NorEast Fishing Forum banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
looking to buy a side scanning sonar unit for my boat this year. does anyone have one on their boat, furuno makes some good ones but im looking for some more imput. this is strictley used for finding wrecks and bottom structure.the famous Jay porter used it and found alot of the wrecks we fish now. any info would be helpful thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,585 Posts
J.G.

The old style made by Kelvin Hughes, Krupp-Atlas, Simrad, and Elac, used a tube which was either fixed or dropped down. They where the way to go, but now, most side scan units use a towed fish, interfaced with computer software, that gives you a actual picture of what you are scanning, instead of the dark/light images combined with pinging sound when you hit a hard object.

Give me a day or so to research this. I don't hear of many fans of the Furuno unit for looking for wrecks. In California, the long range tuna fleet does like these units for looking for bait and pelagics.

Klein and a number of other small high tech electronic manufacturers design special torpedo liked units that you can use. It is all a matter of how much money you want to spend on these units.

GO here first>>>>Marine Sonic Technology, Ltd

EC NEWELL MAN><

This post edited by EC NEWELL MAN 08:51 PM 01/25/2008
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks for looking out steve, with the tighter regs this year i will have to do alot of bottom fishing to compinsate the fluke fishing, and as you know the sonar will pay for itself if you find one or two virgin spots with sea bass or tog or scup. there are alot of spots out there that have never been fished because they have never been found.so now im gonna have to look into this as another option to catch fish, thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
I am very interested in the feedback on the Furuno unit. We are considering putting one on a 38' downeast. it would be used in the canyon and on inshore wrecks.
a few years ago I fished a sport boat that had a Wesmar, if I recall correctly the installation was difficult and tuning the machine was not easy. I personally did not think it worked well in the situation it was used,but I don't think it wa adjusted correctly or had problems with teh ff transducer mounted too close. bottom line is 15k or so down the tube. My guess is if furuno has a unit available off the shelf it is more likely to be user friendly.
It would be great to get some feedback
thanks

Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
I believe that some posters here are confusing 2 different things.. furuno makes a forward viewing sonar that is used for spotting bait and schools of fish "almost" in the way a regular fish finder does.

a REAL sidescan sonar is not be made by furuno . a REAL side scan sonar is an entirely different beast then a "transducer mounted forward viewing sonar. " one that is lowered into the water and read off a pc or portable display .

sure it might make fishing easier but is it really that hard and worth it to fill a commercial limit of bottom fish in 2008 on a lesser known non generic piece ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,425 Posts
its called

debo45 wrote:
I believe that some posters here are confusing 2 different things.. furuno makes a forward viewing sonar that is used for spotting bait and schools of fish "almost" in the way a regular fish finder does.

a REAL sidescan sonar is not be made by furuno . a REAL side scan sonar is an entirely different beast then a "transducer mounted forward viewing sonar. " one that is lowered into the water and read off a pc or portable display .

sure it might make fishing easier but is it really that hard and worth it to fill a commercial limit of bottom fish in 2008 on a lesser known non generic piece ?

It's called a TOWFISH

Side-scan sonar (also sometimes called side scan sonar, sidescan sonar, side looking sonar, side-looking sonar and bottom classification sonar) is a category of sonar system that is used to create efficiently an image of large areas of the sea floor. This tool is used for mapping the seabed for a wide variety of purposes, including creation of nautical charts and detection and identification of underwater objects and bathymetric features. It may be used to conduct surveys for maritime archaeology; in conjunction with seafloor samples it is able to provide an understanding of the differences in material and texture type of the seabed. Side scan sonar imagery is also a commonly used tool to detect debris items and other obstructions on the seafloor that may be hazardous to shipping or to seafloor installations by the oil and gas industry. In addition, the status of pipelines and cables on the seafloor can be investigated using side scan sonar. Side scan data are frequently acquired with bathymetric soundings and sub-bottom data, thus providing a glimpse of the shallow structure of the seabed. Side scan sonar is also used for fisheries research, dredging operations and environmental studies. It also has military applications including mine detection.

Side scan uses a sonar device that emits fan-shaped pulses down toward the seafloor across a wide angle perpendicular to the path of the sensor through the water, which may be towed from a surface vessel or submarine, or mounted on the ship's hull. The intensity of the acoustic reflections from the seafloor of this fan-shaped beam is recorded in a series of cross-track slices. When stitched together along the direction of motion, these slices form an image of the sea bottom within the swath (coverage width) of the beam. The sound frequencies used in side-scan sonar usually range from 100 to 500 kHz; higher frequencies yield better resolution but less range.

One of the inventors of side scan sonar was German scientist, Dr. Julius Hagemann, who was brought to the US after WW II and worked at the US Navy Mine Defense Laboratory, Panama City, FL from 1947 until his death in 1964. His work is documented in US Patent 4,197,591 which was first disclosed in Aug 1958, but remained classified by the US Navy until it was finally issued in 1980. Experimental side scan sonar systems were made during the 1950s in laboratories including Scripps Institution of Oceanography and Hudson Laboratories and by Dr. Harold Edgerton at MIT.

Military side scan sonars were made in the 1950s by Westinghouse. Advanced systems were later developed and built for special military purposes, such as to find H-Bombs lost at sea or to find a lost Russian submarine, at the Westinghouse facility in Annapolis up through the 1990s. This group also produced the first and only working Angle Look Sonar that could trace objects while looking under the vehicle.

The first commercial side scan system was the Kelvin-Hughes "Transit Sonar", a converted echo-sounder with a single-channel, pole-mounted transducer introduced around 1960. In 1963 Dr. Harold Edgerton, Edward Curley, and John Yules used a side scan sonar to find the sunken Vineyard Lightship in Buzzards Bay, Massachusetts. A team led by Martin Klein at Edgerton, Germeshausen & Grier (later E.G. & G., Inc.) developed the first successful towed, dual-channel commercial side scan sonar system from 1963 to 1966. In 1967, Edgerton used Klein's sonar to help Alexander McKee find Henry VIII's flagship Mary Rose. That same year Klein used the sonar to help archaeologist George Bass find a 2000 year old ship off the coast of Turkey. In 1968 Klein founded Klein Associates, Inc. and continued to work on improvements including the first commercial high frequency (500 kHz) systems and the first dual-frequency side scan sonars. In 1985, Charles Mazel of Klein Associates produced the first commercial side scan sonar training videos and the first Side Scan Sonar Training Manual.

For surveying large areas, the GLORIA sidescan sonar was developed by Marconi Underwater Systems for NERC. This operated at relatively low frequencies to obtain long range. It was used by the US Geological Survey and the Institute of Oceanographics in the UK to obtain images of continental shelves world-wide.

Manufacturers of higher frequency side scan sonar systems include Raytheon, Northrop Grumman (formerly Westhinghouse), EdgeTech (formerly E.G. & G.), L-3/Klein Associates, J.W. Fishers Mfg. Inc., Imagenex Technology Corp., Reson A/S, Sonatech, Inc., Benthos (the sonar formerly produced by Datasonics), WESMAR, Marine Sonic Technology, Kongsberg Maritime, Geoacoustics, EDO Corp., Ultra Electronics,Humminbird (Techsonic Industries, Inc) and Deep Vision Technologies.

Up until the mid 1980s, commercial sidescan images were produced on paper records. The early paper records were produced with a sweeping plotter that burned the image into a scrolling paper record. Later plotters allowed for the simultaneous plotting of position and ship motion information onto the paper record. In the late 1980s, commercial systems using the newer, cheaper computer systems developed digital scan-converters that could mimimic more cheaply the analog scan converters used by the military systems to produce TV and computer displayed images of the scan, and store them on video tape. Now data is stored on computer hard drives.

See also ==
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Yes I understand the difference between the 2 types, I think cowkiller is referring to the furuno searchlight and not the tow behind type.
I am interested in feedback regarding the furuno searchlight sonar, I think the reference to sonar is loosely intrepreted, and anyone here really is not interested in towing the device.
thanks

Andrew

Debo, you make a good point, I would like to hear some input on say tuan fishing and locating bait in the water column, or schooling tuna
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
sharkdiver wrote:
Yes I understand the difference between the 2 types, I think cowkiller is referring to the furuno searchlight and not the tow behind type.
I am interested in feedback regarding the furuno searchlight sonar, I think the reference to sonar is loosely intrepreted, and anyone here really is not interested in towing the device.
thanks

Andrew

Debo, you make a good point, I would like to hear some input on say tuan fishing and locating bait in the water column, or schooling tuna

Ditto on all of the above.

I was looking for forward looking sonar. Humminbird has a unit. BUT I will wait until someone can suggest one here based on experience.

LooneyTunes
Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
I had a "search light" Furuno. Great for mid water looking, useless for finding a wreck. My $2000 Visat Scan did a better job. Maybe today they work better?

I have spent a little over a 100 days in the 20 years towing a sonar "Towfish" for different groups. Whether it be for bottom mapping or wreck hunting. Great images with precise location. Our best day in Mass Bay we found 13 wrecks in just over 5 hours.


I looked into buying one 10 years ago but could not justify the price, it was just over $100,000 for the package. No idea what it would cost today, probably less.

Have not thought about this in while, brings back some great memories with some incredible catches.

Greg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Hey Capt. Greg, thanks for the info.How long ago did you have the furuno searchlight? my understanding is the versions we are looking at are really new.really the only info we have received is from the saleman side and there website, and it seems they show bottom very well. I think the tow behinds have come down in price though I have never really looked into one, just have had casual conversations with some people looking at them.
when the comparison question of a 10 year old high def. wesmar unit came up to, the new furuno the response was they are night and day apart.
all we are trying to do here is get some actual use feedback from anyone that has installed and/or used one. At this point the hummingbird has not even been looked at by us.

thanks again

Andrew
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,923 Posts
Newer flashlights are of limited use in wreck finding- you are not going to bang a wreck from 800 yards like I do w/ my ELAC, but they make it easier for the close-in looking. If you're looking at areas, the flashlight will get your drops. If you want to find all the wrecks in the ocean, you will need to tow a fish, and dedicate some time to it. Look into the maximum speeds of the fish if you are considering that avenue.

Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
CaptPaul wrote:
If you want to find all the wrecks in the ocean, you will need to tow a fish, and dedicate some time to it. Look into the maximum speeds of the fish if you are considering that avenue.
Paul

Good point, I could only use one engine at idle or it would try to skip across the water. Armoured cable helped quite a bit but was triple the price.

Greg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
thanks for the input Capt. Paul. for the immediate future, towing the sidescan is ruled out and we are more focused on the late model furuno searchlight sonars.No not trying to searchout every wreck on the bottom, we will leave that to NOAA or WoodsHole. Getting on a piece better or quicker would likely be the more appropriate use for us, or sppeeding up a look around a set of general numbers we have. What are your thoughts and experience higher up the water column for baitballs/schools and tuna with regards to the searchlight sonar by Furuno?

thanks

Andrew
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,173 Posts
when i hear side sonar i think of hummingbirds units like mentioned by one poster. i have never used one but would think they would have to be amazing if they work in the manner they say they do. a machine like that could save anyone a world of time searching for structure. if i still had a boat i would definitely purchase one and give it a shot.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,923 Posts
I have limited experience w/ the searchlights, but they are certainly better suited, in fact primarily designed, for the mid-water location and discrimination of fish, for good distances. When you describe wanting to get on a drop faster, or grid out a set of possible numbers, they are very useful, too.

Tiderunner, the Hummingbord units are pretty cute. I say cute because they perform outstandingly, for a unit w/ relatively little power, and a very meager transducer, which, on many boats, will get masked. Especially since it's power cannot be focused like many of the flashlights, the Hummingbird probably isn't very effective at an appreciable distance from the boat, or at a depth much more than double digits.

Paul
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top