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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's a question for any surf anglers from "up west",meaning west of Moriches.While enjoying one of the many great days of fishing this fall, I had an experience that left me wondering. The blitz was on along a half mile stretch of east end beach,five or six locals were on it catching,releasing and keeping nice size bass and blues. Along comes a new SUV with no beach permits and a Nassau County license plate frame. Three goombas jump out and inserted themselves into the pack with no room to spare. After tangling with one of them twice and loosing a fish in the process I asked them to give me a little room. His comment was "YO, what the f*** do you want, the whole beach to yourself?"No I replied, just some common courtesy. This guy flipped out and said that that"s the way they fish where he"s from. I find it hard to believe that this is the case, but the same thing happened the next day when these jokers brought another truckload of their buddies.I'm sure that all anglers from that neck of the woods are not like this, but what is up with fishing that close to anybody?,especially if yer on the beach illegally? Now that the season is over, I figured that this post might liven thing up a little bit! LATER
 

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Yes my east end friend,they will climb on top of you if they think it's to their advantage. It's the way they are. Many are highly skilled, and are actually nice people, but they come from a crowded place and have a different sense of personal space. Obviously these posts will offend a few people, but it's a matter of fact. On several nights I have seen a collection of fishermen from an un-named up-island fishing club fish a jetty. They fish only a few feet from each other. They're pretty good at it, and rarely cross lines. If you watch the same number of locals fish the same jetty, they'll be loads of space between them. Bucktail, take a drive to someplace like Roosevelt Field someday and you'll understand where they're coming from.
 

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By your own description, there were 6 anglers fishing a half mile of beach.
As you get closer to NYC, the population gets denser.
What YOU perceive as a "crowd", others see as a vacuum.
When I was a boy, Canarsie Pier (Brooklyn) was "shoulder-to-shoulder".
If you didn't cast straight, the guy next to you would cut your line and smile at you.
What do YOU think a boy does when confronted with an adult with a knife?
He learns to cast straight!

Since I live in Queens, 6 anglers in a half mile of beach leaves room for more in my book.
But I can understand how you guys feel it was a crowd.
On most days, you might have had that spot all to yourself.

What bothers me is that the crowding cost you a fish.
Common courtesy dictates that if someone is fighting a fish, anyone near them must pull in their line immediately.

I can think of one dock in particular, that is very productive with Bluefish at sunrise. These are teen-sized fish, and pulling them up from the water is quite impossible. You have to play the fish until it is no longer "green" and then walk to the end of the dock where there is a ramp leading down to a boat launch. Most times, not a word has to be said, as every angler, in turn, either lifts their rod, or pulls in their line, so you can get by. It's truly unfortunate that this type of courtesy isn't contagious.

We are social animals. The population of Suffolk is growing.
What you experienced, sadly, is merely a harbinger of what lies ahead.
Like the dinosaurs, either learn to adapt, or become extinct.
We all have to learn. Some have to learn courtesy, some have to learn to share.

Would you have been more accepting of the "goombas" if they had a Suffolk county license plate frame? As far as being on the beach "illegally" HAVE YOU EVER DONE THAT?

Flounder

PS: Remember, to someone in Montauk, YOU are from "up West".
 

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hey I drive in from queens, and I'm usually to busy picking up the locals beer cans, plastic bags and dodging ugly women to crowd anyone. Us "goombas" stimulate the economy in suffolk.

By the way up is north.



This message was edited by mattyblazer on 12-17-01 @ 2:34 PM
 

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I guess it is all perspective---I'm wondering how 3 guys can push their way "into the pack with no room to spare" when 6 other guys are spread over a half mile of beach? It's not a Nassau County or NYC thing---it's a lack of general consideration thing. It happens everywhere. Last year, I was fishing with a spread of guys at the Gun, when I had to turn on my light to release a short the had the hooks dead center in its mouth. Three locals in a Mastic-Shirley Caddilac (70s vintage Blazer with Bigfoot tires) saw the light, jumped out and ran right in front of where I was standing, the plugs were whizzing past both ears until I walked up onto the beach out of harm's way.

I've fished the west jetty there in a crowd many times---if you fish it often enough, you know most of the fish come out of the rip at the tip on the outgoing. 6 or 7 guys packed into 100' of rocks is par for the course. All it takes it working together, casting in rotation and not casting over a guy who has a fish on. Many times, one guy will even put down his rod and climb down to land the fish for a guy he doesn't even know.
 

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Hey give me a break mattyblazer. I'll take those Dune Road Hampton's babes over your Queens girls anyday!

Back to the fishing comments. The westenders fish tighter and push in more aggressively than the south fork regulars that bucktail was used to sharing his beach with before the **** fish decided they wouldn't blitz west of Shinne**** this fall. Mike P, bucktail already classified the Shirly-Mastics as "west", so you're only supporting his observations.
Great post for a crummy, fishless day as long as everyone keeps their sense of humor.
 

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Hi Guys,

Its the same in a boat also. I won't even go into anchoring.

How many times while starting another drift in the same location does a boat short drift you, he starts his drift in front of you rather from behind and you end up drifting down on him. Or your drifting a short area and another boat anchors right in the drift zone.

These examples can go on and on.

Like I always tell the bride, "If these people get airplane pilot licenses I am leaving Long Island".

Capt Neil

Custom Fishing Rods by Captain Neil
(631)567-8049
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Flounder: When I go to Montauk, I give the locals plenty of room and respect, it"s their backyard.
Mattyblazer:Thanks for picking up trash, it is truly appreciated. I wasn't trying to diss anyone, just had to ask the question.
Mike P. By way of explaination, the school was a half mile long, these guys got tangled up with us because they wanted to fish right on top of us.
 

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I would be remiss if I didn't point out that 17 Anglers spread evenly over a half-mile would have enough room between them for a football field. If I were fishing with a football field distance to the nearest angler on both sides, I would think I died and went to heaven. It's not like that at False Bar, it's not like that at Turtle cove ...**** it's not even like that at Ditch Plains. It's certainly not like that at Democrat Point or JB6. "Under the light" is barely 100 yards long, do you mean there is only room there for one? If I was the only one fishing there, would you walk away?

If the blitz was half a mile long, and only 6 anglers were fishing it, would YOU go to a barren spot? Or would YOU think "there's plenty of room here?" (I know what I would do.)

Was the real problem the Nassau County license plate frame?
If 3 guys showed up who you knew, would you make room?
Do you associate "up West" with "disrespectful?"
If not, why did you feel it was necessary to explain
you would be "respectful" to Montauk locals?
How do you tell a "local" from someone from N.J.?

Consideration is a two-way street.

But I still think it was wrong of the fellow who didn't pull in his line to give you room to play your fish. You don't have much to say about which way a Bluefish decides to run.

Flounder
 

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Don't get hung up on how many fishermen over what area. Bucktail's observations are right on the money. It takes me about the same amount of time to reach Shinne**** Inlet as it does Moriches Inlet so I fish both equally. They're like night and day. At Shinne****, when it's all regulars, everyone stays spread out. It's comfortable. At Moriches, you can be the only guy there, and arriving fisherman will set up two rocks away from you. It's just the way it is.
 

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I spent every summer in shine**** as a kid, my grand parents lived there year round.
My point is there are dicks everywhere, and it is ignorant to assume that peoples habits are related to a reigon were they live.


"shadow" Dune road is a tourist area, and the only queens girl I need is my 7 year old.
 

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Guys....I know I'm going to catch **** for this
reply but what the heck it's the holiday season
and I'm feeling generous....I don't understand
what the big deal is about where a fisherman is
from...West, East,Jersey, who cares anyway. We are
all brothers in one of the best pastimes known to
man and some of us need a little help learning the
ropes. Lets try to stay loose and enjoy it and not
let it get us uptight. I've fished the surf for 35
years and I don't care who mugs me on the beach or
rocks, I still love it. That's all from me.
Everyone have a great holiday and next spring I
hope to see you all catch fish......best fi
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Flounder: Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was fishing with 5 other LOCAL fisherman that I have fished with for years, we know each other and give each other room. The school of fish was big enough for these VISITORS to get in on the action and still give us LOCALS plenty of room, they did not, and that"s the rub. The fact that these jokers did not have any permits( county, town and village) at all identified them as VISITORS, and VISITORS should mind their manners when visiting someone elses home.I understand that in a tourist area we need the tourists, but please respect the people that live here year round.I do make room for guys that I fish with on a regular basis, that"s just common courtesy. As for showing respect when going to Montauk,that is what I expect when fishing in my backyard, so I just pass it on when travelling,anywhere. LATER
 

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Hey Man, you don't live on the beach! Visitors have just as many rights on that beach as the locals (with the proper permits)!
If you got crowded by some "Goombas" you have nobody to blame but yourself.
What are you hung like a Ken doll? Stick up for yourself!
I probably fish a lot of the same spots that these Goombas do and I don't find myself getting crowded, and what makes you think they were Goombas? Did they make you an offer you couldn't refuse? Were they wearing white pants and a white T-shirt with tomato sauce stains on it? Were they all named Vinny?
I'm not saying what they did was right but don't let yourself be victim.
I don't like the way you keep saying LOCALS and VISITORS. Like I said earlier nobody lives on the beach we are all visitors! You make it sound like if those Goombas were on that school of fish first and the "LOCALS" came in crowded them it would be OK because they are visitors. With remarks like that you make me want to set up a few bait rods around you!
I BANG FISH ALL DAY LONG!!!!!
SMELL YA!
 

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Fish at night, like Matty said there are Dicks everywhere but at night there are a lot less Dicks and most people you run into at 3am on the beach are respectful and helpful or getting laid hahahahhahaha
During the day I have gotten some of my best lessons on reading the beach and tips on catching from old timers who's space I respected, if you crowd a guy I garantee you'll never be able to pick his brain on that particular spot
 

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Ok...............I'll bite.................here goes.
"Rude pushy anglers"...........I sympathize with you. I have been flabergasted by the occasional fisherman who parks himself to close and spoils my fun. these fishermen are ussualyy inexperienced,don't understand ettiquette or are just plain rude. For a guy to cause you to lose a fish and then come on strong when you ask him to give you some room...........I'd want to make him taste some wet sand.
As for "from up west" as if that is where all rude and pushy anglers come from........how do you like the taste of wet sand?

Southwest winds always.....Seaox
 

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I still don't get it.

My LOCAL water is Little Neck Bay.

I don't make a remark about giving me room unless the guy next to me is say ...10 yards away. Granted, it's more crowded here, but let's be "real" for a minute, shall we?

You say 5 or 6 guys had a half mile of beach, and I did the math. A half mile of beach supports 26 anglers with a distance between them of 100 feet... or 13 anglers with a 200 foot distance.
To occupy a distance of 2640 feet, 5 anglers would have to hog over 525 feet each! If you arrived at the beach, and saw a blitz with over 500 feet between anglers, would you be hesitant about casting to the fish?

If I started fishing 200 feet away from someone, and they made a wisecrack, I'd answer "what?" ...I wouldn't hear someone that far away. Well, OK, I'd hear them, but I sure wouldn't understand them, especially with the Ocean roaring. If they told me I was too close (at 200 feet) I'd think they were nuts!

Notice, I haven't used the words "LOCAL" or "VISITOR" yet. I can certainly understand how you would make an accomodation for a friend, or even a "regular", but at 200 feet, you're not making an accomodation for anyone. To get 200 feet of free space between you, and the next angler, in Montauk, you would have to walk deep into the South side. You aren't going to get that kind of room ANYPLACE a buggy can be driven to.

If "5 or 6" guys think they can lock up a half mile of productive beachfront, they are in for lots of aggravation, cause it just ain't gonna happen. If "5 or 6" guys were there BEFORE you, I bet YOU would fish there. Maybe you think that's OK because you are a "LOCAL", but the guys that were there first might not know that. They might not CARE either.

The only other scenario I can picture is that you have no idea what a half mile is. 6 guys can't even monopolize a QUARTER mile. (5280'/4= Quarter mile=1320'/6 anglers=220 feet between anglers)

It really sounds like you don't want "VISITORS" on" YOUR" beach.
You say you are "respectful" in Montauk, and give the locals their space. But if you apply YOUR criteria to YOU when you visit Montauk, I guess you do a lot of WATCHING.

Flounder
 

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I think you guys are jumping all over Bucktail here unfairly, I read his post and interpeted it to be that he was Pissed that these guys jump out of thier truck(with no permit) and mugged him, I think his piont was that 1/2 mile is plenty of room but these guy jumped in right on top of him and caused him to loose a fish. Now I know if someone did thaT TO ME i WOULD BE real pissed AS i AM SURE MOST OF YOU WOULD BE TOO!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Flounder, I'm impressed with yer math skills.You still don"t get it. There was a half mile(2,640)long school of fish.Six guys were fishing a 300 foot area of beach, leaving 2,340 feet of fishy beach empty.Three more guys added to the 300 foot occupied portion of the beach = Really obnoxious pushy behavior. The fact that they did not even have a permit for the beach was just the icing on the cake. LATER
 

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Well---just to give you a little perspective, 6 into 300 = 50 feet of elbow room. During a daytime blitz in places in Joisey, 50' of space means the guy next to you is in a different area code.

Anyhow---if I'm 50 feet away from you and we're not crossing lines---which we won't be if both of us know what we're doing---and you say I'm too close, it'll fall on deaf ears.

What's your opinion of a realistic respectable distance?
 
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