Seals = No Flounder
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CAPT.XXX - A friend of mine, who knows fishing pretty darn good, said the same thing. It is a simple matter of whether the seals will persue them. There sure are enough reports of seals in the grounds, so it can't be denied as at least a factor, if they do have a liking for them.
He mentioned too, that he saw them come up to the surface with them.
He mentioned too, that he saw them come up to the surface with them.
SEALS
No one knows for sure. But there here and they must be eating something. I was fishing out of Captree St Paddy's Day and on the way back from Hecksher we passed one of the small islands just east of East Island. WOW! There was a large group of seals sunning themselves and some of them were nice big fat ones so there not going hungry.
Maybe we should get the guy who films the stripers underwater to put on the real thick wetsuit and follow them around the bay. I think his name is Mike Lapkow or something like that. That's the only way to find out.
Ralph
No one knows for sure. But there here and they must be eating something. I was fishing out of Captree St Paddy's Day and on the way back from Hecksher we passed one of the small islands just east of East Island. WOW! There was a large group of seals sunning themselves and some of them were nice big fat ones so there not going hungry.
Maybe we should get the guy who films the stripers underwater to put on the real thick wetsuit and follow them around the bay. I think his name is Mike Lapkow or something like that. That's the only way to find out.
Ralph
This topic seems to pop up on a monthly basis. Everyone has their own theory. I personally have never seen a seal with a flounder in it's mouth, although I have seen plenty of commerants pop up from the murky depths with juvy flounder. I think it was confirmed that the main diet of the seals are herring. We had flounder population declines long before seals became so prolific in our waters. Although, I am not a big fan of the seals as I understand that they are the host species for transmitting codworms/sealworms to our bottom feeders.
Seals, stripers, cormorants and flounder have been swimming in the same waters forever. Flounder stocks were likely decimated by man in forms of overfishing and loss of nursery habitat and such. Seals like flounder but their primary food is herring. They need to eat like 15 pounds a day to survive. Nature has an amazing way of balancing things. Seems man is the only animal that can upset that balance. Seals and stripers eating all the flounder? Nonsense in my opinion.
(This post edited by srfshr on 03/25/2003)
(This post edited by srfshr on 03/25/2003)
This came up in a search about seal diets. Although it is for the Pacific Harbor Seal, it sounds like it could pertain to ours, too. Maybe someone could find out about the specific diets of the ones here.
Either way, I don't think it's a major problem, but a contributing one, along with the overfishing, warm winters, and loss of habitat.
Excerpt from above website:
XI. DIET AND FEEDING HABITS
Harbor seals are opportunistic feeders, primarily consuming bottom dwelling and schooling prey. Common prey species include herring, flounder, and perch. They will also consume octopus, squid, and shrimp. A harbor seal's diet varies seasonally and regionally and often is subject to local prey availability.
Either way, I don't think it's a major problem, but a contributing one, along with the overfishing, warm winters, and loss of habitat.
Excerpt from above website:
XI. DIET AND FEEDING HABITS
Harbor seals are opportunistic feeders, primarily consuming bottom dwelling and schooling prey. Common prey species include herring, flounder, and perch. They will also consume octopus, squid, and shrimp. A harbor seal's diet varies seasonally and regionally and often is subject to local prey availability.
i've read that it was estimated last in 1998 Rec. anglers put a dent in the bass population in the ballpark of 16 million striped bass, although 90 percent where catch and release, considering that figure i dont think we can blaim seals for the decline in flounder, nobody to blame but ourselves, it's gotten to the point that (and i hate to say it) flounder needs to become a closed fishery for a few years, flounder are fast growers and given the chance they will rebound seals or no seals, it's also common to gut hook flounder due to the way the consume there food the suck-it-in which leads me to believe the mortality rate for shorts has to be high... if we hold off on the dredging and rec. they may come back, besides would u rather sacrafice a year or 2 for the best flounder fishing in 20 years i would...
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srfshr's got the right logic. These things have been happening before we knew what a fishing rod was, some years the forage changes but most years it's flounder this time off year. They were here when one angler could do a hundred fish in the Quogue Canal by himself back in the 70's or your kids did 50 flounder all by themselves on July 4th weekend in Moriches Bay? Don't blame the seals! Blame yourself for letting it happen. Bay Trawls years ago were common place but since outlawed after the damage was done. Another high on the list is us? Us? Yes! Remember the lean Fluke years when everyone and their mother fished flounder by private boat or headboat till summer? The flounder didn't have a chance. Most folks fished flounder wayyyyy pasted the normal times because of the lack of fluke and we as recs beat them to death. Blame all you want on commies but we had a major part in this whether you like it or not. I'd have to say as much as I disagree with commercial polilcies and landings for other fish this one we did ourself as the flounder don't travel far. Prospector
It's a bad joke to blame the seals. The flounder are going for the same reason the cod went - COMMERCIAL FISHING. Sure, seals eat some fish, but the balance of nature doesn't let them wipe out a species. Only Man can do that.
It always gets my dander up to hear stories of A-hole commercial guys shooting at seals and dolphins because "they eat all the fish" Perhaps they should turn their rifles around and......
Denmark
It always gets my dander up to hear stories of A-hole commercial guys shooting at seals and dolphins because "they eat all the fish" Perhaps they should turn their rifles around and......
Denmark
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Comercial Flounder Landings...
The comercial quota for flounder (yellowtail and blackback)landings haven't been reduced and have basically remained status quo as we sport fisherman are having a hard time putting a catch together. I wouldn't blame the commercial guy, since he is only filling his quota. I would blame the entities which set the quota like Mid Atlantic Fisheries Council and their parent organization NMFS. They are thte ones resonsible for the current flounder situation, infact they don't even think there is anything wrong with the amount of flounder swiming around??? Go Figure ???
Anyway, going back to the seals... I was reading that in Canada the Native North Americans are allowed to hunt them. I know this is the case in Alaska as well. I was wondering, since I have some native American Heritage, if I could get a special permit from the DEC to hunt seals here on Long Island. I don't see why not. I bet their skin and fur would make great winter boot liners or even a neat vest or hat....
Any other ideas...?
The comercial quota for flounder (yellowtail and blackback)landings haven't been reduced and have basically remained status quo as we sport fisherman are having a hard time putting a catch together. I wouldn't blame the commercial guy, since he is only filling his quota. I would blame the entities which set the quota like Mid Atlantic Fisheries Council and their parent organization NMFS. They are thte ones resonsible for the current flounder situation, infact they don't even think there is anything wrong with the amount of flounder swiming around??? Go Figure ???
Anyway, going back to the seals... I was reading that in Canada the Native North Americans are allowed to hunt them. I know this is the case in Alaska as well. I was wondering, since I have some native American Heritage, if I could get a special permit from the DEC to hunt seals here on Long Island. I don't see why not. I bet their skin and fur would make great winter boot liners or even a neat vest or hat....
Any other ideas...?
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SandFlee,
Flounder are slow growing fish compared to warmer flounders such as fluke. It will take many years of restrictions to bring back the fish to the levels 20 years ago. Probably just as many years to undo the damage done.
As far as seals and flounder. They are hungry too and were eating fish long before we got here. If we gave them a historical quota, we wouldn't be able to eat any flounder. Fair is fair.
See Pic. This once decided to take a break in the back of my boat while fishing (drifting no motor running)for cod. Had to shoo him away after he made a move toward the front of the boat.
Capt. Marc
Flounder are slow growing fish compared to warmer flounders such as fluke. It will take many years of restrictions to bring back the fish to the levels 20 years ago. Probably just as many years to undo the damage done.
As far as seals and flounder. They are hungry too and were eating fish long before we got here. If we gave them a historical quota, we wouldn't be able to eat any flounder. Fair is fair.
See Pic. This once decided to take a break in the back of my boat while fishing (drifting no motor running)for cod. Had to shoo him away after he made a move toward the front of the boat.
Capt. Marc
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Everyone is blamimg the "big fat seals" for eating everything that swims. They swim in frigid water and have to have allot of blubber. Go to the Sore Thumb in April and see all the "big fat people" reeling in flounder and not returning them. Man is not supposed to be fat. What's wrong here ???
SEALS AND FLOUNDER
Seals,cormarants,loons,naked south pacific spear divers are not to blame. the poor little blackbacks doom is attributed to the dragger. I have no priblem with commercial fishing,**** i've done it but maybe there should be a moritorium on the poor b*stards
Seals,cormarants,loons,naked south pacific spear divers are not to blame. the poor little blackbacks doom is attributed to the dragger. I have no priblem with commercial fishing,**** i've done it but maybe there should be a moritorium on the poor b*stards
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Guys,
Are the seals responsible? Partly
are the cormorants reaponsible? Partly
are warm water temps responsible? In good part (according to the research). Are the draggers reponsible? Partly. Are we responsible? Partly
but all of that overlooks anothe MAJOR factor. The power plants. Mill Stone in CT is said to kill over 5 million juvenal flounder a year. I can't believe shoreham does any better. Add to that the multiple other power plants located on the water and you probably would be looking at ten times the dragger kill. But of course its easier to blame the draggers than pay for the extra cost of saving these fish. color me cynical this AM.
Are the seals responsible? Partly
are the cormorants reaponsible? Partly
are warm water temps responsible? In good part (according to the research). Are the draggers reponsible? Partly. Are we responsible? Partly
but all of that overlooks anothe MAJOR factor. The power plants. Mill Stone in CT is said to kill over 5 million juvenal flounder a year. I can't believe shoreham does any better. Add to that the multiple other power plants located on the water and you probably would be looking at ten times the dragger kill. But of course its easier to blame the draggers than pay for the extra cost of saving these fish. color me cynical this AM.
Jeez Capt.XXX, I can see Nanuck from Labrador out at the south end of Swift Creek with his bat and skinning knife.
I think you wouldn't have to look to far to find books full of laws that closely protect marine mammals.
I think blaming seals, stripers, birds and maybe even commercial fishing is thinking wrong. I grew up in Bellmore and in the early 60's almost everything south of Merrick Road was salt marsh, creeks and grassland. Loaded with clams, sea worms, grass shrimp all kinds of small foods for growing fish fry. Now it's million dollar homes. That goes for the south shore from pillar to post. In the last 50 years or so we have lost the vast majority of nursery, breeding, feeding grounds for flounder, baitfish, clams, etc.
My guess is that although overfishing has had some effect, lack of viable habitat likely has a lot more to do with it. Overpopulation (man) has altered the natural balance of most of what nature has put in place. Nature has a way of adapting populations to the environment available. No environment, population falls off so those that are in place can survive with what they have available to survive on.
I think you wouldn't have to look to far to find books full of laws that closely protect marine mammals.
I think blaming seals, stripers, birds and maybe even commercial fishing is thinking wrong. I grew up in Bellmore and in the early 60's almost everything south of Merrick Road was salt marsh, creeks and grassland. Loaded with clams, sea worms, grass shrimp all kinds of small foods for growing fish fry. Now it's million dollar homes. That goes for the south shore from pillar to post. In the last 50 years or so we have lost the vast majority of nursery, breeding, feeding grounds for flounder, baitfish, clams, etc.
My guess is that although overfishing has had some effect, lack of viable habitat likely has a lot more to do with it. Overpopulation (man) has altered the natural balance of most of what nature has put in place. Nature has a way of adapting populations to the environment available. No environment, population falls off so those that are in place can survive with what they have available to survive on.
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