NorEast Fishing Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
22,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
NY Times

The New York Times

May 1, 2008
What Would You Drive, if the Taxpayers Paid?
By RAYMOND HERNANDEZ

Representative Anthony D. Weiner, Democrat of Brooklyn and Queens, drives a 2008 Chevrolet Impala, leased for $219 a month. Representative Michael R. McNulty, a Democrat from the Albany area, gets around in a 2007 Mercury Mariner hybrid, a sport utility vehicle, for $816 a month.

?It gets a little better than 25 miles a gallon,? Mr. McNulty said.

Charles B. Rangel, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, is not so caught up in the question of gas mileage. He leases a 2004 Cadillac DeVille for $777.54 a month. The car is 17 feet long with a 300-horsepower engine and seats five comfortably.

?It?s one of the bigger Cadillacs,? Mr. Rangel, of Harlem, said cheerfully this week. ?I?ve got a desk in it. It?s like an airplane.?

Modest or more luxurious, the cars are all paid for by taxpayers. The use of a car ? gas included ? is one of the benefits of being a member of the House of Representatives.

There are few restrictions on what kind of car the members can choose, and there is no limit on how much they can spend. But the benefit can be politically sensitive, given the growing concerns about automobile emissions and an economy that has left many people struggling to pay for the rapidly rising cost of gas, which was averaging $3.63 a gallon nationwide earlier this week.

Not only does the federal government pick up the cost of the lease and the gas, but also general maintenance, insurance, registration fees and excess mileage charges. The perk itself may draw heightened attention in the coming weeks as members of Congress consider proposals to address gas prices, including one to suspend temporarily the federal excise tax on gasoline, 18.4 cents a gallon.

Congressional records show that about 125 members of the House make use of the benefit, which has been in place since at least the 1980s and is part of the allowance provided for their office operations. They include Representatives Charlie Melancon of Louisiana (2007 Chevy Tahoe), Bobby L. Rush of Illinois (2007 Lincoln Navigator) and Alcee L. Hastings of Florida (2006 Infiniti M45).

The Senate does not permit its members to lease cars with public money.

Of the 42 representatives from New York and New Jersey, at least a dozen lease cars, and their choices run the gamut. Some choose not to lease a car, in an effort to avoid yet one more headache.

?There are so many ethical issues people can raise,? said Representative Peter T. King, a Long Island Republican, who stopped leasing a car through his office in 2004. ?I felt it just wasn?t worth the trouble or the aggravation. With the issues that people can raise against you, I just figured it didn?t make sense.?

Members have found themselves under fire in their districts for what their constituents may regard as extravagant tastes or for leasing foreign cars. Before the 2006 election, one Ithaca resident denounced Representative Maurice D. Hinchey?s lease of a BMW 530i to The Binghamton Press & Sun-Bulletin, saying that Mr. Hinchey, a Democrat, ?sticks it to? the taxpayers and American workers. (Mr. Hinchey also leases a 2007 Nissan Altima for $200 a month for his chief of staff.)

In 2007, the House adopted a rule requiring members to choose cars from a list of low-emissions vehicles approved by the Environmental Protection Agency. Asked about their cars over the past week, many New York representatives offered environmental rationales, some more persuasive than others.

Representative Edolphus Towns, a Brooklyn Democrat, said he had begun to take fuel economy into consideration and recently traded in his 2005 Lincoln Town Car (at $845 a month) for a 2008 Lincoln MKX, called a crossover utility vehicle, (at $715 a month).

?I no longer have the big car because of the gas situation,? Mr. Towns said.

It turns out, however, that the Town Car and the MKX get the same gas mileage: about 16 m.p.g. in the city and 23 on the highway, according to the Department of Energy. House leaders were concerned enough about the issue that they sent a memo to members suggesting that they consider leasing hybrids, according to one lawmaker who leases. Still, among the New York and New Jersey delegation, only one member ? Mr. McNulty ? uses a hybrid, according to the best available information.

?I think more members are going to be going to the hybrids,? said Mr. McNulty.

Mr. McNulty would not offer an opinion of members who lease more luxurious cars. ?I?m not going to judge another member?s decision,? he said. ?Mine was utility.?

Other members stand out for their more downscale choices.

Representative Jim Saxton, a Republican of New Jersey, leases a 2004 Chevy TrailBlazer at what he views as a reasonable $310 a month.

?Congressman Saxton feels an elected public official should choose a car that doesn?t cost taxpayers an extravagant amount,? said Jeff Sagnip, his spokesman.

Of course, there are concerns beyond cost, other members say.

?I can tell you Lexus has one of the best services and is one of the most reliable cars I know,? said Representative Gregory W. Meeks, a Queens Democrat, who leases a 2007 Lexus LS 460 at $998 a month. Mr. Meeks, interviewed a few feet from the House floor last week, seemed reluctant to go into detail, saying he was worried that a story about members? cars could be ?distorted? or negative.

?These are never lighthearted stories,? he said. His spokeswoman declined to discuss details of his leasing agreement.

Mr. Towns said leasing makes sense when you put as many miles on a car as he does traveling his Brooklyn district. He typically turns in the cars every few years. ?After two years of traveling in the district, that?s a lot of wear and tear,? he said.

For Representative Louise M. Slaughter, a Buffalo-area Democrat, safety was a worry, given her sprawling district. Ms. Slaughter used to drive her personal car to get around, she said. Then, in 2002, her political rivals in the Legislature in Albany redrew her district, in what she viewed as a deliberate effort to force her from office.

The new map, she said, resulted in a vast swath of western New York that is treacherous to travel in winter. She turned to a 2007 Buick Lucerne, which she leases for $808.29 a month.

?For the longest time, I didn?t do it at all,? she said of leasing. But the Lucerne, she said, had good traction and, perhaps more important, came equipped with a satellite tracking system. ?I figured if I got stuck in a snow bank people could find me,? she said. ?If I?m in an accident, they might be able to find me and not have to wait until the thaw.?

Mr. Rangel said he frequently offers rides to constituents so they can discuss their concerns in the luxurious confines of his DeVille.

?I want them to feel that they are somebody and their congressman is somebody,? Mr. Rangel explained. ?And when they say, ?This is nice,? it feels good.?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
So let me get this right...

We got the Weiner mobile from Brooklyn and Queens

And a BIG DADDY CADDY, PIMP MOBILE from Rangel in Harlem

Who said stereo types don't exist



if it was me - based on what these guys drive - I'd get a Hummer with helicopter hooks, so I could get out of tight places

besides how cool is it to say, my hummer has helicopter hooks

This post edited by DamnFish 01:29 PM 05/01/2008
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,392 Posts
DamnFish wrote:
And a BIG DADDY CADDY, PIMP MOBILE from Rangel in Harlem

Who said stereo types don't existstereotypes exist for a reason; it's just sad to see them reinforced with such regularity

'it's like a plane' indeed
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,370 Posts
I'd drive almost the same thing I do now. A Ford pickup with an 8' bed. Only it would be new instead of 10 years old and a crew cab instead of s supercab (the kids are bigger and need more leg room).
 

· Registered
Joined
·
22,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'd be like Chairman Buono of the NYS Thruway Authority, with an SUV and a sedan, at his home: the first for business and personal use and the second for longer trips...

I didn't know the Authority hands out free EZ-Passes to thousands of employees and Thruway retirees ? costing the state an untold amount of revenue.

This post edited by jpd 03:29 PM 05/01/2008
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
bluto1899 wrote:
I'd drive a Chevy Tahoe Hybrid. I could still drive a big truck, and the tree huggers wouldn't throw eggs at me.

Only the vegan tree huggers wouldn't throw eggs, the rest of the tree hugging granola eaters would throw tomatos

Those hybrids still only get about 25mpg - I thought about it
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,783 Posts
I also would drive what I do now !!



Mud

Ok Just kidding !! :rolleyes: This vehicle belongs to Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan.
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
10,783 Posts
Fish220sr wrote:
Mud- That is Sick!!!:rolleyes:

Well I know but you DID ask the question !!


Mud
 

· Registered
Joined
·
22,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Interesting

bluto1899 wrote:
I'd drive a Chevy Tahoe Hybrid. I could still drive a big truck, and the tree huggers wouldn't throw eggs at me.

NY Times

April 27, 2008
Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and GMC Yukon Hybrid
Big S.U.V.?s Drink Less

By BOB KNOLL

IT would take a magician of considerable skill to turn a large, thirsty S.U.V. into a gas-sipping hybrid, but General Motors has tried to pull just such a big green bunny out of its hat. For 2008, the company?s engineers have installed an innovative hybrid system in a couple of the company?s larger sport utilities, the Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon, and plan to add the system to other models, including the Cadillac Escalade and full-size pickups, in the coming months.

The technology itself, which began with a clean sheet of paper, is impressive. It is called a two-mode hybrid system because it offers two types of operation, one intended for city driving and one for the highway. Based on the hybrid-drive technology in big G.M. buses, the two-mode was jointly developed by G.M., BMW and the formerly co-joined DaimlerChrysler. All four companies (Daimler and Chrysler have separated) will be using two-mode technology in future vehicles.

G.M. was first to market with the Tahoe and Yukon hybrids, which do manage to be greener without much degradation of their heavy-duty characteristics. They can haul a big boat or trailer and accommodate, in theory, up to nine passengers. And while the hybrid S.U.V.?s get better overall mileage than their conventional gasoline-only siblings ? in the high teens in my experience, compared with perhaps 14 ? the difference may be less than potential buyers expect.

Ultimately, real-world fuel economy may be less than what was promised either by the company or by the federal ratings on the window sticker. A prospective purchaser will need to consider whether the mileage gains are enough to offset the hybrids? substantially higher prices.

More fundamentally, shoppers may want to reflect on whether they really need large trucklike vehicles like these instead of car-based crossovers that are inherently more efficient ? like G.M.?s own Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook.

G.M. explains its approach ? to start offering the system in some of its largest passenger vehicles ? by noting that mileage gains in such thirsty models can save the most gallons of fuel (and the most dollars at the pump). In contrast, the gains from a hybrid powertrain are relatively smaller in a relatively small, efficient car like a Honda Civic.

After driving the new G.M. hybrids, one must wonder whether it might have made more sense to direct this considerable engineering expertise to a mainstream sedan or crossover that could actually achieve 40 m.p.g. or so.

The two-mode hybrid system should not be confused with previous G.M. hybrids like the Saturn Green Line models or the new Chevy Malibu Hybrid. These are not capable of running on electricity alone; instead, they have an electric motor that gives an assist to the rather small gasoline engine when more power is needed. They also have, like most hybrids, an automated system that shuts off the engine when the car is stopped.

The two-mode also differs from the most popular hybrid, the Toyota Prius, which can be driven on the battery alone for brief periods. The Prius?s electric motor is relatively small, providing only a slight boost. The Prius was designed to be a high-mileage but relatively low-performance vehicle, and it performs that role fairly well.

The two-mode system, on the other hand, was designed from scratch with a clear goal: to preserve the muscular qualities of the big trucks in which it is installed. Simply put, the system consists of a 300-volt nickel-metal-hydride battery; two variable transmissions, or E.V.T.?s, each with a 60-kilowatt electric motor; and a 6-liter 332-horsepower V-8 engine. That gas engine can operate as a V-4, shutting half of the cylinders down when they are not needed to save fuel.

The engine is essentially the 6-liter V-8 found in large G.M. pickups, though it has been heavily modified for better economy. All this is controlled by a computer that constantly calculates the most efficient way to deliver power from the eight (or four) cylinders and the two variable transmissions.

One of these transmissions is infinitely variable, providing a nearly unlimited combination of gear ratios for low speeds and light loads, and one has four fixed gear ratios.

At low speeds and with light loads, the vehicle can be driven by the battery alone or by an infinite combination of gear ratios from one of the E.V.T.?s. For heavier loads and trailer towing, the second E.V.T. selects the most economical fixed ratio ? and half of the engine?s cylinders can shut down.

In any driving situation, the electric motors can kick in for a burst of power. Reverse gear uses the battery alone.

So that the vehicle can operate in the most efficient way possible, many other engineering changes were made from the conventional Tahoe and Yukon. A 300-volt battery operates the air-conditioning compressor so that climate-control is available even when the engine is off. A 42-volt battery runs the power steering and the engine oil pump; a 12-volt battery runs the other systems. Under braking, energy is recaptured and sent to the 300-volt battery.

The changes to these two-mode S.U.V.?s do not stop with the complicated hybrid electrical and transmission system. Since weight and aerodynamic drag are the most important factors in achieving high mileage, changes to the styling (a front air dam, running boards and a special rear-end design) improved the aerodynamics. Aluminum sheet metal on the hood and rear panels, along with thinner seats, helped to offset some of the 400 or so pounds added by the hybrid system and its batteries.

Another important change is the choice of a 3.08 final-drive ratio, compared with the 3.73 ratio in conventional Tahoes and Yukons. This alone reduces engine speed on the highway and, in my judgment, is responsible for a significant part of the improved fuel economy.

Indeed, I would wager that a regular gas-engine Tahoe or Yukon with a 3.08 final drive ratio and a six-speed automatic transmission (instead of the usual four-speed) might well match the highway fuel economy of the hybrid versions. And the gains could be accomplished with minimal added cost or complexity, though such a vehicle would still get dismal mileage in town.

Does all this engineering complication (and innovation) work in normal use? The quick answer is yes.

The Yukon two-mode accelerates with verve. The ?transmission? shifts imperceptibly and right when it should. The electric steering is competitive with that of other large S.U.V.?s. The noise level is low, the slight whine in all-electric mode is not obtrusive, and the regenerative braking feels right. A hybrid driver will notice little difference from the regular Yukon except for the eerie quiet when the vehicle is stopped and the gas V-8 is not running.

As is common with hybrids, a graphic display shows the power mode for the vehicle. More usefully, there is a small fuel-efficiency gauge that notes the ?sweet spot? between too heavy a foot on the accelerator and too much braking, so that by keeping the gauge?s needle at 12 o?clock the vehicle is running at maximum economy. I found that this device made it much easier to drive in the most economical manner. It would be useful in all cars and trucks.

Bells and whistles aside, how much better is fuel economy from this hybrid? For comparison, I drove a two-mode Yukon and a conventional gas-engine Tahoe LT3. Except for their powertrains they were equipped the same.

The Yukon/Tahoe hybrid comes in only one, fully loaded, version. The two-wheel-drive Tahoe model lists for $50,490. With four-wheel drive, the Tahoe lists for $53,295. (Comparable Yukons are a few hundred dollars more.)

My tested four-wheel-drive Yukon had the only two options available: a $995 sunroof and a $1,295 rear-seat DVD system. The total price topped $56,000.

I also tested a nonhybrid Tahoe with four-wheel drive. It had a 5.3-liter V-8 (which is also capable of running as a V-4) and the usual four-speed automatic transmission. Its many options (mostly standard on the hybrid) totaled $11,145. The sticker price was $49,995.

With four-wheel drive the hybrid is rated at 20 m.p.g. in both city and highway driving. (Two-wheel-drive versions are 20/21.) The gasoline-engine Tahoe with four-wheel drive is rated 14/19 (14/20 with two-wheel drive). These numbers are the basis for G.M.?s claim that the hybrid achieves 40 percent better city mileage, and that overall mileage is 25 percent better.

My own experience did not match those claims. I drove both S.U.V.?s in a similar manner, on highways and city streets, with an emphasis on mixed driving. As a driver attuned to economy ? in the 1960s, I competed in the Mobil Economy Run ? I try to coax the best mileage from a car most of the time.

Try as I might, I could not get the Yukon Hybrid?s mileage, as shown on the trip computer, up to an average of 20 m.p.g. It ranged from a low of 18.6 m.p.g. to a high of 19.4 m.p.g. My overall average was 19.3 m.p.g. on the computer and 19.5 m.p.g. based on my calculations of the actual fuel consumed.

There were a few times when I was able to drive on the battery alone (in traffic jams or on a level city street), and that obviously helped the overall mileage. What was remarkable to me was the consistency of the mileage in all types of driving.

The nonhybrid Tahoe was not so consistent between suburban and highway driving. I have driven several G.M. sport utilities equipped like the Tahoe and have found that over many miles in a variety of conditions, they end up averaging around 14 m.p.g. (Though sustained city driving lowers that number appreciably.) On the 2008 Tahoe, I averaged 14.9 m.p.g.

My take on these numbers is that an owner of one of the new two-mode hybrids is likely to average about 18 or 19 m.p.g. while a conventional Tahoe or Yukon will end up around 14.

So the new hybrid S.U.V.?s represent a lot of work (on G.M.?s part) and added expense (for the customer) for a gain of 4 to 5 m.p.g. For an owner who drives 15,000 miles a year, that amounts to roughly $850 to $1,000 in savings, based on a gas price of $3.60 a gallon. And the hybrid version costs roughly $10,000 more than a comparably equipped gasoline model.

Nor is the hybrid any cleaner, in terms of smog emissions, than many gas-powered cars and crossovers that carry PZEV ratings (for partial zero emission vehicle).

The standard-engine versions can run on E-85 ethanol, but at a significant penalty in fuel economy.

While I marveled at the engineering and sophistication of this two-mode hybrid, I remain somewhat baffled by the too-heavy, too-costly vehicles in which the technology made its debut. So, perhaps, is the public. Only 655 Tahoe and Yukon hybrids were sold in the first quarter of 2008, though G.M. has insisted that it still plans to sell up to 12,000 a year. This fall, Chrysler is bringing out two-mode versions of big S.U.V.?s, the Dodge Durango and Chrysler Aspen.

Further in the future, the picture is brighter for innovative technology like this. G.M. has announced plans to install a two-mode system in the smaller, lighter Saturn Vue crossover. Perhaps a passenger sedan will get it next.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top