[613098]

Guys,
We've talked about a lot of things that reduce the stock of fish available for sport fishing. The thing we all seem to agree on is that overfishing by the commercial boats has brought many fish populations to extremely low levels.
Perhaps it is time for our society to consider gradually phasing out commercial fising as much as possible. Think about it - 150 years ago, market hunting was the rule. Deer, ducks, geese, and of course the buffalo were subjected to great pressue by commercial hunters. If that sort of thing had been allowed to continue, many of these species would be extinct. As a society develops, it goes from hunter-gatherer to agricultural. Fish farming is becoming more common and more feasible every day. Think of shrimp, salmon, tilapia and catfish. Work is being done right now to develop techniques to farm fluke. A lack of commercial fishing would allow depleted stocks to rebound in nature.
Should this be the wave of the future? Is this how to preserve sport fishing, just as sport huntingwas saved?
What do you all think?
Denmark

 

[togmaster]

Never happen!!!!

Den I don't think you'll ever see it happen. reason being ther eis to much money involved between all people. the fishing industries is one of the biggest in the world as far as money goes . do you think the govermant wants to lose there funds from commercial fishermen and fish sales. don't think so. Also how many people would be out of work. Yes better Regs for commercial guys would be nice but the Rec.s seem to be taking the back seat for now. They'll keep hitting the Rec' guys just to show there doing some thing. thats the [political game. Funny other states have more harvest then NY how come they are allowed to get it and not us? This is a long battle which you would need a lot of people and money and good lawyers to win. Don't see it happening sorry to say

 

[Capt.XXX]

Sorry Denmark, I don't agree.

You can't blame commercial fisherman, they are hard working folks just looking to put food on the table for their families not unlike most of us. They play by the rules just like we do. If you want to place blame then bl;ame the folks that make the rules. Our Government makes the rules, NMFS dictates how fishery stocks are managed either directly by them or thru lesser governmantal agencies like Mid Atlantic Fisheries, etc. Please don't bash the commercials, since it really isn't their fault. I agree whole heartedly that roller gear has destroyed many nursery grounds for both codfish and tog, but NMFS has allowed fishermen to use this type of gear. Pair-trawling has wiped out scores of bluefin and yellowfin before NMFS dis-allowed this type of fishing directed and pelagic fisheries. Please place the blame where it belongs. NMFS just does a poor job of fisheries management. All they know is crisis management and have little experience and/or success in managing our fisheries for the future.

Fish farming...please all of those farm raised fish taste like cardboard as far as I'm concerned. Nothing tastes better than wild fish. Just compare this, free range chicken or Purdue -- which tastes better? How about free range beef or hormone / antibotic injested food lot beef -- which tastes better? Also, fish farms add a lot of polutants into the environment.

Let's get rid of the smoke and mirrors -- We need better management NOW! Call your politicians write to them. WE also want the decommisioned LIRR train cars to build more artifical reefs. We pay your salaries in one of the most expensive counties in the US (Nassau) to live in. WE FISH AND VOTE AND WILL GET YOUR @$$ OUT OF OFFICE!

 

[MakoMatt]

Capt.XXX, what tastes better, grain fed duck or wild duck? I can go on and on with this one. By the way, the best tasting, most expensive Salmon, is Norweigian Pond raised.

Anyway, I agree, it's not the commericial guys fault, they are playing by the rules, it's the rule makers, NMFS, and the States, they spend too much time putting out fires with no real long range plan that includes everyone's, including the fishes, best interests.

We will never get rid of the commericial fisherman, and, we shouldn't, there is a big world to feed and the ocean is a great resourse, it just needs to be managed correctly. It will take time, and we need to have a bigger voice in the decision making process.

Just my $.02
MakoMatt

 

[Hunt n' Fish]

Fish Farming

DP,

Fish farming for salt water species has not been very succesful. Newsday has had an article in the online outdoor column for months now about the failed flounder venture at Plum Island. Farming for trout and salmon species works well, but the genetically engineered trout and salmon can out compete the native species becuase they are more resistant to disease and larger, faster etc.

Fish farming for fresh water species like catfish and talapia is pretty successful, but it is not the cure-all yet.

 

[LkyLindy]

Old Mcdonald

Capt.XXX-

unfortunately is correct .The biggest problem with fish farming is pollution if not done right.It takes 5lbs. of pellets to produce 1lb of fish weight on the farms.But they are improving the techniques.I believe Time magazine had an interesting article on this a few months ago;.......
Salmon farming can be a dirty business. According to Otto Langer, 56, a biologist who worked 30 years for Canada's Department of Fisheries, a large salmon farm may pour as much liquid waste into the sea as a small city. Add to that the plagues of destructive sea lice that thrive in densely packed salmon pens and the schools of farm-grown fish that inevitably escape to the open sea, where they spread diseases and compete for food and breeding grounds with wild stocks.

Because salmon are voracious eaters of smaller species, it takes several pounds of wild fish, ground up into meal, to yield 1 lb. of farmed salmon ? an exchange that depletes the world supply of protein. The diet of farmed salmon lacks the small, pink-colored krill that their wild cousins eat, so the flesh of farmed fish is gray; a synthetic version of astaxanthin, a naturally occurring pigment, is added to the feed.

The whole article can be found at www.time.com/time/globalbusiness/article/ 0,9171,1101021125-391523,00.html

 

[bhm25]

whats next stop party and charter boats ? becare full what you wish for seem the more everybody moans about the commercial guys they just hammer it harder to us...

 

[max171]

fishing

lets not get crazy..these guys harvest the ocean to feed people..dude we go out to kill some time and some fish, rec anglers represent millions in revenue dollars yes..but lets face it its apples and oranges, and we as the rec anglers spend all our effort and money bitching and moaning, while the commercial guys are united as one voice,and have lobbiest which is key...while we sit around on the 3rd wed of the month practicing proper parlimentary procedure thinking we make a diffrence...please lets not kid ourselves..sorry for the unpopular opinion but enough with sugar coating a problem thats not going away..just cause you dont have the sores doesnt mean your herpes went away...lol

max

 

[614347]

In this country, Tilapia and Catfish are Maricultures sucess stories. Both are freshwater operations in small ponds or large tanks. In Jamaica, there is a Tilapia farm in ****pit country that occupies an entire ridge, and operates over 30 ponds! They must produce a good percentage of the fish consumed on the island. Instead of polluting the local waters, the runoff from THIS operation fertilizes farmland. It was the Asian "Shrimp Factories" that gave Mariculture the "polluter" monicker.

If it is "genetic pollution" that worries you, recovery of populations in Striped Bass, Redfish, and Snook required hatchery intervention. The Striped Bass hatchery at VerPlanck (NY) introduces it's variation directly into the Hudson River. The occasional escapee from a fish farm hardly has the impact that this MASSIVE intervention does. Besides, isn't evolution the "survival of the fittest"? Any variation in the gene pool must be positive in the long run.

"Cultural pollution" is a far more insidious enemy. For someone who comes from a place that had nothing, the very idea of NOT taking all that is humanly possible is inconceivable. Bag limits and seasonal closures are mere annoyances. There are some commercial fishermen who would feel no guilt at all if they caught the very last fish in the sea, provided it was on the day that they retired! It is up to US to protect the fish, you and me. They belong to our children, and we have been letting a small group steal them, for personal gain.

Simply stop issuing new licenses to non-license holders, and require some percentage of declared income a pre-requisite for renewal, and you would quickly end Commercial fishing without taking the food out of some deserving families mouth. It has gotten to the point where you have no idea WHAT toxic chemical you are eating in your seafood, and probably won't find out until it's too late, if at all. Just a matter of time until society wakes up. Foodfish must be as monitored just as any other "food" is. Monitored at every step in the PRODUCTION process.

I hope your grandchild enjoys the same type of sportfishery that your grandfather did, but somehow I just don't see that happening. OUR fault.

Flounder

 

[Capt.XXX]

NMFS ... I finally figured out what the letters stand for

N.M.F.S. = Nothing Makes _ucking Sense

 

[611811]

BAN COMMERCIALS

Banning commercial fishing altogether is similar to bordering states having different regs. If this country closes down it's commercial fishing the result would be the same or faster consumption of the resource by other contries that will have no problem taking up the slack.

This is a global problem that can only be solved by all governments of all nations agreeing to do whatever is necessary to preserve the resource.

In this country we should be doing our part to set a good example in trying to preserve the resource and hope that others will follow suit. This is something we should do with regards to our world leading creation of green house gases also, but that's another topic.

Closing down commercial fishing in this country would only serve to put people out of work, drive up the price of food and give more of the resource to more irresposible users.

The great majority of commercial fisherman, I beleive, understand what's at stake and would be willing to undertake the means necessary to conserve the resource for the future. The problem is how do they do that and remain a viable business. I believe in this day and age that solutions are out there and all that is needed is the incentive. It's a complicated problem but not impossible. But again I don't think the US can or should do it alone.

 

[leakyrivot]

Commercial fishing - I say kick them out of the EEZ, adapt or die

I understand the history behind it and that some make their livings this way, but like all things, the world has changed and it's time for these people to adapt or die.

It's pretty depressing when I speak to an old timer about how you once could catch cod from the surf or even in bays and brackish river areas. There was a time when you could seriosly fish for cod/haddock/polluck/fluke from a 16 footer with a single reel. Now days you need to trek 20 miles to have a consistent shot and still might not do so well. There's a mural at Plum Island, MA that depicts harpooning giant bluefin from dories, off of the Isles of Shoals.. Where are the squid and giant schools of bluefish that I've read about? Those black and white photographs of 50 lb stripers you see are just another sign of the damage that has been done.

The ocean simply cannot sustain an all out commercial effort. The equipment and boats today are just too advanced. This game and attitude of getting the stocks up only to deplete them again is ridiculous. At some point we will see a final solution to the problem, mabye not even in my lifetime, but it's coming.

The rules are pretty screwed up, but at the same time, the commercials can't try and blame the rules for the by-catch problem. The commercials definitly cannot blame the rules for the serious decline in stocks over the last 100 years. Why do these assholes drag up and destroy 4000 lbs of groundfish, when they can only take home 500 lbs? They feel, for some reason, that it is OK to destroy the enviorment and that it is theirs for the taking.

The truthe about the money is that the recreational fisheries contribute far more to the economy and do far less damage to the enviorment.

I say, the only real solution is to kick everything that does not involve a simple rod, reel and single set of hooks out of our local waters. Let our commercial fleet, along with the rest of the worlds, fish outside of the EEZ. The cost of fish will go up, it will be feasible to have fish farms or to fish commercially with rod and reel as the stocks rebound.

Jon

 

[619627]

Boy, these are some passionate and well thought out posts on this topic! As we can see, its a balancing act between properly managing depleted fish stocks, between the commercial and recreational fishing groups.

My feeling has always been to allow selected gear types for commercial fishermen, while phasing out destructive gear types such as fish pots, rock hopper, and pelagic longlines.

I also believe that licenses should be open to anyone who feels they want to commercial fish. Licenses should be priced in such a way, that it would only make sense for one to purchase a license if they are active commercial fishermen. As in any industry, the best will make a good living, while others will feel that it does not 'pay' to make the upfront costs of the license. I see the current system as we have in place, favoring big corporations, and large fishing fleets. And as we also see, those who have licenses today, are having a hard time making a good living.

Fish farming is not the magic answer for improving fish stocks or feeding the public. In selective fisheries, fish farming has been successful, but in many others, their is a long way to go. If anyone has eaten farm raised striped bass, they know what i mean!!!

On last thing, and i agree with BHM25...it seems everyone wants more regulations of our fisheries. But the regulations, have made it tougher for tackle shops, party and charter boats to make a good living. Their has to be a better system, and NMFS is not cutting it! Hopefully we will get politicans elected who have a better idea on how to manage our fisheries. Just take a look at the many problems of over regulating the fishing industry in California. How would you like to be a tackle shop or party and charter boat owner out on the west coast right now!

EC NEWELL MAN*

 

[MakoMike]

Guys,
One additional point. Like so many of you have said the fish belong to everybody. If you ban commercial fishing you will be denying any benefit of the resource to 99% of the population. Economically the commercials are simply being paid to harvest the fish for the rest of the population. At least for those fish that aren't exported. The ones that are exported pay for the population to buy toyotas and hondas So banning commercial fishing makes no more sense, for most of the people in the country, than banning sportfishing would in the coastal states.

 

[Scratcher]

I see it a little differently. The question I would ask is how much of the population will be denied the benefit of the fishery if it is fished until it collapses? Seems to me that in that case its 100% of all future generations, including the livelihood of all future would-be commercial fishermen. After 1500 years of fishing are we going to be the generation that wiped the fisheries out? That’s the question. I don't think its doing anybody a favor by allowing the destruction of breeding habitat or fishing out the last of the breeding stock. Unfortunately technology and human nature have left us only painful choices.

The choices we have are:

1. Severe restrictions now that will be painful to the commercial fleet

or, behind door number 2...allowing commercial fishing to continue until fisheries are wiped out.

I'm not advocating the end of commercial fishing, but I am saying that commercial fishermen in particular will have to make sacrifices for the long-term well being of the fisheries.

If you think we’re not there yet think about Atlantic Halibut, Swordfish and Atlantic Salmon.

What we owe all Americans is to pass along fisheries that are in good shape to the next generation.

Also, there is every indication we can be successful - the restoration of the striper population is a big success, and there are signs that areas of the Georges Banks are coming back to life. The difficulty will be not giving in to the temptation to open restored fisheries to fast or to too many boats.

 

[Capt.XXX]

Scratcher, You're Not Seeing Anything Differently

You are talking Fisheries MANAGEMENT. Commercial fishing has a place. It just needs to be MANAGED better. This includes:

-Gear type allowances
-Area closures
-Species
-Quotas
-Scientific Data
-All the stuff our tax dollars $$$$$ are spent on for NMFS (now we know what the letters stand for!) to do their job.

All the above posts are saying the same thing, except the ones which are bashing commercial fishing. If management causes fish prices to be high -- the public will pay higher prices. We do this now with oil prices.

We as users of the Fisheries resource need to demand better preformance for our hard earned tax dollars. Write your politicians -- break their balls get involved. The commercial fisherman are able to do it -- we as fisherman need to do it also. I don't see a difference between commercial and recreational fisherman. We are all users of the same resource (Fisherman).

We demand to have the resource MANAGED better!

 

[615965]

it's all about supply and demand, if you dont eat seafood at resturants, or buy fish at the market. they will never end commercial fishing because as stock deplete the demand is still there and price goes up, Q: in the future how much do you think the world's last Giant Bluefin will sell for. Prob enuf to operate the boat for a full year

 

[Capt.XXX]

Actually...

The price of Giants has gone down.

 

[Scratcher]

Capt.XXX - I agree, we need better management. My post was in response the the one from MakoMike directly above mine which seemed to be saying that we need to continue commercial fisheries so that they can supply seafood to the rest of the country. Thats fine as long as there are healthy fisheries. My point was that commercial fishermen, and by extension their customers, are in for a painful period if fisheries are to be restored.

Recreational fishermen can and should influence the NMFS towards rebuilding fish stocks, and erring on the side of caution when in doubt.

Its interesting to me that Environmental groups, even the middle of the road ones, are almost always characterized as extremist kooks by recreational fishermen. An alliance between Environmental groups and recreational fishing interests would be very powerful politically. I wonder why it hasn't happened?

 

[MakoMatt]

What is a "middle of the road" environmental group?

MakoMatt