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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Whats the difference between hollow core spectra (Jerry Brown ex.) and Braided spectra?
Can you use braid for backing as you would use hollow core? If no,why?

This way of spooling is all new to me...Going to invest in 2 30w's and would want to set them up like this, just would like some info first....Thanks...again :confused:
 

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All spectra is braided so to speak. It is either hollow core or solid.

The major disadvantage in using solid spectra is you need to tie knots to make the connection to the mono wind on or topshot.

When using hollow core there are no knots in the system. Using loop to loop connections between the braid mainline and the mono or cable topshot/wind on there is no chance for failure at that connection. It is more flexible for different types of fishing. You can change brands of mono, type of mono, weight of mono and the length of the wind on or topshot easily. Hollow spectra is more costly initially. In the long run, hollow spectra is the better option since it can last up to and beyond 7 years. You can easily change out the wind on or topshot as it gets damaged or cut back with out having to re-spool the entire reel with mono. Should the spectra become damaged, using hollow core spectra you could splice a new length on and fill the reel back up to capacity without any knots.

So to answer your question you could use solid spectra for "backing" but you will need to use knots to make all of your wind on and topshot connections. Better to use hollow core as the primary line on the reel with easily interchangeable topshots and windons.

Thanks.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks alot, very helpful.
Next question, any pics on the "loop to loop connection"? or any other ways of connecting the hollow core to mono topshots?
 

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Yes you could insert the mono into the hollow spectra like the dacron to mono splice used. Then serve the end where the mono goes into the spectra with half hitches of dental floss or spectra. There are also serving tools made to complete that connection as well. The down side to this is it is time consuming and requires hollow needles to get the mono into the spectra. It is a 100% connection as well.

Diagrams for all of these connections can be found on Basil Pappas (BHP Tackle website) BHP Tackle.

Feel free to call us at the shop if you need any questions answered.

Hope this helps.
 

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NewLove wrote:
thanks alot, very helpful.
Next question, any pics on the "loop to loop connection"? or any other ways of connecting the hollow core to mono topshots?

I can't justify spooling with thicker and more costly hollow core spectra for the sake of a single < 20 ft splice.. not to mention that IMHO a chinese finger in hollow spectra is much more difficult and much less reliable than a bimini loop to bimini loop or a chinese finger dacron to mono.

Myself I use wind-on rods and a bimini loop to bimini loop for splices between spectra and mono. It's nearly a 100% knot and is easy once you get the hang of it, tried and true.

Actually if you are spooling with 80# and not 150# like me even the standard Aftco HD's can deal with most 80# mono bimini's fine and you don't even need wind-on's.

Another option without wind-on rods for keeping splice diameter low without going to hollow core spectra is bimini loop in spectra to a bimini or spliced loop in dacron to a chinese finger dacron to mono.

Now that last option is complicated in a way, however it's reliable and instead of spooling with 500 yards of hollow core you can pick a good (reliable) but cheap spectra like Tuff Line XP (or whatever is on sale) and can then just add < 50 feet of dacron to make a low profile and reliable splice.

Jon
 

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I don't understand why everyone wants to spool such heavy line on for backing. It seems unsporting to me to increase line strenghth when your drag setting can't go any higher. I mean, it sucks to lose fish, but I have yet to see a line part any other place than the crimp or knot (or where the leader gets bitten or slashed). As for getting spooled by the fish, I think you have a better chance at slowing down a big fish with 800 yards of mono than you do with 1000 yards of spectra due to the drag through the water that the mono puts up. If you are fishing a 30 wide you can't put much more than 15lb of drag on without overtaxing the reel, unless it is speciffically designed to put on more drag (like and Accurate). If you want to put the stops on a big fish you still have to go with a big reel.

BTW if you use 130# backing and a 50# top shot you are fishing with 130# test according to the IGFA. And for those of you who think the IGFA is nonsense, I will say this: without rules fishing is no longer a sport. Bringing home a nice slab of meat is a great thing, but we find that we get plenty of meat using 30# test on 30's, 50# on 50's etc.

I am putting Dacron backing on all my reels this year for three reasons: 1) Dacron has similar diameter to nylon and splices easily. 2) Dacron does not stretch like nylon so it gives you a better connection to the fish when a lot of line is out & it does not put as much compression force on your reel spool (this pressure distorts the spool and changes your drag pressure during the fight). 3) Dacron lasts much longer than mono, so less to change season to season.

It is important to note that even with backing you need to unwind it all from the reel to wash it & dry it, then re-install it. So it is no question more work and more money up front than straight mono.
 

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When I am fighting a fish, I find that the hollow core with a 25 yard top shot works best. I feel like I have a lot more control over the fish than with mono. It seems to me that trying to turn the fishes head while running is a lot easier due to the lack of stretch. As far as "sport" is concerned...maybe it is more sporting to use lighter mono....personally I have a really messed up back and want that fish in the boat quick and the hollow core has been helping me do just that. Of course all of this is what works best for ME and is what I AM MOST comfortable with. There's nothing wrong with fishing straight mono...If thats what you like than go for it. The bottom line is...A lot of people make it seem as if there is a right and a wrong way to do everything and that just isnt always the case.

Newlove: If you feel like giving the hollow core a shot...GO FOR IT!
and do give John at Trophy a call if you have the time. He's an objective guy and is full of lots of usefull info.

Asiegel: You dont understand why?...Some just like it...its that simple. I dont understand why so many men are wearing flamboyant tight shirts these days either...:rolleyes:;)

This post edited by BLUEFISH9 12:13 PM 01/23/2008
 

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People are not doing it to be unsporty but to be more effective..

If you catch a big fish and say you want to release it..

compare a 1 hour fight with a big blue marlin to a 5 hour fight.

The time it takes to get any fish in has a total effect on their living or dieing at this time.. As most do not think that way that is the only reasonable explanation and also i do it for tournaments.. you dont want to wait much time on fish.. with 100lb jerry brown and a 130 lb top shot a 50 lb tuna is like fighting a snapper on a 16vsx.

Is it a walk in the park which you want since you got to be fishing as fast as possible you dont want to lose time on a small fish!

IMHO!
 

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Sportfishingusa wrote:
The time it takes to get any fish in has a total effect on their living or dieing at this time.. As most do not think that way that is the only reasonable explanation and also i do it for tournaments.. you dont want to wait much time on fish.. with 100lb jerry brown and a 130 lb top shot a 50 lb tuna is like fighting a snapper on a 16vsx.


So you are saying that 15lb of drag using spectra beats a fish faster than 15lb of drag on mono?

If stretch is a factor then BLUEFISH9 has the answer: short topshot. NewLove can do whatever he wants, but few people have hit on the topic of line class records & that's why I brought it up here.

IGFA clearly defines line strength by the strongest section of main line. So, if you want to set a line class record you have to use the lighter backing & hollow core doesn't even come in the lighter line classes.

Personally I would like to have a shot at a line class record, because I'm in it for the sport.

BTW we have been able to land very large fish pretty quickly on light line by using good technique. We have not yet had a fish come up dead due to an extended fight. Not only that, but as I said before, your reel can only put out so much drag & same with your rod, so what is the point of putting 130 backing on a 50 setup, especially if your mono is going to be 50 or 80?
 

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asiegel wrote:
Personally I would like to have a shot at a line class record, because I'm in it for the sport.

Then I hope you're using IGFA rated mono, becuase most "regular" mono will test at 20 to 30 pounds above rated strength!
 

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Yes, MM in fact all the Dacron I could find is rated for IGFA breaking strength. In a compromise with my meat hungry crew I have decided to put 80# Dacron on my 50 wides with "50#" mono topshot(probably tests at 70-80lb). So my setups will be bumped up a line class to satisfy the demands of tying (crappy) knots in the field, poor angling skills, abrasion, etc. I'm trying to juggle two conflicting concepts here without becoming too much of a hypocrite.
 

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Everything is rated for a reason and you are correct in fact everyone is correct. If you try to fill up a 30 wide which is light and more maneuvarable with 100lb mono what can you get on it? 200yrds?!??!

The entire point of spectra wether inshore, offshore, hollow, or solid it doesnt matter.. You are getting more line on your reel at a higher strengh and it is much longer lasting with no stretch.

You want some stretch when fishing fish because of their jaws and hooks but you do not want a lot.

If you used it you would understand as i used ot fish all mono but it became way to much.. you can not effectively hook alot of fish in a timely fashion like small whites and blues in the spread.

It all comes down to a preference and to be honest with you i have not used it much or experimented much with it but i used to work on a private sportfish and all we used was dacron and it wasnt bad..

To sum up the entire hype about Spectra and Braid for everyone is as follows.....

The power of briad and spectra is no different then that of mono except for the breaking strengh.. normal breaking strengh on mono is between 10-20 percent over depending on brand and what they claim their breaking strengh is.

Spectra and braid is slight higher than monor.

Also you can fit more 100lb jb on a 30 wide them you can 60lb mono.

The diamete is much smaller also allowing the use of smaller lighter reels and different rods and techniques.

Also when you get into a huge fish and the fish strips 400 yard off a reel you dont have to worry because you have about 900 yards to go!!

That is my opinio if is make sense siegel!!

haha hope it helps a little if not shame on me!
 

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Well I didn't mean to come off as anti-spectra!! I am anti-spectra backing on IGFA trolling reels. All my jigging rods use spectra with a 20-50 foot mono topshot. Spectra definitely fits well with a Shimano Torsa or similar and a matching rod.
 

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Siegel I just wanted to show you how long winded i can type!!lloll

The entire point of this is just basically higher breaking strengh and more capacity..

especially since most of your newer reels are coming out with spectra capacity!

Man i got all day to type.. i need to find a new business to start!
i think i got to much time! hahah

 

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I started using spectra this year and I'm converting all my reels over this winter.

If you don't want to use a heavy 130lb backing hollow core comes in 80lb as well. Its more expensive per yard than the 130lb but you can put a $h!t of it on a 30VSW. I fish all my reels with a 50 yard mono (momoi smoke) topshot over JB hollow core. My 16VSX's and 30VSW's are 80 backing with 80 topshots. My 50VSW's are 130 backing with 100 TS, and my 70VS's are 130 backing behind 130 TS. On the 50's and 70's I'll swap out the top shots for 400lb mono windons for sharking.

All the backings have looped ends and all the topshots are handcuffed to loops so they can be changed out or lighteded if needed. I feel I have all the line capacity I could ever want on any of these reels and have the option of tweaking up the drag if we need to get a fish in the boat in a hurry. Besides the less time it takes to put one in the boat the more time the other lines are in the water.

I haven't progressed yet to the point I want to "lighten up" and go for line class records or challenges. If thats your thing go for it. I would say though if your going to use a backing the spectra doesn't rot and my experiance (while limited) is that is doesn't tend to "dive" into the spool when the drags cranked up. I like the loop to loop/handcuff combination as it flows through all my guides easily without hanging up, I have had some difficulty in the past with biminis and certain line tests.

This post edited by carlynewlondon 07:32 PM 01/23/2008
 

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asiegel wrote:
I don't understand why everyone wants to spool such heavy line on for backing. It seems unsporting to me to increase line strenghth when your drag setting can't go any higher. I mean, it sucks to lose fish, but I have yet to see a line part any other place than the crimp or knot (or where the leader gets bitten or slashed).

Go trolling for bluefin tuna for example - the first fish may be 40 lbs and the next fish may be 800 lbs.. it's one of those deals when you never know WTF is gonna hit, not to mention we all can't buy reels 20 class through 130 class so our reels often do double-duty by changing drag settings.

So most of us want multi-purpose gear.. I tend to want something around a 50-80 IGFA class reel so I take a Penn 70 (instead of a set of 50W's and a set of 80W's), which are absolutely capable of 30-35 lbs on strike right out of the box, and I spool them with 130#..

They don't fit much line if you go with 130# mono or dacron so I use 300 yards of spectra backing and then top with mono (they take about another 275 yards easily)..

Don't get me wrong, I *HATE* spectra. Having a big fish on minus the stretch of mono is a good way to loose it, plus spectra is very poor abrasian-resistance wise..

I could also never have spectra mixed into my trolling spread as I'd be dropping $100 bars all the time (due to tangles).. however with the mono on top you get the stretch and with 275 yards you never see the spectra on average fish until you actually need the capacity for that bruiser.

Jon
 

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Screw the line class records.....PUT MEAT ON THE DECK!!


Seriously though if you want Basil had said in another thread that he believed the 80lb JB had a breaking strength at or near 80lb. 130 was way under rated. I use mostly 130lb because the 80 costs alot more and a 50 will hold a stupid amount of it. On my larger reels I'm still using Cortland Green Spot with mono top shots.
 

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tunaorlater wrote:
Screw the line class records.....PUT MEAT ON THE DECK!!


My kinda attitude...Let them plead their cases to the IGFA while Im home enjoying sashimi and steaks!
;)
 

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A few hollow spectra tips...

What sizes does this line come in and what is the comporable mono size that they mimic

Line One hollow spectra comes in 60-80-100-130-200-300-500-800-1000lb test. Mono equivalents are 20-25-30-40-60-130-200-300-400lb

thinking of refilling next year with 75% braid with a top shot of mono...will be put on 50s... do you use uni to uni or Chinese finger?

Since this is hollow line, a whole range of knotless connections and splices can be made. No knots to fail. As your mono topshot wears out, just replace it with another, yet keep that hollow backing on your reel for years to come. I have some reels going into their 8th season. The most I ever had to do is re-splice my end loop, or strip off 20-30 yards and splice on a new section of hollow line. Splice that is, no knot. 100% line strength.

A common question is why can't I just insert the mono topshot right into my main line? After all, I only fish 80lb test. The answer is, yes you can do that but when it comes time to change that topshot, it will take you quite a bit of time to do it, and you won't be doing it on the boat. The second approach and the one I prefer is the use of a loop-to-loop connection. That is, splice a 100% end loop on the end of your reel's main line. This is not a bimini or some other knot, it is a way to invert the line into itself and then lock it, so the spliced end loop cannot pull out. Here is a link to an excellent 3 page thread on that topic.

OK, once you have that loop on your reel, you put a second piece of spectra on the back of your mono topshot, with another loop. You can pre-make these in the winter or buy them pre-made, and have them ready to go. Changing a topshot using a loop-to-loop connection is simple and takes just under a minute. You can easily do this on a boat if you have to, getting you right back into the game with a brand new full reel of line, with no knots to fail.

Still, some anglers go back and say, well that sounds like a lot of work too, and I?m still going to insert my mono right into the main line. That works, but like I said, you're not going to be changing that connection too easily if you have to. The rod will most likely be set into a rod holder until you get back to the dock. The other major advantage of L-2-L connections is the ability to connect hollow spectra backing to a mono topshot that you could not possibly insert into your main line. For example, a hot shark tournament setup developed by a very well-known NJ charter captain is using a 25-foot 530lb X-HARD wind-on leader connected to his reel's 130lb hollow main spectra line via a L-2-L connection, crimped to his shark rig. No topshot at all. You would never be able to insert 530lb mono into your spectra, but with loop connections you have a wide range of options depending on what you're fishing for. After shark season, cut off the wind-on and loop on a topshot. Getting into a mad-dog bigeye bite and wish you had heavier line? Cut off that 80b topshot and loop on a 130lb'er in seconds. Snag a pot or tangle? Cut off the old, loop on a new. Taking your reels out west to do some long-range fishing with short heavy topshots? Same drill.

Line One has just come out with a 100lb hollow braid line that will test well under 130lb for strict IGFA rule fishing, and still allow you to splice your connections. Spectra should be wound on tight, using 6-8lb of even, consistent drag. Use a Heiliger super-knot, aka double sandiego knot, for arbor connections. Take the main line around the reel spool twice, then follow the diagram. Wind evenly back and forth; no exaggerated criss-cross is required.

Tools required for working with this line and making your own splices are a good set of needles to insert mono, some #7 wire to make loop puller or line splicing needles, and some adhesives and serving tools. The point where the mono enters the spectra will have to be secured with what is known as a serve. Methods of serving monofilament to hollow spectra involve applying the traditional time-tested and still very good half hitches of waxed floss sealed with adhesive, or using an ultra thin spectra thread, applied under pressure, using a spinning bobbin. The result is a strong, low profile serve, designed to prevent the spectra from moving relative to the mono. The finger-trap will hold the mono inside the hollow line, but the serve is absolutely necessary to keep everything in place.

This post edited by ifish42na 09:58 PM 01/23/2008
 
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