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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Breaking News - 5 Minutes Ago

Russian Tanks, Aircraft & Ground Troops Cross the Border into Georgia
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TSKHINVALI, Georgia - Georgian troops launched a major military offensive Friday to regain control over the breakaway province of South Ossetia, prompting a furious response from Russia ? which vowed retaliation and sent a column of tanks into the region.


More than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers were at the base last month to teach combat skills to Georgian troops.


Hopefully they are no longer in the country or this has the potential for getting bad real quick.

This post edited by wader 06:40 PM 04/05/2009
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Georgian officials asserted that Russian warplanes had attacked Georgian forces and civilians in the capital, and that airports in four Georgian cities outside the rebel area had been hit.

Shota Utiashvili, an official at the Georgian Interior Ministry, said they included the Vaziany military base outside of Tblisi, the Georgian capital, a military base in Marneuli, and airports in the cities of Delisi and Kutaisi.

?We are under massive attack,? he said.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin declared that ?war has started? and President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia accused Russia of a ?well-planned invasion," saying he had mobilized Georgia?s military reserves.

There are over 2,000 American citizens in Georgia, Pentagon officials said. Among them are about 130 trainers ? mostly American military personnel but with about 30 Defense Department civilians ? in the country assisting the Georgian military with preparations for deployments to Iraq.

This post edited by wader 05:23 PM 08/08/2008
 

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DamnFish wrote:
Nice timing - COMMIE PINKOS

At the start of the Olympics - A time when all war was to be halted

Archie !!! is that really You ?????
;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
TBILISI, Georgia - Russia expanded its bombing blitz to the Georgian capital, deployed ships off the coast and, a Georgian official said, sent tanks from the separatist region of South Ossetia into Georgian territory, heading toward a border city before being turned back Sunday.

Russia also claimed its forces sank a Georgian missile boat that was trying to attack Russian ships in the Black Sea, news agencies reported.

U.S.-allied Georgia called a unilateral cease-fire ? "We are not crazy," said President Mikhail Saakashvili ? and claimed its troops were retreating Sunday from the disputed province of South Ossetia in the face of Russia's far superior firepower. Russia said the soldiers were "not withdrawing but regrouping" and refused to recognize a truce.

He said Russia had entered his country with a force bigger than "the tank force that went into Afghanistan in 1979 or Czechoslovakia in 1968."

Heard something on the radio today - only caught part of it - that French & British warships were heading toward the area to test the blockade.
This could really get out of control - FAST.

Russia continues to mobilize & move troops & tanks toward the Georgian border.

some video

This post edited by wader 05:50 PM 08/10/2008
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
just scrolled across the bottom of the TV screen & now being covered on Fox News

Breaking News: Russian warplanes have just struck the base where the US Military Training Advisors are Stationed
 

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It is doubtful that the US will do anything

What the Russians just did is, for the first time since the fall of the Soviet Union, they have taken a decisive military action and imposed a military reality,? said George Friedman, chief executive of Stratfor, a geopolitical analysis and intelligence company. ?They?ve done it unilaterally, and all of the countries that have been looking to the West to intimidate the Russians are now forced into a position to consider what just happened.?

For the Bush administration, the choice now becomes whether backing Georgia ? which, more than any other former Soviet republic has allied with the United States ? on the South Ossetia issue is worth alienating Russia at a time when getting Russia?s help to rein in Iran?s nuclear ambitions is at the top of the United States? foreign policy agenda.

Russia?s emerging aggressiveness is now also timed with America?s preoccupation with Iraq and Afghanistan, and the looming confrontation with Iran. These counterbalancing considerations mean that Moscow is in the driver?s seat, administration officials acknowledged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Good article & propably pretty close to the truth - however that doesn't mean we can't get drawn in accidently.

The Russians had to know those advisors were based there. If they where hit/killed it will be viewed as having been intentional.

Another thing to keep in mind.........

We are right now flying back to Georgia the 2,000 troops they had stationed in Iraq. I have to believe - there is a USAF escort.

Will the Russains want those troops to arrive?
What happens if they try to stop them or harrass the flight?



This post edited by wader 10:59 PM 08/10/2008
 

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Since Georgia has requested a cease fire - which so far has been ignored by Russia - won?t the presence of additional Georgian troops prove meaningless??

I agree that if Russia chooses to attack Georgian troops while still under the protective wing of the US then all bets are off.
Then anything can happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Swarms of Russian jets bomb Georgian targets

Putin criticized the United States for airlifting Georgian troops back home from Iraq on Sunday at Georgia's request.
"It's a pity that some of our partners instead of helping are in fact trying to get in the way," Putin said at a Cabinet meeting. "I mean among other things the United States airlifting Georgia's military contingent from Iraq effectively into the conflict zone."

Russia has sent 20,000 troops and 500 tanks into Georgia

Russia, which has already moved battleships to the Black Sea and said it has sunk a Georgian navy vessel, is preparing to deploy 9,000 troops to bolster its forces inside a second separatist Georgian region, Abkhazia, a military spokesman was quoted as saying by Interfax.

Last night I watched the news from Washington, the capitol
The Russians escaped while we weren't watching them, like Russians do

This post edited by wader 10:39 AM 08/11/2008
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Full McCain statement, including his suggested responses, after the jump.

"Americans wishing to spend August vacationing with their families or watching the Olympics may wonder why their newspapers and television screens are filled with images of war in the small country of Georgia. Concerns about what occurs there might seem distant and unrelated to the many other interests America has around the world. And yet Russian aggression against Georgia is both a matter of urgent moral and strategic importance to the United States of America.

"Georgia is an ancient country, at the crossroads of Eastern Europe and Central Asia, and one of the world?s first nations to adopt Christianity as an official religion. After a brief period of independence following the Russian revolution, the Red Army forced Georgia to join the Soviet Union in 1922. As the Soviet Union crumbled at the end of the Cold War, Georgia regained its independence in 1991, but its early years were marked by instability, corruption, and economic crises.

"Following fraudulent parliamentary elections in 2003, a peaceful, democratic revolution took place, led by the U.S.-educated lawyer Mikheil Saakashvili. The Rose Revolution changed things dramatically and, following his election, President Saakashvili embarked on a series of wide-ranging and successful reforms. I?ve met with President Saakashvili many times, including during several trips to Georgia.

"What the people of Georgia have accomplished ? in terms of democratic governance, a Western orientation, and domestic reform ? is nothing short of remarkable. That makes Russia?s recent actions against the Georgians all the more alarming. In the face of Russian aggression, the very existence of independent Georgia ? and the survival of its democratically-elected government ? are at stake.

"In recent days Moscow has sent its tanks and troops across the internationally recognized border into the Georgian region of South Ossetia. Statements by Moscow that it was merely aiding the Ossetians are belied by reports of Russian troops in the region of Abkhazia, repeated Russian bombing raids across Georgia, and reports of a de facto Russian naval blockade of the Georgian coast. Whatever tensions and hostilities might have existed between Georgians and Ossetians, they in no way justify Moscow?s path of violent aggression. Russian actions, in clear violation of international law, have no place in 21st century Europe.

"The implications of Russian actions go beyond their threat to the territorial integrity and independence of a democratic Georgia. Russia is using violence against Georgia, in part, to intimidate other neighbors ? such as Ukraine ? for choosing to associate with the West and adhering to Western political and economic values. As such, the fate of Georgia should be of grave concern to Americans and all people who welcomed the end of a divided of Europe, and the independence of former Soviet republics. The international response to this crisis will determine how Russia manages its relationships with other neighbors. We have other important strategic interests at stake in Georgia, especially the continued flow of oil through the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which Russia attempted to bomb in recent days; the operation of a critical communication and trade route from Georgia through Azerbaijan and Central Asia; and the integrity and influence of NATO, whose members reaffirmed last April the territorial integrity, independence, and sovereignty of Georgia.

"Yesterday Georgia withdrew its troops from South Ossetia and offered a ceasefire. The Russians responded by bombing the civilian airport in Georgia?s capital, Tblisi, and by stepping up its offensive in Abkhazia. This pattern of attack appears aimed not at restoring any status quo ante in South Ossetia, but rather at toppling the democratically elected government of Georgia. This should be unacceptable to all the democratic countries of the world, and should draw us together in universal condemnation of Russian aggression.

"Russian President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin must understand the severe, long-term negative consequences that their government?s actions will have for Russia?s relationship with the U.S. and Europe. It is time we moved forward with a number of steps.

"The United States and our allies should continue efforts to bring a resolution before the UN Security Council condemning Russian aggression, noting the withdrawal of Georgian troops from South Ossetia, and calling for an immediate ceasefire and the withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgian territory. We should move ahead with the resolution despite Russian veto threats, and submit Russia to the court of world public opinion.

"NATO?s North Atlantic Council should convene in emergency session to demand a ceasefire and begin discussions on both the deployment of an international peacekeeping force to South Ossetia and the implications for NATO?s future relationship with Russia, a Partnership for Peace nation. NATO?s decision to withhold a Membership Action Plan for Georgia might have been viewed as a green light by Russia for its attacks on Georgia, and I urge the NATO allies to revisit the decision.

"The Secretary of State should begin high-level diplomacy, including visiting Europe, to establish a common Euro-Atlantic position aimed at ending the war and supporting the independence of Georgia. With the same aim, the U.S. should coordinate with our partners in Germany, France, and Britain, to seek an emergency meeting of the G-7 foreign ministers to discuss the current crisis. The visit of French President Sarkozy to Moscow this week is a welcome expression of transatlantic activism.

"Working with allied partners, the U.S. should immediately consult with the Ukrainian government and other concerned countries on steps to secure their continued independence. This is particularly important as a number of Russian Black Sea fleet vessels currently in Georgian territorial waters are stationed at Russia?s base in the Ukrainian Crimea.

"The U.S. should work with Azerbaijan and Turkey, and other interested friends, to develop plans to strengthen the security of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline.

"The U.S. should send immediate economic and humanitarian assistance to help mitigate the impact the invasion has had on the people of Georgia.

Our united purpose should be to persuade the Russian government to cease its attacks, withdraw its troops, and enter into negotiations with Georgia. We must remind Russia?s leaders that the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world require their respect for the values, stability and peace of that world. World history is often made in remote, obscure countries. It is being made in Georgia today. It is the responsibility of the leading nations of the world to ensure that history continues to be a record of humanity?s progress toward respecting the values and security of free people.

"Thank you."

McCain warns Russians of "severe, long-term negative consequences"
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
X


TBILISI (Reuters) - Georgia appealed for international intervention on Monday and pulled its battered forces back to defend the capital, as Russian troops moved further into its territory, ignoring Western pleas to halt.

"The Georgian army is retreating to defend the capital. The Government is urgently seeking international intervention to prevent the fall of Georgia," a Georgian statement said.

President Mikheil Saakashvili said Russian forces had taken control of Georgia's main east-west route, effectively bisecting the country. He urged Georgians to stay home and not panic.

Moscow snubbed a plea from the Group of Seven (G7) industrial powers for a ceasefire. It said Georgia had not kept a promise to halt fighting and was shelling the Russian-held region of South Ossetia where the conflict began last Thursday.

A feeling of uneasiness pervaded Tbilisi as for the first time in four nights, city streets were largely empty, with no evening demonstration by the president's supporters.

"We are working with an international community, but all we got so far are just words, statements, moral support, humanitarian aid," Saakashvili said in a televised address. "But we need more -- we want them to stop this barbaric aggressor."

He called for an emergency session of parliament on Tuesday.

"The situation in Georgia is extremely difficult as Russia is using all its resources to occupy the country," he said, referring to what he said was the capture of a major road.

A Reuters witness saw Georgian helicopter gunships bombing targets near the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali, sending dark smoke billowing into the air. A second reporter heard heavy artillery bombardments on the road north of the wrecked town.


This post edited by wader 05:21 PM 08/11/2008
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
now that things MAYBE settling down..

Russian military stronger, but still far from Cold War peak

WASHINGTON ? Russia's first foreign war since Soviet troops stormed into Afghanistan nearly three decades ago is showcasing a resurgent military that's trying to overcome years of decline after the breakup of the Soviet Union .

Russia's oil wealth and Kremlin leader Vladimir Putin's ambition to return his country to its position as a world power have fueled the buildup. But analysts are quick to point out that Russia has picked on a weakling in its invasion of neighboring Georgia and is still a long way from developing a world-class military.

"They are still, by no means, back," said Stephen Blank , a professor at the Strategic Studies Institute of the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle, Pa. "What they were able to do is take out a small conventional force like Georgia ."

Nevertheless, television images of Russian troops and tanks pressing into Georgia provoked reminders of Soviet military might and Cold War invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev ordered a halt to the five-day-old conflict Tuesday, although Georgian leaders said the Russian attacks continued.

Although Russian defense spending is a small fraction of that of the United States ? roughly $30 billion a year compared with more than $500 billion ? the country's nuclear-equipped military is vastly improved from the early and mid-1990s, when soldiers foraged for food in potato fields and officers often had to hold second jobs to provide for their families.

"The Russian military pretty much went into free-fall in the early 1990s," recalled Steven Pifer , who was the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 1998 to 2000 and is now a visiting fellow at The Brookings Institution , a center-left research center in Washington .

After the Soviet Union broke apart in 1991, Russia's military expenditures dropped to one-tenth of the Soviet Union's military budgets during the preceding decade, according to GlobalSecurity.org, an online military research site. Spending on weapons declined by 75 percent.

After Putin became president in 2000, the former KGB spy embarked on a military buildup as oil production boosted Russia's economy by an average of 26 percent each year. Putin has since become prime minister after serving two terms as president, and he remains a driving force behind Russia's military policies.

The Defense Ministry launched an eight-year, $189 billion plan last year to build a new generation of intercontinental missiles, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers and radars and make other upgrades. Russia also is improving the training, pay, benefits and treatment of soldiers, many of whom notoriously have been subjected to bullying and harassment by superiors.

Thousands of Russian soldiers received combat experience through two conflicts in the breakaway republic of Chechnya. Additionally, the Russian military leaders behind the Georgia attacks apparently studied the NATO air campaign over Kosovo and Operation Iraqi Freedom, Nathan Hodge , a land-warfare specialist for Jane's Defense Week, said Tuesday in an analysis of the Russian-Georgian conflict.

"The Russian incursion into Georgian territory? and the air campaign against Georgian military targets? show a confident Russian military," Hodge said. "Clearly, the Russian military is still capable of launching complex, combined arms operations." Combined arms operations employ ground troops, air power, armor, artillery and other tools to achieve a common objective.

The Russian strikes into Georgia , which was once part of the Soviet Union , appeared designed to reverse Georgia's attempts to modernize and rearm, Hodge said. Georgia's $1 billion defense budget is much smaller than Russia's , but the smaller country nevertheless had developed a small, well-armed force with updated equipment, Hodge said.

Retired Col. Christopher Langton , an analyst at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies , called the Russian attack a "classic Soviet-style invasion" featuring tanks, artillery, armored personnel carriers and aerial assaults. In a display of 21st-century military tactics, the campaign also included cyber-warfare that hacked into Georgian government computer systems.

Other analysts said Russia's dominance of its smaller adversary wasn't an accurate test of Moscow's military strength, noting that it was relatively easy for Russian troops to move across the border from their own country without the need for a long supply chain.

"If we're talking about a theaterwide war in Europe , it would be a very different picture," Blank said.

According to the Center for Defense Information , Russia ranks ninth in military spending? the United States , China and the United Kingdom are first, second and third, respectively? and has about 1 million active troops, compared with about 1.4 million for the U.S. military.

One ominously distinctive feature? particularly with the Kremlin's increasingly bellicose rhetoric toward Washington and other Western governments? is Russia's stature as the second largest nuclear superpower, behind the United States .

Although the two countries are committed to reducing nuclear stockpiles under a 2002 arms agreement, Russia still has an estimated 7,200 nuclear warheads, compared with 5,730 for the United States , according to the Center for Defense Information .

"A military confrontation with Russia would be unlike a confrontation with any other country because they still have a superpower-sized nuclear arsenal," said defense analyst Loren Thompson , an executive with the Lexington Institute , a defense-policy research center in Arlington, Va .

Russia also boasts one of the world's most respected air forces, with sophisticated multi-role warplanes such as the MiG-29 and the Su-27. It's moving aggressively to develop unmanned aircraft similar to those the United States is using in Iraq and Afghanistan .
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
if there was ever that 3 am phone call - this was it

Who would you have had at the helm?
Mr. Obama?
Mr. McCain?

John McCain?s long war on Russia

?While virtually every other world leader called for calm in Georgia last Thursday morning, John McCain did something he?s done many times over his career in public life: He condemned Russia.

Within hours, Barack Obama would sharpen his own statement to include more direct criticism of the regime of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev. Soon after, President Bush and an array of foreign leaders also began to place the full responsibility for the war on Moscow.

Obama, Bush and others made their shifts in tone as the brutal, disproportional nature of Russia?s response began to become clear. But McCain?s confrontational stance on the Caucasus crisis stems from a long, personal skepticism of Russian intentions, one that dates back to the Cold War and which eased only briefly in the early 1990s.

Indeed, McCain, who publicly confronted Putin in Munich last year, may be the most visible ? and now potentially influential ? American antagonist of Russia. What remains to be seen is whether the endgame to the Georgia crisis makes McCain seem prophetic or headstrong and whether his muscular rhetoric plays a role in defining for voters the kind of commander in chief he would be.

What is not in doubt is McCain?s view of Russia. His belief that Moscow harbors dangerous aspirations goes back a long way, as does his fervent view that the only way to quiet the Russian bear is through tough talk and threat of real consequences ? and certainly not through accommodation.

McCain has suggested he sees Russia?s danger to its neighbors through a long historical lens. As far back as 1996, when Russia was near economic ruin and governed by an erratic Boris Yeltsin, he warned of the danger of ?Russian nostalgia for empire.?

That belief has not changed. ?I think it?s very clear that Russian ambitions are to restore the old Russian empire," McCain told local reporters on his bus in Pennsylvania on Monday. "Not the Soviet Union, but the Russian empire."

McCain?s campaign sees the clarity of his stance, and that fact that Obama and others have echoed it, as a political plus, a sign of his seasoning on the international stage. It matches his straight-talking image, and it provides a useful contrast with Bush, whose critics in both parties say he has been naïve about Putin, whose soul he once notoriously claimed to have glimpsed.

McCain often quips that he only sees the letters KGB in Putin?s eyes.

?You have to be clearheaded about that kind of regime,? said Gary Schmitt, a national security expert at the American Enterprise Institute who praised McCain for ?calling a spade a spade? regarding Russia.

?McCain?s been much more clear-sighted than the Bush administration or many of our allies in Europe.?

To critics, McCain?s stance is grandstanding with little effect beyond riling a nuclear power. Though few in either party think Putin is a democrat, many foreign policy thinkers see Russia as fundamentally less dangerous than the Soviet Union. The U.S. also needs to work with Russia on issues from nuclear weapons to Middle East diplomacy. European allies also rely on Moscow increasingly for energy supplies.

?This is a guy who grew up in the Cold War, was a military person and an honorable man, but has not changed his ways of thinking about Russia,? said Jonathan Elkind, a Democrat who served on President Bill Clinton?s National Security Council. The U.S. should be ?explaining with precision what we don't like about their behavior, rather than saying he ?looked into Putin?s eyes and saw KGB.? That has an adolescent quality that gets us exactly nowhere.?

"Speaking directly to the Russians as opposed to in some pugnacious Cold War-fashion is what this modern challenge needs," said Mark Brzezinski, an informal foreign policy adviser to the Obama campaign. "What Russia needs to know is that it will be globally ostracized ? and Barack Obama's global approach is different from the state-to-state balance of power approach that is visible in the McCain talking points."

McCain?s critics and allies agree that his views on Russia are heartfelt and go back decades, to the Reagan years.

"He was a Reaganite in the Cold War ? that was a pro-democracy, anti-Communist approach,? said Robert Kagan, an informal McCain adviser at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace who contrasted McCain with those more eager to support anti-Communist autocrats.

McCain supported Russia?s democratic and capitalist reformers in the early 1990s, and in 1993 he took on the chairmanship of the International Republican Institute, which gets federal funding to promote democratic reform abroad, a post he still holds.

?He was an ardent supporter of Russia?s democratic development? said Steve Biegun, who opened the IRI?s Moscow office and worked with McCain on Capitol Hill later in the decade. ?He was certainly supportive of Yeltsin from the early '90s through the mid-90s.?

That cheerful view of Russia didn?t last long, as McCain became an early public critic of Yeltsin ? and of the Clinton administration?s policy of supporting him. By Feb. 22, 1994, he was opposing the promotion of Clinton?s ambassador to Moscow, Strobe Talbott, to deputy secretary of state.

In a speech on the Senate floor, he accused the Clinton team of overlooking Yeltsin?s flaws and betraying Russian liberals. He faulted Talbott for not ?confronting? the Kremlin, and accused him of yielding to Russian opposition to the expansion of NATO.

?We should make clear to Russia that we appreciate the importance of Russian stability to our own security,? McCain said. ?But we should make equally clear to Russia that we are free to pursue all opportunities for enhancing our security and that of our allies.?

McCain, like many in Congress, also was appalled by Russia?s support for Serbia during the Balkan conflicts of the mid- and late-1990s. He emerged from the period a vocal critic, condemning Russia?s actions in the Balkans and its brutality in the breakaway province of Chechnya.

?[W]e must make abundantly clear to Moscow that we consider this action to be evidence that Russia cannot yet be trusted as good faith partners in preserving European stability,? McCain said during the second Balkan conflict in 1999.

When Yeltsin handed power to Putin from 1999 to 2000, some argued that the technocratic new strongman could stabilize Russia to the benefit of the West. McCain was not among the optimists.

?I suspect that John McCain was made privy to sensitive or classified info that we may have on Putin ? his KGB past, things he?s done,? said Steve Clemons, a liberal foreign policy expert. ?When Putin emerged as this highly capable strongman with KGB networks, I suspect that turned McCain off.?

In 2003, when Putin seized control of a television network that had been critical of him, McCain ?really stepped up his criticism,? said Biegun.

McCain delivered a speech on the ?new authoritarianism? in Russia aimed at waking America up to the threat from ?a country that increasingly appears to have more in common with its Soviet and Czarist predecessors than with the modern state Vladimir Putin claims to aspire to build."

It was, says Biegun, consistent with McCain?s view that Russia shouldn?t be shielded from harsh criticism.

?He?s never put on blinders about Russia,? he said.

In the 1990s, McCain had called for making American financial assistance conditional on Russian behavior. But with oil prices high and the dollar weak, Russia has stopped needing the United States. Putin made that clear in a speech at a security conference in Munich last February, denouncing and mocking U.S. foreign policy with Defense Secretary Robert Gates and McCain in the audience.

McCain delivered the American retort.

?Moscow must understand that it cannot enjoy a genuine partnership with the West so long as its actions, at home and abroad, conflict so fundamentally with the core values of the Euro-Atlantic democracies,? he said.

Now, McCain has led the harsh denunciations of Russia?s invasion of Georgia, though neither he nor any other leader has suggested that the West has any real way to blunt Moscow?s ultimate intentions. He?s also faced the accusation that his encouragement of Georgia?s dramatic defiance of Russia helped trigger the crisis. (A McCain aide dismissed that notion, saying Russia?s provocations forced Georgia?s response.)

McCain?s current foreign policy team, including chief adviser Randy Scheunemann, are largely drawn from the circle of neoconservatives who backed the U.S. invasion of Iraq. To many of them, he?s a more authentic version of President Bush, whose public commitment to the spread of democracy, as they see it, was too often neglected in practice, notably in Russia.

?McCain was there a decade earlier [than Bush], and with greater consistency,? said Kagan

?He?s never put on blinders about Russia,? he said.
McCain?s campaign sees the clarity of his stance, and that fact that Obama and others have echoed it, as a political plus, a sign of his seasoning on the international stage. It matches his straight-talking image, and it provides a useful contrast with Bush, whose critics in both parties say he has been naïve about Putin, whose soul he once notoriously claimed to have glimpsed.

McCain often quips that he only sees the letters KGB in Putin?s eyes.


This post edited by wader 09:16 PM 08/12/2008
 

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yet another conflict we get ourselves into over oil


What seems to be missing in this discussion is the fact that before Russia invaded, Georgia attacked South Ossetia... two wrongs don't make a right but Georgia wasn't right either even though it seems the US pushed them into taking a stand on South Ossetia..

But again, if they had no Oil, would the US even care?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
rhetoric aside - answer the quetion - who would you want to answer the phone?
 

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McCain hates the Russians (he's still fighting the cold war in his head) so I would be worried if he answered and got us into WW3 over Georgian oil...

So I guess anyone other than a senile McCain awaken in the middle of the night would be my answer....



 
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