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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the "Jagger Death Plot" thread I started SurfStix made a point about our access being denied in spots the wealthy play. True. If those spots are town beaches we're probably SOL.

However, if you think there's a sweet spot that's privately owned...Two options. 1) Get a kayak. 2) Send a note to the owner asking for permission to fish. Deer hunters do it routinely. Sweeten the deal by offering to teach him/them what you know. Odds are they've been so busy making money and counting it that they have no idea what a Piscotorial Playground lies at the foot of their well manicured back lawn. Offer to consult on gear. You may get to go on the sickest shopping spree of all time. The well healed would think nothing of gearing up with top of the line everything across the board. In the end, you may end up with a friend, a fishing partner, and you're own private access. One can dream anyway.
 

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high tide line is public domain. Just getting to it is a problem often. Most of these people think if they can see the sound they own it and the property. You need to call them on it sometimes. If you're parked legally (10 speed in back of a pickup truck can extend your reach) then the water is yours. I fish a Brookhaven beach and have the permits and still people say "It's private property". I tell them politelly
to call the cops. When they show up and your permits are in order, they learn they are not running the show nor own any beaches...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's so funny. I did some cycle tour on the LI Sound along the CT coast last spring. I was thinking the same thing with regards to a bike. No place to park...but if I could figure out a way to do it by bike I could hit a lot of really cool spots along the shore there.
 

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MaxKatt1 wrote:
That's so funny. I did some cycle tour on the LI Sound along the CT coast last spring. I was thinking the same thing with regards to a bike. No place to park...but if I could figure out a way to do it by bike I could hit a lot of really cool spots along the shore there.

I do it once in awhile.. pi$$es them off when they can't ticket your bike
Usually there are plenty of public parking spots close enough to whip out the old 10 speed, and the beaches are open and empty.. of course respect it and clean up after yourself but the high tide line is public domain for good reason. In fact pull up in a kayak with your boom box on full volume after 10 AM and laugh while they listen to your love songs
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
SurfStix! I got that part. I'm talking about pedaling in waders, with a plug bag around your neck and holding 9'pole!

I know it can be done. Old camping backpack, stuff everything in. I've seen rod holders that can be strapped to rear hub of bike or somehting.

I do it for fresh water. Mt. Bike back to were the virgin waters are. Rod's break down into 4 pieces in canister. Surf rod presents new challenge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Surfstix- Is that a real pic of your bikes? If the rust colored one is a Trek 4900 I have the same ride. I recently got a dual suspension (getting too old for the bumps), but I still have the Trek.
 

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I have a VW Jetta so a BMX bike will have to do. I can just imagine myself riding a BMX wearing waders with a 10' rod and my surf bag. I think any kids may just call me some names I last heard in JR high ( i was cool in high school
).

Bob, you said high tide mark is public domain. It is actually the mean high tide mark so when they tell you it is 6 feet higher than they say they're full of it, that was from a storm ;). You must also remember that if the beach is obstructed at or below this mark you have the right to cross this section in any way you can safely. This means, by law, you can go on to their property to circumvent these obstructions. Usually they are put up by the landowner and those are the ones who have the problem with it so be careful.

There is one guy on the way to the outflow who has a NO TRESSPASSING sign on one of the walls up blocking the beach. I step over that sign itslf just on spite.
 

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Frankie you are correct.

We've had several run ins with a lawyer who bought a house overlooking a brookhaven beach. He constructed a fence right in the middle of the public beach with "no trespassing signs". We use these sings for cutting bait.:) The fence was trampled ). He actually came up to me and said I was fishing on private property. I told him I am a resident and have the permits. I explained to him the high tide rule that extends well beyond where I was fishing. He confided in me that he knew the law. He asked me to move, I told him to call the cops. He says " I know you're allowed to be here, but don't tell your friends about this place"


anybody with a Brookhaven pass feel free to PM me. ;)

This post edited by likeitreallyis 09:43 AM 03/08/2008
 

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You are allowed to walk or fish below the Mean High Water mark or Mean High Tide Line. This is the average high tide. A full moon high tide or a severe storm high tide would be the Maximum.
You have an absolute right to be on the beach. Nobody owns the water (except for a few fisherman I have met). If the beach is blocked below this and you cannot pass safely you are permitted by law to get by by any means necessary. Nobody has the right to block safe access.

This post edited by frankiesurf 02:21 PM 03/09/2008
 

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This was a letter that I had published in a local paper last fall. It outlines our access rights.

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An article about the Shoreham Town Beach that appeared in the November 15th issue of The Community Journal made numerous references to the beaches adjoining the public beach as ?private property?. It should be clarified that beachfront property owners own only the land above the Mean High Water Mark (MHWM). This line is calculated by an average of all high tides, including the unusually high tides that occur near the Full and New Moons, and the often very high storm-driven tides. Since these extreme highs are averaged in, the MHWM is well above the weed line that is deposited by typical high tides. The beach below the MHWM belongs to the state, and the public?s right to access it is protected under the Public Trust Doctrine.
The Public Trust Doctrine is a legal principle derived from English Common Law. The essence of the doctrine is that the waters of the state are a public resource owned by and available to all citizens equally for the purposes of navigation, conducting commerce, fishing, recreation, and similar uses and that this trust is not invalidated by private ownership of the underlying land.
Note the reference to ?fishing?. One suggestion made in the Community Journal article is that the Shoreham Town Beach be moved and be made ?limited to a bathing beach only?. While it is certainly reasonable to set aside a section of beach during the summer months for bathing for safety reasons, to try to eliminate fishing from the beaches of Shoreham would be illegal under the Public Trust Doctrine. As long as fishermen stay below the MHWM, they can fish legally anywhere along the beach.
The article identifies litter as a major problem at the Shoreham beach. This problem hasn?t been limited to Shoreham, and it?s a disgrace. But this is an illegal activity which should be combated with enforcement of our laws and perhaps educating the growing segment of our society that seems to think it?s OK to use our beaches as a garbage dump. It is inexcusable that the Shoreham Town Beach is often gated shut, even in the middle of the day. Other townships are dealing with the litter problem without restricting beach access. Law-abiding, taxpaying citizens of the Town of Brookhaven deserve the same consideration.

John Skinner
 

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That explains it much better than I could. Thanks.

One hypothetical question though. If I went down to Robert Moses and was tossing some plugs outside the red flags since nobody is allowed to swim there. If a blitz started up between the green flags and noone was swimming could I legally, due to the Public Trust Doctrine and as long as there were no swimmers in the area, start fishing there also? This is considering that swimmer safety was not a concern.

I had , in the past, been forced by the lifeguards to fish further down the beach because I was too close to the bathing area even though I was nowhere near any bathers. I did comply just out of respect but was annoyed at their request.
 

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bucktail wrote:
well put John! Any resident of East or Southampton Town should research the Dongen Patent to understand their rights that go far beyond the State law.


In addition to the Public Trust doctrine, which makes public any American beach up to the high-water mark, Southamptonites enjoy further access rights on the beach stemming from a 17th-century document called the Dongen patent, which extends the public property to the highest crest of the leeward dunes, so that we may access seaweed and shellfish and such.



 
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