[SORTIE]

it's all Quailoh's fault.

I spent Saturday on the boat attending to the varnish on my fixed brightwork.

The front of my windshield was in surprisingly poor condition due to water damage. Water has been seeping underneath the trim pieces that retain the window glass. As a result, the varnish had lifted up and flaked off. The varnish that remained behind was bleached out by the sun. In addition, the moisture has penetrated between the two panes of the tempered glass, turning it cloudy at the edges. After I got in I called Rob to get his thoughts on the advisability of removing the glass so it could be replaced, which would make the job of sanding the frame itself MUCH easier (no trim pieces to sand around).

Well, Quailoh must be away since I never heard from him. So on Sunday I carefully prised out the retaining strips and removed the glass (actually a laminate with film in between). It's not exactly rocket science.

What's the latest technology for marine glass? Should I have another piece of custom glass (tempered or automotive?) cut or buy a piece of 1/8" lexan and cut it myself?

This window is 30" x 45", shaped like a diamond. You'll be glad to know that I only took one of the panes out...I believe that these panes are part of the structural design of the windshield.

This post edited by SORTIE 11:17 AM 07/15/2008

 

[CaptPaul]

If you put in a plastic pane, you will never loose your appreciation of real glass after a year or two. Four, if you take care of it really well.

Paul

 

[SORTIE]

good advice, Paul - I wouldn't want to re-do this job in three years since it involves many coats of varnish.

since impact (i.e. flying objects) is not an issue, the only way I could justify using Lexan would be cost

why do I even need to use tempered glass? is a single piece of high-quality glass of that size and thickness too fragile?

This post edited by SORTIE 04:44 PM 07/14/2008

 

[Quailoh]

Gee, I slip away for a weekend of sailing and look at the trouble Skip gets into!

Skip, have you got the engine running yet?
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that tempered glass is a specially hardened plate glass. What you have and what I have is safety plate glass which is two sheets of hardened glass laminated with a film. In other words: automotive glass.
I put in automotive safety glass when I rebuilt Quailoh in 1983. Over the years it has held up well. Yes I have some fogging around some edges and even some brown crud growing between the two sheets at some edges, but overall the glass has been a great success. The only scratches are where I got sloppy with electric sanders. Otherwise the glass is as clear as the day I put it in.
I suspect that automotive glass is an expensive route to go, I think my glass, five panes, was $80 back in 83, surely a lot more now. I have thought about replacing it with new glass, but then why?
Way back then I bedded the glass in Sitka Flex, which created an adhesive bond holding the glass in the mahogany frame. Note the front panes are canted back 20 degrees so the weight of the glass and gravity go along ways towards holding the glass in place. But the side panels are vertical and they are still firmly in place.
The bottom line, Skip, is that automotive glass is the way to go. If you go with any of the plastics, the salt water will scratch the surface and first you will not be able to see through it clearly, and second water will lodge in the scratches and with winter further deteriorate the surface.
Of course if you do not fix the fuel tanks and the carb, Sortie will be going no place except her mooring, and plastic will probably hold up fine.
So Skip, sand the frame where the glass is out, replace or put the old glass back in, bedding carefully, and sock some varnish on that windshield. The windshield gets the worst of the weather. As Sortie crashes through those rollers pursuing vast schools of cow stripers, all that salt in the water is scouring the varnish. So put on lots of coats of varnish and be prepared to do it every spring.

This post edited by Quailoh 10:16 PM 07/14/2008

 

[CaptPaul]

Tempered glass shatters into relatively low-threat pieces, and safety plate usually remains attached to the laminate in the middle. Plate glass will turn into a lethal weapon if broken, and often times you face, arms, or torso is right behind it. Nothing worse than getting slashed to ribbons while out on a boat. The chances are slight that it will be broken, but they are high enough that you don't need to be behind it if it happens.

Paul

 

[6to8ftSeas]

I'm gonna agree with CaptPaul, Surprised?.....NO? ......... Me Neither.

Like he said plate glass is way too lethal if something were to happen. It may sound unlikely but all it takes is someone or something to fall forward into the windshield when you hit a wake and the wind will send that glass through you like a machete. Not worth the risk.

I don't think there is any reason why you can't go to a regular glass shop for the glass. they should even be able to give you a quote over the phone if you give them the overall dimensions and the number of cuts.

 

[MakoMatt]

I have never heard of plate glass being used for the windshield of a small boat. I'm sure for the reasons mentioned above.

Auto safety glass is the way to go. You may want to try and seal the edges with something if you are worried about fogging. What, I don't know, maybe a little silcone, just on the edge.

MakoMatt

 

[SORTIE]

Dear Rob, you set the bar high my friend

the brightwork master and angling guru wrote:
Of course if you do not fix the fuel tanks and the carb, Sortie will be going no place except her mooring, and plastic will probably hold up fine...
As Sortie crashes through those rollers pursuing vast schools of cow stripers, all that salt in the water is scouring the varnish. So put on lots of coats of varnish and be prepared to do it every spring.Rob, in addition to disappearing when I need you most, you just can't resist zinging me with derisive barbs, in the best Noreast tradition.

Here's my equation, for those of you who haven't figured it out yet:

23 yr-old Piker boat + fiberglass tankage + E10 gas = engine problems

finicky owner, employed 8-6 + likes to do his own work = little time to fish

Mechanic will be installing a new carb tomorrow morning...

 

[SORTIE]

MakoMatt wrote:
Auto safety glass is the way to goagree, thanks to all for explaining the difference

 

[CaptPaul]

Don't bother trying to seal the edges of the safety plate. If water gets in there, you will either know it when the mahogany turns black, or the mahogany will be rotting out as the glass fogs.

Make sure you clean the faying surfaces of the frames well, and seal them thoroughly w/ varnish or thinned epoxy. In this case, Boat Life's Life Caulk, in mahogany, would be a good choice. The dark color will prevent UV light from degrading the finish on the faying surfaces. It will provide a pliable, good, long-term seal for the glass. It will accept varnish, either in the future, or if you want to put a final coat on after the glass is in (pre-sand the surfaces before putting the glass in).

Make your own templates, out of un-folded coardboard or hardboard. Make the templates tight, then trim them 1/4" off one side and the top or bottom (1/8" off each edge). Label each template per window, and put a piece of tape in the top outboard corner of the side panes, and the top port or starboard corner of the center. Insure that the glazier transfers the same label on a piece of tape to your panes. This will prevent you form trying each pane in four orientations in each window when they come back. Also, and most importantly, each time you speak w/ the glazier, or his workers, or the coffee truck driver at the place, tell them that the windows are not square, and they are going into frames that have already been fabricated.

Paul

 

[MakoMatt]

Sortie, at work I use a glass/mirror guy in CT, Binks Glass I think is the name. Something like that anyway. They are in the Yellow Pages. He can come down do all the measuring & then fabricate. I have used him a lot they do good work. If you decide to go this route, and can't find him let me know & I'll get you his number.

MakoMatt

This post edited by MakoMatt 05:36 AM 07/16/2008

 

[SORTIE]

CaptPaul wrote:
Make sure you clean the faying surfaces of the frames well, and seal them thoroughly w/ varnish or thinned epoxy. In this case, Boat Life's Life Caulk, in mahogany, would be a good choice. The dark color will prevent UV light from degrading the finish on the faying surfaces. It will provide a pliable, good, long-term seal for the glass. It will accept varnish, either in the future, or if you want to put a final coat on after the glass is in (pre-sand the surfaces before putting the glass in)Paul, with all of your knowledge, you should be writing a DIY column for boating magazines!

Just to be clear, the first pane of glass has been removed and is in the back of my wagon. I plan to take it down to Bink's (thanks Matt!) so they can use the glass itself as a template. The shape of the trapezoid (34" bottom x 33" top x 24" starboard x 21" port) should make the re-installation fit obvious.

On Sunday I removed the old caulk, sanded the faying surfaces clean and applied the first coat of thinned varnish (of course it POURED rain twelve hours later, early Monday morning )

The builder used mahogany-colored caulk to seat the glass, so that's a suggestion I plan to follow.

Thanks again for all of the guidance. I will head to Bink's today...they're on Liberty St in Stamford, about a mile from my office!

 

[SORTIE]

I've got two coats of thinned varnish on the windshield frame and faying surfaces now...I don't see any point in building them up to the usual ten coats...how many coats will provide adequate protection and still leave some 'tooth' for the Boatlife seating caulk?

 

[RayboMarine]

if you are aware of how you clean your windows you can get 10+ years EASY out of lexan, it lasts a long time as long as you dont tear it apart with coarse brushes and harsh cleaners.

you can do it yourself as well.

 

[CaptPaul]

Apply more. You don't want the sealant to get a bite in the faying surface at all. You do want the surface to be completely sealed, though.

Paul

 

[SORTIE]

RayboMarine wrote:
if you are aware of how you clean your windows you can get 10+ years EASY out of lexan, it lasts a long time as long as you dont tear it apart with coarse brushes and harsh cleaners.

you can do it yourself as well.

Raybo, while I spend an inordinate amount of time maintaining my boat, I've decided I'm too clumsy for Lexan. the first time I scratched it irreparably I would be furious with myself (of course, if I get an absurdly high price to replace my 1/8" automotive glass I'll re-consider )

CaptPaul wrote:
You do want the surface to be completely sealed, though.thanks Paul, in that case I'll just continue to varnish the faying surfaces along with the rest of the windshield...they'll get ten coats and will be the best-looking surface you'll never see

)

This post edited by SORTIE 10:40 AM 07/21/2008

 

[SORTIE]

Well, after this weekend there will be no way to reuse the glass I so carefully removed. Picked up a 1/4 keg of beer at 9:00 Saturday night and forgot to move the glass, which was lying flat in the back of my wagon

it's definitely automotive glass, because it cracked like a spiderweb

off to Bink's tomorrow...hopefully they can still use it as a template

 

[MistyTom]

Well for what ever it is worth I will tell you what I did. I replaced the front two windows with custom made windows from Winn industries. I believe that is the name. If you want the information I can get real technical if you like. The phone number is on a decal on the window on the boat. I believe that they are in Alabama. The cost was reasonable. If I remember correctly it was about $150 per window. They ship them to you in about two weeks. The people were real nice on the phone. The challenge is they do not make a mitered corner. The corners are round. So basically you have to build a frame inside of your frame. I used west system epoxy and mahogany. The new window is two inches shorter to compensate for some rot I had in the frame. Mitered corners are problematic on boats with wood frames. The miter channels the water to a corner and promotes rot. Round corners are better. The side window I cut my self out of a piece of scrap plexi- glass that I bought from a place in Farmingdale. They also were very nice. I bought the gasket for the side windows at an automotive glass place. They also were very nice. They are in Deer Park. I will do some home work and dig up the phone numbers and addresses if you want. However, it seems as if you are going a different rout. I had flirted with the idea of just having glass cut and put it in like the old one but my frame had rot and is over 35 years old.

Good luck.
You will feel great when it is done.

PS

I love varnish.

I thought I had some before and after pictures but I can not find them. I have the before pictures and can take some new ones if any one wants.

 

[SORTIE]

dropped the glass this morning...let's see what the quote is.

it's basically 3' x 2', six feet total. if the quote is outrageous, I will use the Lexan solution - I've got two windows to replace

 

[SORTIE]

cost is $135 (around $22 sq foot), so I told Binks to go ahead

I've decided to get eight coats of Epifanes on the windshield, faying surfaces and trim pieces prior to re-installing the glass, then put another two coats on the whole she-bang.

I bought a tube of BoatLife mahogany to seat the glass...I plan to lay a narrow bead on both sides of the glass to keep water from infiltrating the laminate.