HI GUYS WHATS UP,IM HERE TO TALK ABOUT A VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC.fIRST OFF ALL WHICH SIZE FISH IS MORE IMPORTANT FOR REPLENISHING THE STRIPED BASS POPULATION.(A)24 INCH BASS OR (B) A 36 INCH BASS.I HAVE READ THAT THE BIGGER THEY ARE THE MORE EGGS THEY LAY.IN FLORIDA THEY GOT THE RIGHT IDEA WITH THE RED FISH,,,YOU CAN KEEP 5 FISH ANYWHERE FROM 20 -27 INCHES ,,ANY FISH SMALLER OR LARGER THAN THE LIMIT HAS TO GO BACK.I THINK THAT THE DEC SHOULD ADOPT THIS IDEA FOR THE STRIPED BASS FISHERY UP HERE IN NEW YORK BUT INSTEAD OF KEEPING 5 FISH MAYBE THEY CAN ALLOW 2-3 FISH KEPT BETWEEN 20 -27 INCHES.WITH THIS FISH LIMIT THOSE HUGE COWS CAN BE SET FREE TO LAY MILLIONS OFF EGGS AND FIGHT ANOTHER DAY.AND IF ANYONE IS CAUGHT WITH A COW IN THERE POSSESION THEY SHALL BE GIVEN A VERY LARGE FINE.TO ME THESE LARGE FISH ARE MUCH MORE VALUABLE FOR THE FISHERY.WHOS WITH ME?
STRIPED BASS REGULATION IDEA
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Joined
·
13,099 Posts
TheBassblaster, I might be with you, although I'm not too sure about this never being able to keep a big fish thing, however, on the punishment side of it, there are a lot of people with plenty of dough so fines might not deter them, so how about we bring back “cruel & unusual punishments”, maybe something along the lines of public flogging, I could go for that.
MakoMatt
MakoMatt
It works in freshwater, but they don't migrate. If all states from NC to ME could agree on say 2 between 24" and 30", whether on head boat or privately owned...
I would like to see something like this for fluke, perhaps 4 between 15 and 20, but same thing, Delaware eats or used to eat (weak?)fish not much bigger than fingerlings! But what have we done to the bays and sound!? I think if we stopped hiring gardeners who overuse fertilizer and use pesticide, plant drought-proof zoysia and mow our own lawns with mulching bl.....but no, that would be heresy!
I would like to see something like this for fluke, perhaps 4 between 15 and 20, but same thing, Delaware eats or used to eat (weak?)fish not much bigger than fingerlings! But what have we done to the bays and sound!? I think if we stopped hiring gardeners who overuse fertilizer and use pesticide, plant drought-proof zoysia and mow our own lawns with mulching bl.....but no, that would be heresy!
HEY MAKO MATT WE ALL KNOW WHY WE KEEP BIG STRIPERS AND ITS BECAUSE WE WANT TO TAKE IT HOME AND SHOW IT OFF TO THE NEIGHBORS ,FAMILY AND FRIENDS .AND WHO KNOWS MAYBE IN A FEW YEARS THERE WOULD BE ENOUGH TROPHIES AROUND FOR THE TABLE.I MEAN WHICH WOULD YOU PREFER THE YOUNG MEAT OR THE OLD? ( A DISPOSABLE CAMERA AND A BOGA GRIP ARE VERY HANDY IN THESE SITUATIONS)
First things first
before we all start talking about changing regulations. I think we should start talking about a better way to enforce the ones we have now. I have seen way to many people leaving with one to many fish, and under sized fish. I think people should start to be more out spoken when seeing these rules being broken. Thats my opinion.
before we all start talking about changing regulations. I think we should start talking about a better way to enforce the ones we have now. I have seen way to many people leaving with one to many fish, and under sized fish. I think people should start to be more out spoken when seeing these rules being broken. Thats my opinion.
Joined
·
547 Posts
Personally, I am a catch and releaser. I do not take any fish home but agree with blaster with taking the smaller fish over the larger to put more eggs out there for more fish. I enjoy catching more fish over just catching one.
BY THE WAY HAS ANYONE NOTICED THE EXPLOSION OF SCHOOLIE BASS THIS YEAR?
I MUST HAVE HIT 15 - 20 BLITZES THIS YEAR AND ONLY ONE OF THEM INVOLVED BIG FISH!THESE SCHOOLIES GOTTA BE PUT ON CHECK!FROM LATE SEPTEMBER TILL EARLY DECEMBER ME AND MY YOUNGER BROTHER WERE CATCHING SCHOOLIES EVERY SINGLE AFTERNOON AT OUR LOCAL BEACH.TALK ABOUT A COMEBACK.
I MUST HAVE HIT 15 - 20 BLITZES THIS YEAR AND ONLY ONE OF THEM INVOLVED BIG FISH!THESE SCHOOLIES GOTTA BE PUT ON CHECK!FROM LATE SEPTEMBER TILL EARLY DECEMBER ME AND MY YOUNGER BROTHER WERE CATCHING SCHOOLIES EVERY SINGLE AFTERNOON AT OUR LOCAL BEACH.TALK ABOUT A COMEBACK.
The striped bass fishery is in excellent shape, and as long as we do not allow continued increases in mortality the big fish will return. There really is no need for such a drastic measure at this time. It is the single most successful fisheries management plan to date and as long as we stay on the conservative side, the fishery should continue to flourish.
noreast - that's a very nice and bold statement but I wonder what's it based upon? Do you have any numbers to back the claim that the bass fishery is in such an excellent shape? I've read some statistics and from what I remember ther are tons of rats around, but the number of bigger fish is so small that it's being omitted as statistically irrelevant. Does the excellent shape means that the party boat can limit with pathetic 10-15# fish within an hour? Is that what SPORT fishing community should be happy about?
stripers are in good shape
Stripers are now very abundant in rats and keeper size fish! Find the big bait and you will find big fish .In the last 10 years stripers have made a huge comeback .When it was 36 inch limit everyone complained there was no fish .Now there are so many fish around people want the 30 and 40 pounders back, like every night you should be able to catch one of that size .I go out and if I can get 36 inch fish, thats me!36 inch fish can reproduce at least twice .I say ok to letting the big ones go with just a picture taken. The small one taste better and a fish over 40 lbs really can lay 1 million eggs depending on if it was a good class year .But that is another discussion.
Stripers are now very abundant in rats and keeper size fish! Find the big bait and you will find big fish .In the last 10 years stripers have made a huge comeback .When it was 36 inch limit everyone complained there was no fish .Now there are so many fish around people want the 30 and 40 pounders back, like every night you should be able to catch one of that size .I go out and if I can get 36 inch fish, thats me!36 inch fish can reproduce at least twice .I say ok to letting the big ones go with just a picture taken. The small one taste better and a fish over 40 lbs really can lay 1 million eggs depending on if it was a good class year .But that is another discussion.
Joined
·
13,099 Posts
SrfCast, the term statistically irrelevant can have different meanings, but that aside for just a moment, let us say for the purpose of my question, that we go along with your incorrect assumption that there are not many of these bigger fish around. Keeping in mind your correct statement that there are tons of rats around, would it be logical to assume that based on the very restrictive allotments for both the commercial and recreational fishermen, that these rats will one day be big fish and then we will have tons of all sizes of fish? 
MakoMatt
MakoMatt
Yes and No
In most of the Striped Bass Technical committe reports I've seen, a fish of 15 yrs + is considered a large fish. But it is reportedly very difficult to track those fish as there are so few of them.
The striped bass population at the moment is fine. It becomes a question of how much we are willing to back off on the harvest in order to be able to see more large fish in the future. There was a graph issued with the Amendment 6 Public Information Document that showed how many large fish would be projected at lower fishing mortality levels. At the lower levels, we'd expect to see a much greater number of large fish.
But there's not reason to expect a lot. You'd think, if we've seen some of the largest recorded spawns of all time, then going forward, we should see more large bass than ever. But at the current fishng mortality levels, thats not what's predicted, in fact, what you saw in the early - mid 90s is about as good as its gonna get for large fish.
As for the future, thats a crap shoot. Hey, in 1999 folks were talking about the stock market like it could only go up. People are like that. They only look at the last few years and discount all the history. No different in fisheries. I remember getting cold calls from brokers in the late 90's trying to sell me some net garbage stock talking like they knew it all. But they did not know what the term stagflation meant. Some didnt even go back as far as the days or Drexel Burnham Lambert. But they knew it all. Just like the angler who just started fishing bass in the 90's. Best fishing in 20 years. yeah, like as if '83 was so good for bass.
Anyways...
We do know that the fishery can also give us back to back to back bad years of spawning - as in close to 20 odd years of bad spawns. Thats a matter of public record. Are you SURE that can never happen again? Course not.
Getting back that question - how much we are willing to back off on the harvest in order to be able to see more large fish in the future? Well that answer is already been decided for you, the answer is NOT AT ALL.
So enjoy what we got coming and hope mother nature doesnt repeat herself.
In most of the Striped Bass Technical committe reports I've seen, a fish of 15 yrs + is considered a large fish. But it is reportedly very difficult to track those fish as there are so few of them.
The striped bass population at the moment is fine. It becomes a question of how much we are willing to back off on the harvest in order to be able to see more large fish in the future. There was a graph issued with the Amendment 6 Public Information Document that showed how many large fish would be projected at lower fishing mortality levels. At the lower levels, we'd expect to see a much greater number of large fish.
But there's not reason to expect a lot. You'd think, if we've seen some of the largest recorded spawns of all time, then going forward, we should see more large bass than ever. But at the current fishng mortality levels, thats not what's predicted, in fact, what you saw in the early - mid 90s is about as good as its gonna get for large fish.
As for the future, thats a crap shoot. Hey, in 1999 folks were talking about the stock market like it could only go up. People are like that. They only look at the last few years and discount all the history. No different in fisheries. I remember getting cold calls from brokers in the late 90's trying to sell me some net garbage stock talking like they knew it all. But they did not know what the term stagflation meant. Some didnt even go back as far as the days or Drexel Burnham Lambert. But they knew it all. Just like the angler who just started fishing bass in the 90's. Best fishing in 20 years. yeah, like as if '83 was so good for bass.
Anyways...
We do know that the fishery can also give us back to back to back bad years of spawning - as in close to 20 odd years of bad spawns. Thats a matter of public record. Are you SURE that can never happen again? Course not.
Getting back that question - how much we are willing to back off on the harvest in order to be able to see more large fish in the future? Well that answer is already been decided for you, the answer is NOT AT ALL.
So enjoy what we got coming and hope mother nature doesnt repeat herself.
Very well said John.
MakoMatt - Short answer is no. It wouldn't be logical to assume that we'll have more bigger fish in the future because that's not what numbers and historical data show. If you don't believe in hard data, read the "Trophy Striper" and go catch those non existing 50s from record year classes Frank D. wrote about. And BTW why would you say that current allotments are very restrictive? Comparing to what...moratorium?
paddy - I'm afraid that what you call keeper size I call rats, That's where's the confusion
MakoMatt - Short answer is no. It wouldn't be logical to assume that we'll have more bigger fish in the future because that's not what numbers and historical data show. If you don't believe in hard data, read the "Trophy Striper" and go catch those non existing 50s from record year classes Frank D. wrote about. And BTW why would you say that current allotments are very restrictive? Comparing to what...moratorium?
paddy - I'm afraid that what you call keeper size I call rats, That's where's the confusion
Joined
·
13,099 Posts
Srfcast, what I mean by restrictive allotments is what we presently have in New York right now, 1 – minimum size 28” fish per person, per day, with the season being May 8th. thru December 15th. It’s hard to get any more restrictive then that without a total moratorium on the fish. I have no problem with this, as 1 fish per day is more then enough for the table, and catch and release is fun, after all, we are sportsman correct?
As to large fish, yes, 50#, 60#, and up fish are very scarce, but there are plenty of fish in the 20#, 30#, and 40# class. Above that and I consider them to be VERY large fish. I have caught, and know plenty of people that have caught these 20 – 40# class fish.
Fishing being what it is, an activity that requires a certain amount of skill, knowledge, and luck, to excel at, has left many people feeling that there are not many of these 20 – 40# class fish simply because they have not, nor do they know anyone who catches these fish. Even in the best of times we have seen, not many people catch the big fish. I would even venture to say that a very high % of people don’t catch any fish at all most of the time they go.
Historical data can be of tremendous value when trying to evaluate stocks and plan for the future, however, I don’t think we have ever seen such a resurgence in stocks as we are presently seeing right now. I have been Bass fishing for over 40 years, and have never seen the populations of fish the way they are today. It is not uncommon now to fish a few hours on a tide and catch, 25 –50 or more fish, many times, all legal size too. This was unheard of years ago. I think we are seeing something that combined with the allotments, will help to insure that we will improve the stocks of big fish in the future, but that’s just my humble opinion, I’m not in that line of work. Make no mistake though, there will probably never be great numbers of the big fish, that’s just the way it is, and there are 1001 reasons why, it’s survival of the fittest.
Just my $.02
MakoMatt
As to large fish, yes, 50#, 60#, and up fish are very scarce, but there are plenty of fish in the 20#, 30#, and 40# class. Above that and I consider them to be VERY large fish. I have caught, and know plenty of people that have caught these 20 – 40# class fish.
Fishing being what it is, an activity that requires a certain amount of skill, knowledge, and luck, to excel at, has left many people feeling that there are not many of these 20 – 40# class fish simply because they have not, nor do they know anyone who catches these fish. Even in the best of times we have seen, not many people catch the big fish. I would even venture to say that a very high % of people don’t catch any fish at all most of the time they go.
Historical data can be of tremendous value when trying to evaluate stocks and plan for the future, however, I don’t think we have ever seen such a resurgence in stocks as we are presently seeing right now. I have been Bass fishing for over 40 years, and have never seen the populations of fish the way they are today. It is not uncommon now to fish a few hours on a tide and catch, 25 –50 or more fish, many times, all legal size too. This was unheard of years ago. I think we are seeing something that combined with the allotments, will help to insure that we will improve the stocks of big fish in the future, but that’s just my humble opinion, I’m not in that line of work. Make no mistake though, there will probably never be great numbers of the big fish, that’s just the way it is, and there are 1001 reasons why, it’s survival of the fittest.
Just my $.02
MakoMatt
MakoMatt – you make some good points, but I can’t agree
If you look at NY the allotments may be restrictive and I’m sure we could even increase the bag limits to 2 fish (which is very likely going to happen here and up the coast due to Amendment 6) without great impact on fishery, but unfortunately fish are known to cross the state borders. NJ with its 1 million anglers, no closed season, 24” minimum and 3 fish limit kills as many bass as 3 states combined. Comms sell the tags they were issued for small Chesapeake Bay fish to others fishing open ocean who slaughter big fish legally in mind boggling numbers. Does that sound like restrictive allotments.
As for the presence of big fish I’m afraid that our personal experience means nothing and is not a reliable gauge of what’s happening. My view on the matter is that the number of fish is great, but because of the high pressure on the stock the bigger fish are being removed at much greater pace than they could grow. We had some great spawning years in the past and big fish from those years should be here in great numbers, but the truth is that the fish were almost totally removed that’s why statistics don’t show them and that’s why it’s easier to catch 1000 10-15# schoolies than one 40-50# fish.
If the striped bass fishery is in such an excellent shape than how many surf caught 50s were pictured in the trophy section of Noreast this year. What about NY contests – so many sharpies there – how many fish over 40# this year? Surf editor says that couple of years ago more 40# were reports in 1 week than in entire 2002.
Does that look like the fishery is in such a great shape to you?
If you look at NY the allotments may be restrictive and I’m sure we could even increase the bag limits to 2 fish (which is very likely going to happen here and up the coast due to Amendment 6) without great impact on fishery, but unfortunately fish are known to cross the state borders. NJ with its 1 million anglers, no closed season, 24” minimum and 3 fish limit kills as many bass as 3 states combined. Comms sell the tags they were issued for small Chesapeake Bay fish to others fishing open ocean who slaughter big fish legally in mind boggling numbers. Does that sound like restrictive allotments.
As for the presence of big fish I’m afraid that our personal experience means nothing and is not a reliable gauge of what’s happening. My view on the matter is that the number of fish is great, but because of the high pressure on the stock the bigger fish are being removed at much greater pace than they could grow. We had some great spawning years in the past and big fish from those years should be here in great numbers, but the truth is that the fish were almost totally removed that’s why statistics don’t show them and that’s why it’s easier to catch 1000 10-15# schoolies than one 40-50# fish.
If the striped bass fishery is in such an excellent shape than how many surf caught 50s were pictured in the trophy section of Noreast this year. What about NY contests – so many sharpies there – how many fish over 40# this year? Surf editor says that couple of years ago more 40# were reports in 1 week than in entire 2002.
Does that look like the fishery is in such a great shape to you?
Joined
·
5,904 Posts
Matty,
I have to agree with SRFCAST,two years ago in the fall there was dozens of 40# class fish outside Debs under the bunker schools.I wasn't so lucky but the action lasted about 2 weeks with big fish in close.This year there was only a handful caught or reported.Weather might of caused some of the poor results (also maybe LILFISH)but I think it goes deeper than that.
paulie
I have to agree with SRFCAST,two years ago in the fall there was dozens of 40# class fish outside Debs under the bunker schools.I wasn't so lucky but the action lasted about 2 weeks with big fish in close.This year there was only a handful caught or reported.Weather might of caused some of the poor results (also maybe LILFISH)but I think it goes deeper than that.
paulie
186logic – I like your idea very much. It would allow people who like to eat bass to keep the fish and they could still weight the cow of the lifetime. The problem is that nothing’s gonna change no matter how good our ideas are. There’s just too much $$$ involved. The rec industry feels that the more fish are in the coolers the more $ people are going to spend (personally I think they’re completely wrong, but like I said it doesn’t matter what we think). As far as comms are concerned they’d have to be crazy to limit themselves and loose $$$. There was the chance to change things with the Amendment 6 instead we got status quo so if you want tougher regulations here the only thing it’d change that fish would end up in coolers in other states or in the nets … so why bother?
Time to get light tackle for tomorrows 15# “trophies” I’m sure there will be tons of those. I really hope I’m wrong and sorry for the rant.
Time to get light tackle for tomorrows 15# “trophies” I’m sure there will be tons of those. I really hope I’m wrong and sorry for the rant.
Joined
·
1,545 Posts
Just a couple of points to add here.
New Jersey has no closed season, and a two fish limit (one slot, on larger fish). It is my understanding that they do not give out commercial tags like NY does. Therefore, the longer season and two fish limit in NJ.
The thing that I can't help thinking about when it comes to the reduction in larger bass is the impact that the recreational sector, specifically the party/charter boat fleet has on stocks. Every day the guys out in Montauk return to dock with their limit of bass for the boat (at least it seems that way from what I have seen with my own eyes, and from all of the reports). Do the math, just in Montauk alone , there are probably 20-25 boats at least that go out every day (120-150 days/year), and average 5-10 fish per boat. I'm sure the same scenario exists up and down the Striper Coast. I know most of those fish are in the 15#-25# range, but if we keep culling out fish of that size, is it any wonder that the bigger fish seem to be disappering?
I'm not at all blaming the problem on only the recreational sector, we all know that the commercial sector harvest way more fish than we do.
But if we could cut down on the number of 15#-25# fish we catch, wouldn't that make a big difference down the road?
Just some thoughts.
New Jersey has no closed season, and a two fish limit (one slot, on larger fish). It is my understanding that they do not give out commercial tags like NY does. Therefore, the longer season and two fish limit in NJ.
The thing that I can't help thinking about when it comes to the reduction in larger bass is the impact that the recreational sector, specifically the party/charter boat fleet has on stocks. Every day the guys out in Montauk return to dock with their limit of bass for the boat (at least it seems that way from what I have seen with my own eyes, and from all of the reports). Do the math, just in Montauk alone , there are probably 20-25 boats at least that go out every day (120-150 days/year), and average 5-10 fish per boat. I'm sure the same scenario exists up and down the Striper Coast. I know most of those fish are in the 15#-25# range, but if we keep culling out fish of that size, is it any wonder that the bigger fish seem to be disappering?
I'm not at all blaming the problem on only the recreational sector, we all know that the commercial sector harvest way more fish than we do.
But if we could cut down on the number of 15#-25# fish we catch, wouldn't that make a big difference down the road?
Just some thoughts.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
