[Guest]

MakoMike

With all due respect, and please don't take this the wrong way, blaming power plants is nonsense. This was a theory heavily pushed by an anti-nuke, enviro scam artist who managed to get some press in the publications (I don't think this one) a couple years ago. Yes, water cooled plant intakes kill fish larvae. But it's important to remember that only a very, very small fraction of larvae grow to adult size to start with. If there is a measureable impact on the flounder population, it is small, and certainly localized. It's quite a stretch to say the least to blame Millstone for the lack of flounders on the South Shore.

As for the problem in general, I find it strange that there are very few small fish. My understanding is that overfishing would result in mostly smalls.

Flounder co-existed with much higher numbers of large bass for a very long time, and bunker aren't plentiful every year, so I have trouble blaming the bass.

Cormorants are flounder eating machines. When did they become so numerous? Is there anyplace that isn't loaded with these birds now? They're a prime suspect for me.

There are more seals now but not so many in the sound that we could blame the north shore flounder decline on them.

I wish I knew the answer. One thing's for sure, we should stop fishing them, commercially and recreationally, and give what's left a chance to come back. Extrapolating from the course they're on, they'll be completely wiped out if nothing is done. I'm at a loss to understand why things like porgies are so overmanaged while flounders are left to go to extinction.

 

[614309]

Weird. My username didn't appear on my previous post. Maybe it won't on this one either.

 

[Capt. Marc]

Flounder

Hi,

The problem isn't just LI waters. It's up and down the coast. Natural predation (seals, bass, birds, crabs with an attitude, etc) isn't the problem. Flounder hide in the sand/mud to escape pedators. Those flounder which don't toss enoung sand on their back or move at the wrong time get eaten. It's natural and has been going on forever.

A flounder can't escape a 3' roller gear hopping along the offshore grounds. That's not natural but deadly to all flounder.

A theroy: The largest flounder (3-5lb fish) made up the breeding stock. After spawning, those big fish move back to the offshore grounds. The smaller fish up to 2lbs stick around locally which made up most of the inshore catches 15 years ago. Along come the draggers which decimate the offshore population. The big breeding fish are gone and the smaller ones just don't have the capacity to toss enough eggs into the waters to sustain the fishery. Now those remaining 1/2-1 lb fish from 8-10 years ago are the ones we are seeing now but the numbers are so low the spawning isn't good enough to make a difference and not enough small fish make it from egg to spawning size.

Fishery collapse.

But just my $0.02.

 

[quiknet]

Dohhh! I just started a new discussion on the boating angler board, not knowing this one already existed. Check that one out for more food for thought. I would be willing to bet good money that shutting down the recreational fishery, without enacting any other measures, would not result in a noticeable increase in the amount of flounder. Maybe I'll start seling bumper stickers that say, SAVE THE FLOUNDER, KILL A CORMORANT.

 

[Scalawag]

Why was my post deleted??

Was wondering why it was deleted, was there a snafu or something I said?
Thanks, Alan

 

[Capt. Marc]

Flounder

quicknet.

Not too crazy about the bumber sticker. If there is a commorand problem, the problem isn't commorands, its the lack of commarand predators.

If there was an explosion of fluke, would you put up a bumper sticker save the bass (fluke may eat babay bass), kill the fluke?

We are the problem.

Capt. Marc

 

[schoolman]

I agree, we are the problem, recs and commercials alike. Remember how the 200 mi. limit was the answer to our fish population problems. Well, as it turns out we could have nameed it the Greed Act ("Greed is good"....ala Michael Douglas in Wall Street). All we did was rename the culprit from the Portuguese, Russians, etc. to us, the Americans. I laugh out loud and quietly cry sometimes when I read the postings about the current "good" flounder catches. Let's get real. 19 flounder is not good when caught by 25 anglers. T There are so few to be had and yet we continue to decimate the population. We need an authority to tell us that we can not take them until they return to our waters. I honestly can't by into any of the cormorant, power plant, striped bass, and seal theories. With the exception of nuclear plants, I remember them all being around when I was a kid and the flatfish populations were thriving and flourishing. We are the problem....we, homosapiens of the fishing kind

 

[schoolman]

I agree, we are the problem, recs and commercials alike. Remember how the 200 mi. limit was the answer to our fish population problems. Well, as it turns out we could have named it the Greed Act ("Greed is good"....ala Michael Douglas in Wall Street). All we did was rename the culprit from the Portuguese, Russians, etc. to us, the Americans. I laugh out loud and quietly cry sometimes when I read the postings about the current "good" flounder catches. Let's get real. 19 flounder is not good when caught by 25 anglers. That means 6 or more (probably more when you consider the high hook sharpies) did not catch and paid close to $50 to do so. There are so few winter flounder to be had and yet we continue to decimate the population by fishing for the few that are left. We need an authority (NMFS or DEC) to tell us that we can not take them until they return to our waters. I frankly can't buy into any of the cormorant, power plant, striped bass, and seal theories. With the exception of nuclear plants, I remember them all being around when I was a kid and the flatfish populations were thriving and flourishing. We are the problem....we, the greedy and foolish homosapiens of the fishing variety.

Striped bass recovered, why not the flounder? Let's not wait too long. Do something NOW!!!