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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well they are doing it again! The MTA is loading it's old subway cars onto barges destined to become new fishing reefs, but it aint here. How is it that other states and the federal government says it's ok, but NYS will not allow it?
 

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DEC has NO COJONES

I think the environmentalist squeezed the DEC again.

Last time, the excuse was that the cars had asbestos in them. Though studies proved that asbestos is an air danger and doesn't pose danger under water.

The New York DEC is a joke. New Jersey's DEC evaluated the evidence a took a large quantity of the retired trains.

ALSO, The trains were environmentaly cleansed at the expense of the transit authority.

What a waste. We realy should be putting them on our reefs.

LooneyTunes
Dave
 

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The real story is that the NY DEC screwed the pooch and DID NOT APPLY FOR THE NECESSARY PERMITS IN A TIMELY FASHION!!!
There is only 1 guy working on the reef program for the state and it took him too long to complete the application process (Said it was like writing a master's thesis). The permits are good for 10 years, but we don't have current permits!! Therefore, we miss this opportunity to obtain great reef material and it goes to NJ and locations south where they have the proper permits in place. Sad part is we spoke with the DEC reef guy about this at my fishing club several years ago and they STILL didn't have their act together for this round of cars. Total BS!!
 

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Why would any state want them?

It takes $$$ to apply and do the work

And Then they are going to do is have to make a law to keep coms off of them and then spend more $$$ to enforce a ban on pots.

Why bother....
 

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tautog1 wrote:
It would make way too much sense to use them ourselves. NYS would much rather transport them south (at our cost) so others can use them.
Yeah and dont forget the cost of stripping them down.

What a Joke.
Our subway cars are lined up the east coast in a few states except the state of NY...errrrr makes me mad
 

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Gaucho wrote:
tautog1 said:
Yeah and dont forget the cost of stripping them down.

What a Joke.
Our subway cars are lined up the east coast in a few states except the state of NY...errrrr makes me mad


What's the alternative? not stripping them down and tossing them in a land fill?
 

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You could MAKE money scrapping them, rather than paying union labor to prep them for another state, and then paying to deck-load them to where ever.

It's certainly true, the DEC hasn't had active reef permits for years, And if they did, it would be a bear to get them to endorse such an activity. They're simply looking at it from a different window, on the wrong side of the house.

Paul
 

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I really can not understand the big hype over artificial reefs.How do they help fish stocks?IMHO all they do is to congregate fish so they can be more easily caught,by both recs and comms,although the comms are treated like a redheaded step-son.They make it simple,throw a huge amount of...trains in the water and fish will gather,publish exact lat/lon numbers and fill the reef up with people that would otherwise not have a clue,thus catching more fish.There is no conservation value in this,that i can see.
 

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CaptPaul wrote:
You could MAKE money scrapping them, rather than paying union labor to prep them for another state, and then paying to deck-load them to where ever.it's truly twisted logic that these cars are being prepped, shipped & dumped at NYS expense when they could CREATE significant value as SCRAP. Unless these other states are PAYING NYS a sum that exceeds the cars' scrap value, this is a losing proposition for taxpayers.



 

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Paul,

It's not a window they're looking at it through, it's one of those illusion paintings that changes when you stare long enough. They're all sitting there saying, "I don't see it...Do you see it?"
 

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Mark,

I recant.

It's more like a group of accountants trying to get the space shuttle into orbit and landed, using the operator's manual for a ballistic misslie sub.









Written in Russian.









W/ an English/Russian dictionary.









W/ one-hundred fifty pages missing.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I dought that the MTA is paying to have these cars readied for the reef. It must be a federal grant. After all the people are screeming about fare hikes, there would be riots if the hikes were going to fund reefs in other states. And Paul is right they do have scrap value.
 

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Funny this thread came up last week on my way home from work I was coming down the Deegan and saw them loding them up there coming out of the 206st yard, This week i am taking an Asbestos supervisor class with 3 other Con Ed guys and 5 NYC transit guys after BSing with them during lunch they actually were the ones stripping the cars and the last 9 were found to have Asbestos so they had to take this 40hr course to become NYS licensed, One guy said they are headed for Virginia close to 40 cars I said its a shame they can't drop them off the south shore of Long island he agreed as he is a big into fishing also
 

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crabman1130 wrote:
I dought that the MTA is paying to have these cars readied for the reef. It must be a federal grant. After all the people are screeming about fare hikes, there would be riots if the hikes were going to fund reefs in other states. And Paul is right they do have scrap value.


I dont think its a grant I believe they are sold to which ever state bids for them I will ask those guys tomorrow
 

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"New York disposed of many of it's 1,300 retired Redbird cars earlier this decade by donating them to artificial reef-building programs up and down the eastern seaboard. NJ stopped accepting them in 2003 after environmentalists raised concerns that the asbestos in the Redbirds could harm marine life. Studies by other states that sunk subway cars and by federal officials have satisfied NJ sufficiently, however, that it should go ahead with further artificial reef building using New York's retired subway cars.

The Times had reported that a critic of the plan hoped "New Jersey officials would ask for the subway cars with the least amount of asbestos." The economics are interesting: The MTA will spend over $6 million to send the train cars to NJ, which sounds like a lot until you learn that it would cost $27 million for the MTA to strip the cars of asbestos."
 

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I had read a long time ago that even though the cars have scrap value, the cost to get them ready for scrap far exceeded the scrap value, which is why the MTA decided to just pay the ocst oif getting them ready to be dumped, which was far less than the cost of getting them ready for acrap. IOW its far cheaper to do the prep work to use them for reefs than to get them ready for scrap.
 
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