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3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
TOP 20

Position Weight Name
#2 16.35 RUSS MARTIN
#6 14.96 CLIFF DEAN
#7 14.73 JAMES SPRAY
#8 14.71 JAMES QUINN
#9 14.48 NED GLAVAN
#11 14.46 GARY JORDAN
#13 14.35 RICK ROSS
#14 13.93 PHIL PERA
#17 13.55 JEFF OLSEN

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293 Posts
#3 and #4 look mighty suspect...

I'll refer to my earlier post on another thread. These two people have had prize winning fish TOGETHER in prior years. If you don't believe me, go back and check the records. The odds of this happening on the same boat (they are husband and wife) in multiple years are extremely remote. Does anyone believe that this is legitimate?

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62 Posts

This is just my OPINION of what OTHERS might be THINKING. I AM NOT ACCUSSING ANYONE of cheating or doing anything wrong! This is not MY opinion.

Dr. Fish, some would think that Porgyman is 110% correct. They would say that the odds are 150,000 to 1 that ONE person could catch unusually large fish YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR in this event!!!! IMAGINE TWO ON THE SAME BOAT!!!! HA!!! What a JOKE they would say it is!!!!!!!!!!

BLUEFISHMASTER if you are reading this, some people would want you to open up your eyes!! They would ask

"When are you and the rest of your committee going to get wise and realize how impossible this truly is????"

They don't care how good anyone is. You want the truth, MANY would probably say that this is the truth...

There are only TWO ways to catch bluefish that are large enough to win a prize. The first is to either troll or chunk BLINDLY. This requires a great deal of LUCK that is near impossible to duplicate year after year. The 2nd way is to liveline bunker to blues that are feeding on schools of bunker. This requires more skill than luck. BUT, and the BIG "BUT" is that it ONLY works when the blues and bunker are not SPOOKED by boats and anglers.

The problem ANYONE who is on the water will tell you is that with over 5,000 anglers, there NEVER is a time or place during the tournament where one can count on the blues feeding on bunker WITHOUT a TRILLION other boats & anglers jumping all over them, running through the schools of fish and RUINING ANY CHANCE of feeding a live-lined bunker to a hungry GIANT blue!!!!!!!!!!!

I tell you this; so many people are members of so many organizations and MANY might have been wanting to BOYCOTT this event because they might feel that nobody on the WICC staff seems to MIND what is going on. Many might think that it's almost like these people are CONNECTED to somebody on the tournament committee who is making sure that no attention is given to the fact that they are breaking the odds. And they would say that those odds are indeed OVER 150,0000 to ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So many might feel that they aren't as STUPID as the bunker we use for bait. With over 5,000 anglers out there, they had every square foot of that Sound covered with eyes and ears. Also, don't you think that common sense to MANY anglers who fish locally near those who break the odds are aware that those individuals are ALWAYS finding the larger fish therefore they FOLLOW them from the time they hit the water until the time they return to the dock??? How come NOBODY can step forward and say, YES, I tried following them so they could lead me to the fish and I saw them catch these giant blues while I lacked the skill to do the same?


Most of us could not catch a SEA ROBIN in the middle of a T-Storm during the tournament WITHOUT two or more boats seeing, hearing and KNOWING what I caught!!

Some would question how come even the REAL local sharpies who are retired and fish the same waters EVERY DAY are complaining that their fishing spots and techniques can never produce during the tournament because they require TRANQUILITY and a STEALTH approach that IS NOT POSSIBLE with the WICC tournament crowds????

Next year someone might borrow a friend's high-tech digital video camera. It might be one of those brand new ones that have NIGHT VISION. They might try to film a movie and call it "I TOLD YOU SO". Maybe once you see a VIDEO TAPE you'll understand our FUSTRATION.

If so many of you KNOW these people, then surely you know where they fish. You tell us, WHY ARE THERE NO WITTNESSES?????????

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150 Posts
hey doc, my dad weighed in a 12.2 & 12.75 in the spot I told you far as cheaters go...If anyone does cheat and beat a lie detector then I hope they realize that they didn't really win.Unfortunately the honest guys would be getting screwed but that seems to be the way of the future!!

· Banned
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Thanks for the feedback. I punched in the numbers Friday morning. It was over a 30 mile run but still well within my range. I just never had a decent window of opportunity time-wise with the weather. Late Saturday afternoon looked so tempting, but I had a hunch that it was only the "calm before the storm" and indeed there were severe T-Storms and heavy rain a few hours later. When you get a chance, PM me with info on any good marinas in that area that you know of. I think next year I will stay overnight. Thursday into Saturday or Sunday.

· Banned
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sandshark & Porgyman...

Interesting thoughts. I don't know the history of any of the winners (as far as who won what and how many times/years in a row). I will say once again as I've posted before that I tend to agree with the fact that most of the effective techniques that our "sharpies" utilize simply cannot be half as effective with all of the interference from the boat traffic combined with the competition from other anglers.

I've fished countless hours for blues in the Western Sound from the City Island bridge to Huntington on both sides of the Sound. Manhasset Bay, Hen's & Chickens, The Cows, Execution Rocks, Stepping Stones, etc... Been there, done that. I can tell you that these locations and others around the Western Sound can be incredible for blues and bass in the early morning and late evening hours when there are no other anglers or boats around. But every year during this tournament, it seems like any location with a name is overfished and basically a waste of time to even attempt to visit.

I can also tell you that to fish a "nervous" bunker school that has alligator blues under them does require the kind of careful quiet approach described by Sandshark.

Combine this with the fact that bluefish blitzes are extremely unpredicable and I can understand why there is a large cloud of doubt over who caught what, where they caught it, how they caught it, how often someone is "that lucky", etc...

Without knowing anyone's history, I can tell you that often our first reaction to success that appears to be "against all odds" is DOUBT. Many times that doubt is wrong. Then again, many times our "gut feeling" is correct (some of us also live by the philosophy that if it "looks like a rat, smells like a rat, walks like a rat and sounds like a rat, it must be a rat...") I don't have answer here for you because only each winner knows what he/she did or did not catch. Keep in mind that anything is possible. Maybe some anglers have learned how/where/when to fish with all the crowds. My theory was that the fish go deep to hide. But it's yet to work for me (so back to the drawing board).

If it is indeed true that a select few individuals out of the thousands who enter have been consistently winning prizes year after year, then all I can say is that if they are indeed winning fair and square, that they are truly making the 5,000 or so rest of us anglers look like we are true fools who don't have a clue as to what we are doing.

Then again, if there are cheaters amongst us, just take a look at Mr. Bocchino's name up there because he represents each and every one of us die-hards who never give up year after year (this was his 18th time fishing the tournament). Despite all of this potential controversy, his perseverance took him to the top.

I was reading the tournament rules and I was surprised to see that it did not say that previous grand prize winners were excluded. In many tournaments this large, they often exclude previous 1st place winners from being permitted to enter again. This is to give others a chance to take the top honors as opposed to a select group of experts/professionals.

Finally, let me end this with some questions...

If anyone reading this has a theory on how/where/when some of the winning fish were caught if you believe that they were not caught in compliance with the contest rules, let's hear your theories.

Also, as Sandshark suggested, surely there must be someone out there who wittnessed some of the larger fish being caught. Let's hear from you what you saw, when, where, how, etc...

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3,127 Posts

I thought a lie detector test was part of the contest for top winners.If so how many top winners must take it.It would be interesting to see where the cutoff point is and who won right after that

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1,022 Posts
the reason they place every year is that they are very good fisherman and i saw the fish very much alive after they caught it. why do you think i started pulling wire with parachutes the second day. i fished the same area and had alot of action while other boats who were chunking had zilch. so if you want a witness here is one. i think next year i am gonna change my tactics and fish the same area with wire.

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491 Posts
flybyme. got it right

although i do not participate in the tournament i know a few guys who place in the money frequently.


as doc fish mentioned the tecniques used by most fisherman will not work well in the crowded conditions caused by the tournament.
so going out and doing what you did the previous week to catch blues will not work under tournment conditions.

since most fisherman are creatures of habit, that is what they do, the usual.
and that is why they don't score well.

the fisherman that are sharp enought to adapt to the tournament conditions are the ones that score well.
sometimes that means fishing with gear or methods that one would normally not choose to use.

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62 Posts
Now you claim the larger fish were trolled on wire! What a joke!


Seeing a fish alive is still no proof that that it was caught in the Sound and DURING the tournament!!!

Now you claim that the fish were caught with wire! If you are so certain, then why don't you post here EXACTLY what DEEP WATER you claim they trolled these fish! I know you won't because I can guarantee you that a dozen or more anglers will jump on here an state how they were in the EXACT spot you claim they caught them and they NEVER saw a boat troll through on wire and catch fish!

WOW. I thought these fish were supposed to have been caught in the middle of the night on FRIDAY in complete darkness. I didn't know trolling with wire worked at night!!!

Megalodon, same thing, if you claim that someone CONSISTENTLY wins prizes then be so kind to post the location of that mystery deep water that 6,000 other anglers seem not to know about.

· Banned
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh Boy!

I had a feeling that this was going to get interesting. I just received about a dozen messages from anglers who just grew very suspicious when they read that some of the prize fish were claimed to have been caught on the troll using wire.

Some anglers tell me that 15lb+ fish are extremely UNCOMMON on the troll in the Sound because these fish grew so large by from spending night and day with their eyes glued to schools of large bunker waiting for their stomachs to digest enough so that there is room for another fish or two. I'm told that the last thing one of these large fish wants (or needs) to do is chase after a meal (especially when hundreds potential meals are sitting right in front of them).

Another group who responded claim that if such large fish were indeed caught on the troll in deep water that surely there would have been dozens of spectators. I tend to agree with this opinion. I can spot a fish being taken on the troll with wire from a very far distance. There is just no hiding that bent rod or the surface activity from the fish.

Yet another group tell me that trolling blues on wire is efective in the Sound when the fish are stacked-up near and around structure that you can find primarily around the points. The problem they say is that not only were the points and most of the know structure occupied by countless boats who, but that also it's near impossible to duplicate such efforts day after day with very large fish, nevermind year after year with consistency.

So what do you think?

Are these anglers just sore losers or is their any validity to their arguements?

Personally, as I stated before, I had a hunch that the extra boat traffic caused the fish to run deep and hide. But as I also stated, I have not had luck during the tournament chunking, trolling or jigging any significantly large blues from the deeper waters where I thought they should've been found hiding from the boat traffic.

What's your opinion/experience?

· Premium Member
1,874 Posts
I simply don?t see what the problem is with people placing in tournaments year after year. In the 13-years of covering the fishing scene here in NY I have seen numerous cases where anglers are repeat winners in every type of tournament from flounder to tuna. It happens because they know what they?re doing, and they consistently catch fish. That?s why we call them sharpies.

I think we all need to admit that there are people out there that catch more fish than others. You?ve heard the old saying ? 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish ? well it?s true! Just because you were fishing the same area without a bite, doesn?t necessarily mean the boat next to you isn?t catching.

And just because you didn?t see the angler in a boat next to you land a fish, doesn?t mean he?s not catching. I can tell you first hand that there?s been plenty of times I?m on a fish and you would never know it unless you were in the boat with me, and sometime they don?t even know about it until it?s in the boat.

It seems very logical to me that anglers fishing the same boat would catch two fish in the money, as there?s a good chance they located a school of big fish. Let?s face they don?t usually swim alone and when you land one it?s obvious that there?s more in the area.

I personally feel that we should be learning from anglers that win these tournaments, not looking for ways to discredit them.

· Registered
2,481 Posts
Here's my question?

Can one person claim more than one prize. I.E. Lets just say that a couple is out fishing one driving the boat one fishing if the same person lands two heavy fish and both would be in the money could that person be both 3rd and 4th place? I'm not that familiar with the rules because I refuse to contend with alot of these weekend warriors during tournaments but if the rule states that one angler can only claim one prize then I would be much more suspicious of the results because as far as I'm concerned if I pick up a rod and set the hook then hand it off to someone to reel it in then I caught the fish. Just something to think about because I can't tell you how many times I have hit the fish then let the guest's on my boat real it up.

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491 Posts

just because as an angler you are unaware of how effective a certain technique is, doesnt mean it wont work.

also just because you try the same technique and it does not work for you,
this does not mean it will not work for somebody else at the same time and location as you , maybe he just knows how to do it better than you.

lets put our thinking caps on.
if you are on a party boat fishing for blues, 2 anglers fishing, one is drifting out the bait with a small shot, the other fishing the bottom with 10 ounces of lead, who do you think is going to catch the larger fish ?
guy fishing on the bottom usually.

so why is it such a surprise to you that on a super crowded weekend on the water, the big blues are on the bottom ?
do you expect them ontop dodging all the boat traffic ?
they are down deep.

as for trolling, well you can troll fast and you can troll slow.

slow trolling with wire is a sure way of hooking big blues. you are putting the "lure" where they are.

you can have the best bait and lures in the world,
if they are being fished at the wrong depth,
they are USELESS.

another reason for trolling during the tournaments it allows you to cover more ground especially when the fish are broken up due to all the boat traffic.

as for location, well that is where we seperate the men from the boys.
most of the "pro's" i know end up fishing deepwater blackfish drops for bluefish during these tournaments.

the usual spots are usually covered with a floatilla of boats and they are dumping tons of chunks in to the water.
why would a bluefish need to eat your hooked bait when there are tons of chunks floating around for the taking.
part of the reason bait does not work as well during these times.

as for seeing other boats catching fish, you are far off the mark.
we have fished many times in crowded conditions and have bailed the fish without a single boat having any idea of what was going on.
you point the rod right at the water and fight the fish from the reel.
if you saw me doing this, you would think i am just reeling up my line from the bottom. when you are not looking i just lift the fish into the boat.
nobody knows.
and the people who do this are very good at doing this, because they know you are watching and just waiting for a fish to be caught so you can run over and mug them.
so these fisherman have developed a way to fool the lookers.
happens all the time, and at ports all along the coast.
this can be done with any inshore fish.

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491 Posts

not sure how much fishing experience you have,
but just handing somebody the numbers to a spot is not the answer.

you can go to that same spot, do things differently than the others who fished there and you can catch nothing.
does that mean there is not large blues there to catch ? NO
just because your technique or skill level is not up to the current conditions you have to fish in, does not mean there are no fish there.
it just means you can't catch them.

like george said above , 10% of the guys catch 90% of the fish,
there is a reason for this.

they just do not concentrate on the "spot" or what technique worked yesterday.

they adapt to what is going on today.

fish change their habits often, what worked for you yesterday does not mean it will work today.

the spot you fished yesterday with a NW wind will not produce the same today if there is a S wind.

these and many many other factors come into play.
those that have the experience and knowledge to understand this usually do the best.

i suggest that most fisherman fail in their fishing expectations due to their inability to adapt to the current conditions.
many will just use techniques that have worked in the past and stubbornly stick with them when they just are not working on that day.

those that are able to adapt, will always do better.
i have seen this all over the world
both inshore and offshore.

as for your comments about live bluefish, i do agree with you.
if a person wanted to precatch a fish and store it in a large baitpen, it is very easy to do. i think the lie detector test might be a tougher nut to crack.

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2,127 Posts
Love the Insanity

This is the greatest thread I have seen on Nor'East in a long time. 1st off let me start out by addressing DoctorFishes informal survey who said "Some anglers tell me that 15lb+ fish are extremely UNCOMMON on the troll in the Sound because these fish grew so large by from spending night and day with their eyes glued to schools of large bunker waiting for their stomachs to digest enough so that there is room for another fish or two. I'm told that the last thing one of these large fish wants (or needs) to do is chase after a meal (especially when hundreds potential meals are sitting right in front of them). Are you kidding me or what. Again we have anglers predisposing that Blue Fish think. They are eating machines. If you are lucky enough to put a spoon, umbrella rig parachute, old shiny shoe ....whatever in front of them when they are hungry....FISH ON. I took my brothers out on a charter out of CT. In the late summer a few years ago. We were bobbing and weaving between lobster pots and fishing boats at sunset. We were trolling umbrella rigs on wire line and were landing double 12# + fish and some 15 # thrown in as singles.

Great thread keep the fish guts flying.

· Banned
3,311 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·

I hear what you are saying and I am not defending or supporting the opinions of others about what does or does not work. I will say that these anglers are speaking about the effectiveness of the troll in locations that literally have acres of mature adult bunker. I and many of you can surely think of times when the fishing was poor with artificials simply because there was too much bait in the water. From that perspective, I can understand where they were coming from.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not conducting any formal or imformal surveys. As a moderator I receive emails and private messages from countless experienced anglers all the time who feel they need to voice their opinion. They send me their messages rather than posting them on these forums because they can't stand dealing with the bashing and negative responses from those with opposing views. I know exactly how they feel and I really can't blame them for not wanting to expose themselves to the harrassment.

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2,127 Posts

Come on it's 2002, it's the net. What is going to happe? their PC is going to cry? If they have an opinion....voice it. That is what makes this medium the best thing since the US Post Office. And it is even better because it is spontaneous. Again I love the brutal honesty of this thread. It's great. We need more tournaments. Over time we will weed out the Sharpies and the BS. If the Husband and Wife team cracked the code on big Bluefish my hats off to them. Maybe they will write an article for Noreast some day and share the wealth. If they are a scam may their souls be eaten slowly in **** by a bunch of ravenous Blues down under.

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3 Posts
WICC Results

Congrats to all winning angles. For the people who think that there is something not right with the tournament winners, If you have read the rules 9.2.g any contestant can challenge the official winners list must be presented in person (not in a chat room )no later then 4:00pm on wednesday august 28 2002 at wicc 600 am radio 2 lafayette square bridgeport ct 06604 Anonymous challenges will be disregarded. I have to say that knowledge is every thing. I have fished in many B.A.S.S tournaments and can happly say that it some times luck but more important skill that cathes fish.I have been out fished by anglers using the same bait as I. It boils done to skill. How to read the water the fish finder and a lot of practice. As far as the winner's go this year, no one challenges them then they won. I was not able to fish this year the first one in 15 years that I have missed do to the birth of my daughter. So again congrats to all the winners. And for the people who thinks it is not right challange them next year. What time was there fish weight in I would think that something is not right if the weighed it in a 12:30am saturday. I thought, I heard(only rumor)that one of the top 5 fish was weighed in at captains cove? You would think that some one out there was there when the fish got weighed in.
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