[seaslug44]

There is a law but it only applies to FRESHWATER fishing in New York state. It's no more than two rods per angler. It has nothing to do with Saltwater.

 

[seaslug44]

Here's the link to the law;

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/seasons/foe4cdef.html

Angling means taking fish by hook and line. This includes bait and fly fishing, casting, trolling and the use of landing nets to complete the catch. Anglers must be in immediate attendance when their lines are in the water. An angler may operate no more than two lines with or without a rod, and each line is limited to not more than five lures or baits or a combination of both, and in addition, each line shall have not exceeding fifteen hook points in any combination of single, double, or treble hooks, provided the total number of hook points does not exceed fifteen. Snatching, lifting, hooking and the use of tip-ups are not angling.

 

[seaslug44]

The link and quote is from the New York State Freshwater Fishing License and regulations rulebook. I'll dig around and see what I can find that might apply to saltwater angling. Keep in mind, outside of the usual size limits/season regulations, New York state has not spent a great deal of time emphasizing Saltwater angling laws.

 

[seaslug44]

That prior discussion on this board isn't coming up in the search.

I took a look at the DEC laws again and I still believe that the two rod per person "angling" definition only applies to freshwater.

Chapter 43-B does define "Angling" as not using more than two lines per person. However, Article 11, Title 13 specifically states that it "excludes migratory food fish of the sea in the Marine and Coastal district".

Article 13 contains specific laws that apply to the Marine District. None of them state that recreational fisherman can only take fish via the "angling" definition.

On a side note, if the State did indeed apply the "angling" definition to Saltwater fishing, then it would actually be illegal to keep a foul-hooked or snagged fish too!

As best as I can see, if you were standing on the shore minding your own business and a 40lb striper decided to leap into your arms, you could legally keep that fish as long as it was in season and met the minimum size limits. If a similiar thing happened on the shore of a freshwater lake or stream, you would have to return the fish to the water.

 

[seaslug44]

Hi George.

I can't seem to find that exact part of the consveration law anywhere. Everything that refers to angling and to the two line limit seems to exclude the marine district. Not that I'm out fluking with six rods, but many times I troll three rods for bass.

Did you ever actually see the exact wording in the marine district guidelines?

 

[seaslug44]

Doughboy,

Thanks. That still doesn't answer my question; How do we know that there really is a law that applies to saltwater? If it exists, why can't anyone tell me what paragraph in what chapter/article/section, etc... of the NY state conservation law it is written??

Just because everyone assumes that there is a law, doesn't mean that it actually exists. Here is a link to a copy of Chapter 43-B (the New York State Conservation Laws). You tell me where it is written in here that specifically states that no more than two lines may be fished per angler in the marine District. Maybe it's right in front of me and I'm just blind. Or maybe there simply is no law.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/c37.html

 

[seaslug44]

Thanks Doughboy.

But if you look at the law, the definition right above "angling" is the one for "fishing". Now where does it say that within the marine district it is illegal for us to go "fishing" using means other than what is legally defined as "angling"?

Sandman's post gives a close (but confusing) lead in the right direction. It makes reference to
[Section 13-0335-1 ECL]. This section is the State's poor attempt to define exactly what they consider to be commercia fishing. Here is the text;

S 13-0335. Food fish; license; prohibited acts.
1. A person who is domiciled in the state may take and land food fish
for commercial purposes, upon obtaining a marine commercial food fishing
license, except as prohibited by this chapter, from the waters of the
marine and coastal district and may land food fish taken from waters
outside New York state boundaries for commercial purposes. For purposes
of this section "commercial purposes" shall mean the taking of food fish
by any method for subsequent sale, trade or barter or to offer for sale,
trade or barter and the taking of food fish when setting, maintaining,
operating or using nets, except cast nets, not in excess of twenty feet
in diameter, when operated by hand for the purposes of taking only
Atlantic menhaden (Brevoortia tyrannus) and mullets (Mugil spp), for recreational purposes only, seines not larger than thirty feet long or
four feet deep or lift nets not larger than sixteen square feet; traps,
except bait traps not more than thirty inches in length; combs; pots; or
hook and line, except by angling. The fee for such license shall be two
hundred fifty dollars, and shall cover all persons employed by the
licensee while engaged in such employment of commercial fishing.

If you notice, there is that phrase towards the end that states "and hook and line, except by angling".

Is anyone here an attorney who can decipher this section??

Is the State attempting to say that If you fish using hook and line you are commercial fishing unless you are following the definition of "angling"???

It's no wonder that I couldn't find this stupid law. Even when I think I'm looking at it, I'm still not sure! You gotta Love this stupid State!

 

[seaslug44]

Okay, to answer my question, I emailed a copy of that section of the law to a client of mine who is a supreme court judge. Even he agrees the wording is extremely poor.

His response to my question was that any judge would have to take a look at the law and how it is being applied and ask themselves this question;

Is this law being applied to serve the purpose for which it was meant to serve when it was written? In this case, his ruling would be "NO", the definition of what constitutes commercial fishing was not written to restrict recreational angling and the number of lines a recreational angler is permitted to use. But he also added that on another day, another judge might look at it differently.

He also emphasized that although the chapter defines "angling" as fishing with not more than two lines, nowhere does the chapter state that recreational fishing within the marine waters must only be attempted via "angling". He added that the freshwater legislation specifically states that fishing is not permitted EXCEPT by angling. No such phrase was written into the laws for the marine district.

So basically, it's up to the judge. Some might laugh at the charges, some might throw the book at you. But since it is common acceptance among DEC officials that there is a two-line limit within State waters, everyone must hesitate to consider the consequences.

Oh, one last thing... he also mentioned that just because a person who is fishing with three or more lines does not meet the State's definition of "angling", it does not automatically mean that the law presumes that person to be commercial fishing. He said that anyone with a good lawyer could get one of these violations thrown out of court on the grounds that there are holes in the legislation. It's the prosecutor's burden to prove that you broke a specific law. With the absence of the exact wording, it's open to debate and possible to fight sucessfully.

 

[seaslug44]

Opinari -You are right, that is the other way the legislation can be translated.

Striper77- Thanks, you summarized it and brought out the point I have been trying to make. It's not just about rods per angler. It's about the entire legal definition and how, if enforced, actually makes it illegal to fish with more than two rods, with many umbrella rigs, mackeral rigs, and herring rigs, keeping snagged fish, etc...

For instance, technically, snagging bunker is "snatching", not angling. If we follow the law, everyone who snags bunker is actually breaking the law too!