Trip January 2nd?
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So me and a friend were at the dock at 0615 this morning for the 0700 blackfish trip. Unfortunately we were the only customers there and thet trip did not go.
My questions is, is this normal? Is it unresonable of me to expect a boat to sail with only two paying fares?
I realize this would be a money losing trip for the Capt, but I also know I will not sail his ship again. Had we gone and been treated well I am sure I would have spent the winter fishing with him.
At the same time it might be me who is out of whack here since I fish my own boat during the normal weather months. Just curious what you think.
My questions is, is this normal? Is it unresonable of me to expect a boat to sail with only two paying fares?
I realize this would be a money losing trip for the Capt, but I also know I will not sail his ship again. Had we gone and been treated well I am sure I would have spent the winter fishing with him.
At the same time it might be me who is out of whack here since I fish my own boat during the normal weather months. Just curious what you think.
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Winter fishing you have to play the weather,Its been pretty nasty out there the last few days.Thats probably why no one showed up.The al will sail with a light crowd but you cant honestly expect any pb on long Island to sail with 2 paying fairs.This really isnt agood reason not to sail on the captain al again.If you want another option consider sheepshead bay there are multiple boats sailing so one will usualy get out if others dont.Not sailing happens for not enough fairs in the winter quite often,happend to me on the otter out of montauk a few weeks back.Now thats a sh%#%tty ride home.Its all part of the game my friend.
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gailwins wrote:
My questions is, is this normal? Is it unresonable of me to expect a boat to sail with only two paying fares?
Yes.
gailwins wrote:
I realize this would be a money losing trip for the Capt, but I also know I will not sail his ship again. Had we gone and been treated well I am sure I would have spent the winter fishing with him.
Can you really blame someone who, rather than lose money taking people fishing in nasty weather chose to NOT lose money and spend the day with his family? I really don't think this is a valid reason for not returning to a particular boat. I'm sure they would have liked to take you fishing, too, but not for a loss.
In the winter it gets slow for a lot of boats, if you want to sail on a boat and you don't know if they're going to definitely go or not there are two things you can do: 1) call ahead (night before) to see if they think they'll get enough fares to sail - they're usually very honest with this because nobody wants their customers to have the experience you had or 2) bring enough friends to make it worth the capt's time to take you out.
The other thing you can do is go to a port that has enough boats and enough regular off season customers that if your boat doesn't sail there's an option to go on a different boat. Sheepshead Bay and Point Pleasant are both great in that respect and most times if the boat you're on doesn't look like it'll sail you can change boats within 5 minutes and not watse the day.
My questions is, is this normal? Is it unresonable of me to expect a boat to sail with only two paying fares?
Yes.
gailwins wrote:
I realize this would be a money losing trip for the Capt, but I also know I will not sail his ship again. Had we gone and been treated well I am sure I would have spent the winter fishing with him.
Can you really blame someone who, rather than lose money taking people fishing in nasty weather chose to NOT lose money and spend the day with his family? I really don't think this is a valid reason for not returning to a particular boat. I'm sure they would have liked to take you fishing, too, but not for a loss.
In the winter it gets slow for a lot of boats, if you want to sail on a boat and you don't know if they're going to definitely go or not there are two things you can do: 1) call ahead (night before) to see if they think they'll get enough fares to sail - they're usually very honest with this because nobody wants their customers to have the experience you had or 2) bring enough friends to make it worth the capt's time to take you out.
The other thing you can do is go to a port that has enough boats and enough regular off season customers that if your boat doesn't sail there's an option to go on a different boat. Sheepshead Bay and Point Pleasant are both great in that respect and most times if the boat you're on doesn't look like it'll sail you can change boats within 5 minutes and not watse the day.
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I was all pumped to go Blackfishing on the Capt Dave in Sheepshead Bay on New Years day. I called the night before to make sure they were sailing and was told they were going out. I got up at 4AM New Years day to pack and make the hour and forty five minute trip from my house in Warwick (Orange County). I got to the boat around 7:15 and the wind was howling from the Southeast. A couple of other fares and I waited untill about 8:20 when the Captain said the weather wasn't going to break so he had to cancel the trip.
Now at first I was Pissed that I drove all that way and spent over $50 in gas and tolls to be turned away, but after thinking about it I realized that He could have taken our money and put us out in 10' seas with people getting seasick or hurt bouncing around the boat. Two other boats had gone out and turned back.
There are many reasons for a Captain to cancel a trip, some for safety, some for economics. He has to do what's right for his business. It is easy for you to say he should have gone out with only 2 fares, but that may happen many times during the winter and he may be losing $100-$500 per trip when that happens. How often could he afford to do that?
Now at first I was Pissed that I drove all that way and spent over $50 in gas and tolls to be turned away, but after thinking about it I realized that He could have taken our money and put us out in 10' seas with people getting seasick or hurt bouncing around the boat. Two other boats had gone out and turned back.
There are many reasons for a Captain to cancel a trip, some for safety, some for economics. He has to do what's right for his business. It is easy for you to say he should have gone out with only 2 fares, but that may happen many times during the winter and he may be losing $100-$500 per trip when that happens. How often could he afford to do that?
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yes it is unreasonable for you to expect the boat to go out with two fares the fare on the capt al is $50.00 each if there was two of you that would cover the payment for 1 mate.plus add on fuel,bait,capts wages and tackle the boat is there to make money, there is no reason not to fish with him again hes a great fisherman and im sure capt tom would have gone with 4 more people,still a loss for the boat.
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When a boat Sails
Party boats for years have been willing to eat some loss on days with light crowds , if you take a light crowd fishing as a general rule you make them happy and they return . Most boats have a bare minimum used to be maybe 6 or 8 would do it with rising fuel cost I know that number is rising for most operations .
Most long time party boat fishermen know this and have experianced it many times over.
On days like today on most boats you could have expected that number to be much higher than 6 or 8 . It was blowing a gail this am and had blown a gale all day yesterday . No or at least No operation I know of would risk breaking a customer or the boat on a day like today for a loss.
Dont be mad at the Capt. Al it was in everyones best interest to cancel today.
A fast call to the boat will normally give you a good idea of there policy as far as fares needed to sail.
Party boats for years have been willing to eat some loss on days with light crowds , if you take a light crowd fishing as a general rule you make them happy and they return . Most boats have a bare minimum used to be maybe 6 or 8 would do it with rising fuel cost I know that number is rising for most operations .
Most long time party boat fishermen know this and have experianced it many times over.
On days like today on most boats you could have expected that number to be much higher than 6 or 8 . It was blowing a gail this am and had blown a gale all day yesterday . No or at least No operation I know of would risk breaking a customer or the boat on a day like today for a loss.
Dont be mad at the Capt. Al it was in everyones best interest to cancel today.
A fast call to the boat will normally give you a good idea of there policy as far as fares needed to sail.
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The view from my window...
Today was certainly not a good day to fish on the ocean. The further offshore you fished, the nastier it would get, and the further inshore you fished, the less chance you would have of getting a bite.
Now, I will say that I am clearly not speaking for any operator other than myself here, so do not assume that what follows describes what Captain Weiss, or any other Captain was, or would be thinking on such an occassion.
Firstly, I would say that there are precious few vessels that would leave the dock w/ two clients, and that would probably happen in the better days of the season, and when conditions are ideal. I cannot think of anything worse than leaving the dock, garuanteed to loose a minimum of four hundred dollars (closer to six hundred for most vessels), except if it were already blowing a gale, and was forecast to continue to do so, and you knew that the fishing was probably going to be stiff.
Now, again, from my point of view, I would have to think long and hard to leave the dock loosing only a couple hundred dollars, w/ what would be five or six of my strongest clients. So, my first question to you, Gailwins, would be- How many trips have you made on that vessel so far this year? I'm not being a jerk here, don't take it wrong, I'm giving you my perspective as an owner. If I had a handful of people show up on a day such as today, and I didn't know a one of them, I would not think that I was going to convert them into die-hard regulars after taking them out, beating them up, and probably catching poorly. If a new face told me that they would become a regular if I sailed w/ two, I would tell them that I do not care to have a regular that thinks I should sail w/ two. Not being a jerk here, but I do speak my mind. Others would probably be much more diplomatic, But I think my statement would be closer to the truth for most owners.
This is not the time of year to build a business. This time of year, most operations are simply serving their base clientele, keeping the crew working, and occassionally making a very few dollars.
From the deckhands point of view, I would have to say he must be very hungry, or desperate, to want to go out w/ two, or four. I don't think there is the possibility of getting enough tip money, along w/ his pay, to make a day like today, or even a blue-bird day, worthwhile. Bottom fishing is basically the same work for a deckhand, whether there are four, or forty, people.
Getting turned away on a good weather day in the winter is a shame, but must be expected in today's industry, on occassion. It is where we are. Thinking you might get out on a weekday, w/ a poor forecast, is certainly looking for the pie-in-the-sky.
It certainly sucks for a client to plan a day, get his stuff together, and shape up for a trip, only to get turned away. Think about the operator and crew, who must shape up each day, even when they know they don't stand a chance, and be prepared to make the trip. And they go home, a few dollars poorer, many days a week. I know, they chose the job, but until there are a thousand people looking to go fishing everyday in the area, this is the situation that we all must live w/ if we want to go fishing.
I know I would be disappointed if I made plans, went somewhere and spent fifty bucks, only to find that my plans were trashed for reasons beyond my control. I was even more disappointed after going to my boat everyday in October, and then not even being able to pay the advertising bill at the end of the month w/ my gross.
That's how it looks from my wheelhouse, anyways. I hope I helped some.
Paul
Today was certainly not a good day to fish on the ocean. The further offshore you fished, the nastier it would get, and the further inshore you fished, the less chance you would have of getting a bite.
Now, I will say that I am clearly not speaking for any operator other than myself here, so do not assume that what follows describes what Captain Weiss, or any other Captain was, or would be thinking on such an occassion.
Firstly, I would say that there are precious few vessels that would leave the dock w/ two clients, and that would probably happen in the better days of the season, and when conditions are ideal. I cannot think of anything worse than leaving the dock, garuanteed to loose a minimum of four hundred dollars (closer to six hundred for most vessels), except if it were already blowing a gale, and was forecast to continue to do so, and you knew that the fishing was probably going to be stiff.
Now, again, from my point of view, I would have to think long and hard to leave the dock loosing only a couple hundred dollars, w/ what would be five or six of my strongest clients. So, my first question to you, Gailwins, would be- How many trips have you made on that vessel so far this year? I'm not being a jerk here, don't take it wrong, I'm giving you my perspective as an owner. If I had a handful of people show up on a day such as today, and I didn't know a one of them, I would not think that I was going to convert them into die-hard regulars after taking them out, beating them up, and probably catching poorly. If a new face told me that they would become a regular if I sailed w/ two, I would tell them that I do not care to have a regular that thinks I should sail w/ two. Not being a jerk here, but I do speak my mind. Others would probably be much more diplomatic, But I think my statement would be closer to the truth for most owners.
This is not the time of year to build a business. This time of year, most operations are simply serving their base clientele, keeping the crew working, and occassionally making a very few dollars.
From the deckhands point of view, I would have to say he must be very hungry, or desperate, to want to go out w/ two, or four. I don't think there is the possibility of getting enough tip money, along w/ his pay, to make a day like today, or even a blue-bird day, worthwhile. Bottom fishing is basically the same work for a deckhand, whether there are four, or forty, people.
Getting turned away on a good weather day in the winter is a shame, but must be expected in today's industry, on occassion. It is where we are. Thinking you might get out on a weekday, w/ a poor forecast, is certainly looking for the pie-in-the-sky.
It certainly sucks for a client to plan a day, get his stuff together, and shape up for a trip, only to get turned away. Think about the operator and crew, who must shape up each day, even when they know they don't stand a chance, and be prepared to make the trip. And they go home, a few dollars poorer, many days a week. I know, they chose the job, but until there are a thousand people looking to go fishing everyday in the area, this is the situation that we all must live w/ if we want to go fishing.
I know I would be disappointed if I made plans, went somewhere and spent fifty bucks, only to find that my plans were trashed for reasons beyond my control. I was even more disappointed after going to my boat everyday in October, and then not even being able to pay the advertising bill at the end of the month w/ my gross.
That's how it looks from my wheelhouse, anyways. I hope I helped some.
Paul
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687 Posts
no boat sailed out of shb today. i guess the weather wouldnt have cooperated. tommotrrow should be less windy but it supposed to be like 0 degrees with the windchill. there might not be ebnough people tommorow.
next week 50's
im looking at tues jan 8th for blacks and ling
theyll be fares at the bay then if you want to make the long drive.
next week 50's
im looking at tues jan 8th for blacks and ling
theyll be fares at the bay then if you want to make the long drive.
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309 Posts
Well, it looks like I am wrong.
As a note, I never mentioned the name of the boat i went to on purpose because I did not think it was relevant. I can see how it might be assumed I was speaking about the Capt. Al because of the previous post, but again, I am not here trying to disparage any of the boats or there captains.
I know they work as hard as anyone else and will not second guess their decisions. Just asking a few friendly questions.
My 2 cents.
As a note, I never mentioned the name of the boat i went to on purpose because I did not think it was relevant. I can see how it might be assumed I was speaking about the Capt. Al because of the previous post, but again, I am not here trying to disparage any of the boats or there captains.
I know they work as hard as anyone else and will not second guess their decisions. Just asking a few friendly questions.
My 2 cents.
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GailWins,
It is good that you expressed you feelings. Now, you got the perspective of many people in different aspects of the operation. Also, you have probably helped to educate countless other members, who would never have posted about the subject.
This is an example of no one being right or wrong- You did not have all the information you have now when you made that statement, and you did not make a false statement, you stated an opinion. It seems that now you may understand the Captains actions better, now that you know more about the other side of the operation. Also, you would have never known if your feelings were valid or not if you had kept quiet. Don't take anyone's remarks as offensive. Most people are just more forward when posting a response on the internet, and those that are offensive, well, don't take it to heart. The anonimity of the internet prevents us from knowing the true passion and background of many posters.
And I did notice that you didn't mention the vessel's name, and I respected you for that from the git-go. Since what he did, as you found out, is a general industry practice, it didn't matter that the name flushed out.
Paul
It is good that you expressed you feelings. Now, you got the perspective of many people in different aspects of the operation. Also, you have probably helped to educate countless other members, who would never have posted about the subject.
This is an example of no one being right or wrong- You did not have all the information you have now when you made that statement, and you did not make a false statement, you stated an opinion. It seems that now you may understand the Captains actions better, now that you know more about the other side of the operation. Also, you would have never known if your feelings were valid or not if you had kept quiet. Don't take anyone's remarks as offensive. Most people are just more forward when posting a response on the internet, and those that are offensive, well, don't take it to heart. The anonimity of the internet prevents us from knowing the true passion and background of many posters.
And I did notice that you didn't mention the vessel's name, and I respected you for that from the git-go. Since what he did, as you found out, is a general industry practice, it didn't matter that the name flushed out.
Paul
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