[Gamakatsu]

Most of us have been reading about the old subway cars that NYC was going to donate for use as artificial reefs off our shores. The latest news is that it appears that Delaware and South Carolina are going to get them because Governors Pataki and DiFrancesco sided with the enviro wackos. The enviros claimed that the asbestos in the cars might create an environmental hazard, even though there is no hazard from waterborne asbestos. So now the cars will go someplace else so that other anglers can reap the benefits.

Just imagine blackfishing in the fall if those cars were sunk in 50 feet of water off the North Shore. Imagine the seabass and fluke that would gather around them if they were sunk off the South Shore. It is such a shame that we have to pander to these groups whose primary objective is to limit the public's right to our resources. They will do anything possible to reduce the harvest of fish, even denying the fish additional habitat in which to live. When do we stop getting screwed?

Gamakatsu

 

[Mad Mahi]

GAMAKATSU-

It just goes to show you how these environmental extremists jerk themselves and others into thinking that they are doing "good".

They won't allow some subway cars that have been cleared of asbestos AND other toxic substances to be sunk in water. As you stated, it has been proven and tested that water born contamination is almost nil. BUT, they will allow living humans to ride in them ( I'm one!).

There are hundreds of those same cars("Redbirds") still in service that are ridden by thousands of people EVERY day! And those cars have not been "detoxified". Where is the logic in that?

 

[seaslug44]

This is old news. Pataki signed the 400 cars over to Delaware the 1st week of June. There are pictures on the internet of the first few dozen cars that were sunk on the new reef site in August.

 

[Gamakatsu]

Doctorfish, South Carolina offered to receive the cars THIS WEEK...Pay attention to the newspaper.

Gamakatsu

 

[topgun228]

Are the guys from Delaware laughing in our faces yet? Have they started to haul fish from our subways - imagine the scenario - NYC subways providing fish for guys in Delaware and NY fisherman getting skunked.

Would be extremely funny for the environmentalist if the currents take the water from Delaware straight back to NY. Ha Ha.

 

[seaslug44]

Here is a link to an article that talks about how New Jersey rejected the cars and Delaware accepted them.
Subway Cars Find a Home

Here is a photo of the first batch being pushed into the water off of the Delaware coast;

 

[Gamakatsu]

I was just looking on the New York Times website and it seems that Virginia and Georgia are considering the cars too. It does not look good for our chances of getting any cars, even in the future. Topgun makes a good point, the states to the south will get the fishing and the prevailing currents will bring us the so-called contamination. Maybe an asbestos scare could reduce demand for locally harvested seafood, causing a reduction in commercial harvesting--Just some wishful thinking...

Mad Mahi, these groups don't care if you breath asbestos; they don't even care if the fish do. It is all about one thing--CONTROL...

Gamakatsu

 

[seaslug44]

That's all it is about, CONTROL. I read somewhere that dilution in the Atlantic ocean is so massive that if you put every ounce of asbestos ever manufactured into the ocean it still would be undetectable.

 

[Mad Mahi]

Gama, I agree, it is not about caring but controlling.

There was an article in BBC news dated August 27,2001 on the subway cars. One paragraph said:

"After 40 years running the rails of the New York Subway, the Redbirds are being put to rest at the bottom of the Atlantic as part of a scheme to rebuild the damaged coast off the state of Delaware."

Now, I ask, hasn't the erosion of the barrier islands on LI's SOUTH SHORE been a hot topic in the recent past? There are supposed to be about 1300 of these subway cars that will be decommissioned and sunk by the end of 2002. They wouldn't help in stemming some of the erosion on LI?

From another angle, what about harvesting of tuna? It's a known fact that our quota is often met all too soon because the guys down south pursue them earlier and even come up to our region to fish them. Now they will have additional structure to attract and hold these pelagics? I sense shorter seasons up here.






TSLTW

 

[614851]

gamakatsu,

in your opening post, you state that " there is no hazard from waterborne asbestos ".

how do you know that?

i'm really not sure i understand what you mean.

are you saying that some study or studies have shown that there is no hazard from waterborne asbestos?

or are you saying that there are no studies that show any hazard from waterborne asbestos?

hazard to who or what?

you have raised an important question when you consider that most of the asbestos released from the 9/11 attack will end up in the marine environment.

i know there are more immediate concerns surrounding the 9/11 attack, but while we're on the subject - i can only hope that you are right



set,
opinari

 

[Gamakatsu]

Opinari,

Studies have shown that abestos disperses to undectable levels in the water very quickly. It is not like oil or a chemical contaminent that can wreak havoc over the area that it is spilled. The danger with airborne abestos is that particles are breathed into the lungs and that's where the problems begin. Undisturbed asbestos is not a danger either. Most of us grew up with abestos in our schools and I have yet to hear of a case of abestos related cancer from this. The people who are suffering are those that actually worked with it, cutting it, installing it, etc.

Gamakatsu

 

[Scalawag]

Hey Doctorfish, thanks fot the link with the picts. of the subwaycars being pushed into the water but you sure those are NYC subway cars??
Theres no graffiti!!!! also hope all the straphangers got out.
Alan

 

[Capt. Marc]

Hi,

I guess there may be a bright side to it. Possibly the fluke, seabass, blackfish and other fish may hold over down south and fatten up over the winter when fishing pressure may be light. Then when the water warms up the will head up this way a little heavier then before.

Any reef building is an asset and has long reaching effects. Better to be placed somewhere where it can be used, then a land fill or scrap heap.

I am supprise that they just toss them over vs lowering them to the bottom. You would think some biologist would say which way they should be placed on the bottom to make the best reef.

Capt. Marc