Yes! This discussion is getting old so why not throw in some other brands of reels and reely stir up the hornets nest. I can't believe no one has discussed the venerable old Diawa Silver Series 7000. Shhh.......... This was probably the finest mass produced non-machined reel ever made. You Penn turkeys have been having too many Thanksgivings ever since the 704 was discovered. Surely it deserves some accolades but that cannot be done untill the bail is removed. Van Stahls are great works of art and probably good reels although they seem a bit hard to crank but world records can be set on cheap discount department store tackle. We revel in the garbage of the mass market place so why stop now with fishing reels? Where is all the humor, creativity, curiosity and experimentation here? Penn, Penn, Penn and more Penn cannot be all there are? Hence, hiding on the shelf in some vast lonely K-Mart, Wal Mart or even Sports Authority is perhaps another holy grail which can be worshipped, respected, abused, used, worked, tweaked, peaked and forgotten as the old Diawa 7000.