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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
just wondering what the starting bid would be for a commercial fluke fishing lisense.this is a corporate lisense. if sold you would be allowed to keep 14inch fluke depending what the quota is.im in the all gear catagory which includes hook and line, here is your chance to be a commercial fisherman.hello E C NEWELLMAN im a friend of jimmy s. you work toghter, great thread you tell it the way it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
come on 40 minutes and 45 views no replies.everybody is so quick to bash the commercial guy ,where does that fish you get from your fish mongor gome from. i fish hook and line only and its tough to make a living with the small quotas and the price of fuel.im not asking anyone to feel sorry for me but that is what i chose to do for a living.but did you ever think of where your bunker, spearing, clams, worms,mussells,squid, killies, greencrabs come from , all commercial fisherman.when you guys buy bait your getting it from a commercial guy some way some how.there still some of us that choose this way of living because thats all we know how to do thats the way we were raised. theres alot of commercial things i dont agree with looking at both commercial and rec.i dont think its fair that i can keep a 14 inch fluke and the rec guy can keep a 19-20-21 inch fluke or whatever they make it this year it all sucks.were all in this together so lets all get along.
 

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Actually I get all my bait myself...

Truethfuly if it were up to me all the commercial guys would have to use hook and line only.

To me dropping a net in the water and dragging it isnt fishing...

AS FOR COMMERCIAL FISHING I WILL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU GUYS TO DO IT, IMO I WORK SMART NOT HARD...



This post edited by Russtheman 04:57 AM 01/10/2008
 

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Russtheman wrote:

Truethfuly if it were up to me all the commercial guys would have to use hook and line only.

To me dropping a net in the water and dragging it isnt fishing...

AS FOR COMMERCIAL FISHING I WILL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU GUYS TO DO IT, IMO I WORK SMART NOT HARD...

Hmmm? Oh where to begin??? Russ- have you ever actually been aboard a dragger? I think you might say things a little differently, if you had.
It isn't as easy as you are making it out. I've been fishing for quite a while now(comm'l) and I wouldn't be comfortable running a dragger on my own, unless I had spent some time with someone showing me the different things you have to do if ______ happened.

I'll bet you wouldn't even be able to figure out how to get the doors in the water......;)

As far as any fairness is concerned in the size limits, imagine if everyone out there who wanted to, could actually keep 14" fluke. How long would that season last? A few days? A week? This rule is to prolong your access to these fish, access which the rec universe has slowly but surely manipulated the system to get more and more of, in the interest of "recreation", not in the interest of "gathering food to eat".

Cowkiller- whats the NY daily limit for fluke , with the permit you are offering?
 

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Cowkiller

To a recreational fisherman your license has little or no value.
If a rec. fisherman wanted a few 14" fish for the bbq then it would be cheaper to take the chance and poach a few. The price of the ticket from the DEC will most likely be much less than what you would be selling your fluke permit for.
If a Rec. fisherman has this fluke license does that mean he can sell his catch?

You would have to ask commercial fisherman what it would be worth to them.
 

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price whats that ?

Though the permits are no longer issued they are the only permit that can be sold.
You also forgot that it requires the food fish , along with it.
So you would need both to be valid
.
As far as price that is very tricky right now depending on the Set regulations for 2008 and the future.

It could be as good as gold or bad as rotten apples

Also don?t for get I would not bet that permit will be 100% invoke able in the future so that has to be taken into the picture as well

If you?re posting to prove a point than please make it

If you?re posting to find out a value the permit would only be of value to someone that would be able to utilize with it.

It is a great topic and with the Regs and permit requirements changing every year the NY DEC is closing up every loop hole and truly taking away those wanting to fish for a living

A perfect Example is the new income requirements for the 2008 Foodfish permit
They have made it almost impossible for the young generation to get the permit withthe new income requirements put in place.

Not that anyone with today?s regs would want to start but it seems very strange the NY DEC is closing up these loop holes.

My son was waiting 3 years of working on boats and having all the qualifications for the 2007 permit when he turned 16.

I was told not even to apply for only 3 permits were issued from income on a party/charter income and they were out for 2007.
So then I called and went to apply and now find he won?t qualify for 2008 for they new income is 3 years at 15k and not the 50% of there income combined

Now tell me how many 13-15 year old kids you know that make 15k working of the summer months in the fishing industry.

This is a perfect example of NY DEC trying for some reason to close a dying breed from earning a living.
WHY? Is the real question I liked answered?

Well I spoke with the head honcho on this matter and from what I can see it has to do with money and taxes. I think the next thing will be those that have the permit will have to meet a min. income to keep it in the future.
This is done to make more money for the state. From the horses mouth commercial guys do not declare a true catch value!

So by setting a min income they are guaranteed move income taxes for NY state.

If I had the money myself I would love to take them to court just on principle for the younger generation including my own .
Why should kids have to be denied the chance to get the permit?
To me this is totally unconstitutional 100% denying a 16 year old the chance to a chosen career of his choice . I thought that was the American way land of the free.
Well is more like land of the Lennon law.

Is there any groups some one know of willing to go to bat against this constitutionally injunction?

The only way you will win these days is to take them to court.
It is a shame that people don?t realize the power these agency have taken away from the people today
As told to me by many old timers the more you let them take the more power they have and less of a chance to over turn them.
This is why many of the Comm guys I know have gotten out of this mess of power and regs which seems to have its own agenda for future plans that only time will tell us all

Now back to you question on the value?

HMMM Guess that you can only get that for the time being for if things keep going the way they are headed and they don?t pull the comm. Tickets for fluke and food fish it maybe one of its kind and worth something.

But then again the regs may override that tomorrow

So your question is one that can only be based on the current Regs and requirements to fish.

Good luck in your goal and I love to hear just comment on this one, and if there is a group or lawyer willing to stand up to the dec please contact me on the matter I am all ears

I am not a great writer like EC I babble a lot sorry for that but
I hope you see my point

Thanks
 

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togmaster wrote:
the NY DEC is closing up every loop hole and truly taking away those wanting to fish for a living

So tell us how that differs from what they are trying to do the Recreational Fishery, for those wanting to fish for fun & catch their own dinner? At least they are consistant, no?
 

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I hear you

Billy40 wrote:
togmaster wrote:
the NY DEC is closing up every loop hole and truly taking away those wanting to fish for a living

So tell us how that differs from what they are trying to do the Recreational Fishery, for those wanting to fish for fun & catch their own dinner? At least they are consistant, no?

Billy I hear you 100% but the topic was on comm fish not rec
As far as rec I agree 100% with you but you know that if you start that in this topic it will just lead to the same old heat up as it always does.
 

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Another Fluke permit taking offers

With all the talk of the commercials "Sea Raping" that goes on here these boards, I too have a bunch of permits that you can buy.If you bought my permits you can either go and seek your fortune or if you truly as passioniate as some of you claim, you can then tear my permits up and save some fish. For some of you it could be a worthwhile endevour, one less commercial fisherman and more fish for the rec's. Maybe a bunch of the loudest complainers should get together chip in and buy me out.
 

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off topic

claw1 wrote:
With all the talk of the commercials "Sea Raping" that goes on here these boards, I too have a bunch of permits that you can buy.If you bought my permits you can either go and seek your fortune or if you truly as passioniate as some of you claim, you can then tear my permits up and save some fish. For some of you it could be a worthwhile endevour, one less commercial fisherman and more fish for the rec's. Maybe a bunch of the loudest complainers should get together chip in and buy me out.

Funny but it took one post off the comm topic and now we are back to the comm vs. rec issue

Lets keep this post related to comm only please not looking for whats good for either sector just a simple answer as to what is happening to the comm guy today

Every one of use is in the same boat with regs and laws today and if the comm and rec sector actully could agree you be amazed what may happen

butlets not go there for this post :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
hello tog, to answer your question the permit is a corporate fluke permit that has the foodfish and shipper dealer endorsement. the reason why it can be sold only is because it is corporate not personal.you cannot sell a personal lisense.as far as getting a foodfish lisense you are correct the DEC is making it nearly impossible to obtain one,they are slowley squeezing out the small guys.as far as the quota goes i believe it is 210 lbs a day then it goes to 1000lbs and back to 210 again until spring, last year for the month of july we were only allowed 30lbs a day, during last years season for hook and line fishing in the all gear catorgory the quota never went over 90 lbs a day.
 

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$43,000

Recently paid for a corporate fluke permit. New regs will be a factor in how long it will take to make the money back. Based on friends who fished the whole year last year it will only take 1-2 years to make the money back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
hello trade yes that is correct if you fish hard you can make it back quiclky but it also depends on the quotas this year they are talking about another reduction in the quotas this year, good luck catch em up.
 

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Russtheman wrote:
JR what do they think a real fisherman is? I dont get it.

A gillnetter, a potter/trapper, or a dragger, they can transfer their permits, but I can't....

At a DMF/MFC (marine fisheries commission) meeting the director said Ma. shouldn't allow the transfer of limited entry hook permits, "because it's just a piece of paper", even though every single other permit transfer that has occurred, didn't involve the transfer of a boat or other "tangible" property, contrary to the DMF's claims otherwise.

I only asked for the allowance , because we had some fishermen here who were willing to transfer their permits to folks who needed them at a time when we were closed to sea bass fishing and they had no other source of income until sea bass reopened, 2 months later.

It's sickening how I and other full time hook fishers have been treated by this state, as if we are second class citizens.....:mad:


This post edited by loligo 12:16 PM 01/10/2008
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i agree loligo, its the same here they treat you like garbage, but they know how to take your money every year when you have to renew your permits, this year it cost me $1,100.00 to renew my permits
.ive been writing letters to the DEC about certain fishery issues and they cant even respond to you, i think that is so wrong.did you know that last year they had a lottery to get a foodfish lisense. 27 applicants and they only gave out 18 permits, they used bingo balls with numbers on it if they picked your number you got the permit,how do they get away with determining someones livelyhood, i think it stinks.but they continue to get away with it.if people want to be fisherman that is there choice and how they can deny your rights to fish amazes me.
 
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