raw water washdown pump
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2,010 Posts
Groco!
Probably the best pumps out there.
www.groco.net
Definitely better performance, reliability and endurance than the Shurflo and Rules.
A little pricey, but worth it. The pressure they produce is good enough to wash off sun baked slime, blood and bait.
Don't even consider Johnson pumps!
Probably the best pumps out there.
www.groco.net
Definitely better performance, reliability and endurance than the Shurflo and Rules.
A little pricey, but worth it. The pressure they produce is good enough to wash off sun baked slime, blood and bait.
Don't even consider Johnson pumps!
I made a washdown system with the Shurflo pump.....not too thrilled with it, sometimes it pulses when I'm using it.
There is something interesting I read when doing research on the washdown pumps. It explained how you can switch it in an emergency if your engine water pump fails, just to get you home....sounded so good, I piped it in that way
There is something interesting I read when doing research on the washdown pumps. It explained how you can switch it in an emergency if your engine water pump fails, just to get you home....sounded so good, I piped it in that way
Joined
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1,134 Posts
after going through about 3 shurflo pumps on the old boat i was very unhappy with there lifespan i thought it was because they were mounted low in the bilge
on the new boat i've got two groco pumps that work perfectly .i put 250 hours on the boat last year,most of the time with the livewell pumps running{theres a switch to switch from livewell to washdown},and they work flawlessly with tons of presure
on the new boat i've got two groco pumps that work perfectly .i put 250 hours on the boat last year,most of the time with the livewell pumps running{theres a switch to switch from livewell to washdown},and they work flawlessly with tons of presure
Washdown
I probably need to change my pump as well. It pulses all the time and it takes me half an hour to fill a relatively small livewell. Now, i have no idea where my pump is mounted. I'll check it out when i remove shrinkwrap in the Spring (is it Spring yet?).
Groco pumps are NOT waterproof at all. Is this a concern?
Thanks,
Sal.
I probably need to change my pump as well. It pulses all the time and it takes me half an hour to fill a relatively small livewell. Now, i have no idea where my pump is mounted. I'll check it out when i remove shrinkwrap in the Spring (is it Spring yet?).
Groco pumps are NOT waterproof at all. Is this a concern?
Thanks,
Sal.
Joined
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10,097 Posts
I Second Groco
Yesiree - there's simply NO comparision between the Groco centrifical vane-type pumps and most all the soft rubber impeller-type pumps being offered as "Washdown" pumps. The vane-type will always develop more head pressure. And volume too for that matter. Always. Much more so than any of the common rubber impeller jobbies. Hard vanes vrs soft rubber blades ain't much of a contest, frankly.
There are two ways to go here with the Groco.
1/ My easy way - I use the Model SPO-60-N which is the simple pump only - no fancy pressure-sensing valve to get screwed up.
2/ The other way - Groco also makes a nice complete pump-and-pressure-valve rig that they factory-mount to a piece of Lexan for installing in your bilge as a system. If you use this setup - you can use a regular on/off lever-trigger garden hose nozzle.
Either way works - but there are a few facts about these pumps that you need to know prior to installing.
a/ These pumps freakin' HATE backpressure - they develop SO much pressure that the water can force its way past those super hi-tech carbon-faced seals in the pump body if there's too much backpressure on the water's exhaust - therefore if you go for the "Lep's simplified method" you cannot use a normal garden hose-type spray nozzle to regulate the water flow in an on/off manner without risking a blowout of those carbon seals. That water can and will spray up towards the electric motor and that as a rule ain't healthy for the pump. So what I use is an "Always on" brass needle-spray nozzle that I bought in Home Depot's Garden dept for $3 - I then regulate the "On and Off" of the water stream with a electric push-pull switch mounted to my bulkhead. Simple and fool-proof.
b/ These pumps are quite the power hogs and demand a good deal more current than any Sureflo or Jabsco Water Puppy. Bigger motor = more current needed = more torque to turn the vane assembly = longer life & more water pressure, provided you feed it the current it wants and needs. If you supply insufficient amperage at the pump motor, it will overheat and fail in a relatively short time. No different than any other current-starved electrical device.
You will need to install the pump either RIGHT next to your battery or power-feed junction plate to keep the wire runs short and thus keep resistance low (And that includes the wiring to & from the on/off switch). OR do as I do, use a quality marine solenoid rigged with no less than 8-gauge wire (6 is better) to/from the battery and then you can use thin 14-gauge wire from the push-pull to/from the solenoid. Cole-Hersey Corp. makes an appropriate marine solenoid that's properly protected from the environment (And shielded from potential sparking)for this app. I've had mine down in my very wet Shamrock bilge for 7 seasons now with no sign of failure or corrosion. (See my comments that follow regarding pump-motor painting - point "F".)
c/ Use no less than 5/8" I.D. hose for these pumps. I use 20' of the clear criss-cross red-fiber-reinforced vinyl hose that Home Depot sells for a fraction of what the marine chandleries get.
d/ I have my pump plumbed to a "Y" with each leg of the "Y" having it's own shut-off valve. The "Y" is screwed to a thru-bulkhead hose fixture and is a yellow plastic piece and also from the Home Depot garden dept. One leg goes to the afore-mentioned washdown hose and the other goes to another hose that runs under my port-side gun'nel all the way back to the transom and then thru it (Via some bronze thru-bulkhead marine fittings) and into my 162 Igloo, which is semi-permanently mounted to my swim platform. This plumbing setup does two good things for me: 1/ It turns the Igloo into a smokin' bunker/herring bait tub and more importantly for a guy that like blackfishing as much as I do, 2/ it allows me to wash those slimey fish down nicely during the run back to the dock - nice clean fish for the fillet table or photos. A Godsend for douching down a couple of limits of gurvey tog before they slip-slide across the fillet table back at the dock. I cut a hole in my Igloo and installed a 1.5" bronze thru-hull about 3/4 of the way up from the bottom - this allows the yucchy gurve-water to rise to that level and then run out the back of the cooler.
e/ One of the guys above asked about using it as bilge pump - and yep - I have mine plumbed to a thru hull that has a plug on the side - If I hole the boat's hull, I pull the plug and throw the hose overboard minus the nozzle and I've got a 4th bilge pump running. More pump capacity is definitely better there, I think that's pretty tough to argue against. And I also have that brass spray nozzle on a brass quick-release chuck - in case of main engine RW pump failure, I can plug that Groco right into my RW pickup via a plumbed-in brass receiver and continue merrily on my way.
Guys that own single-screw boats that fish offshore late in the season have to think of this stuff in advance so that if bad poop happens, we're prepared.
f/ Regardless of whichever brand of pump you buy, do yourself a favor and give the motor housing two thick coats of Rustoleum and allow each coat to dry thoroughly before installing. I've yet to see ANY pump brand not heavily rust in a wet bilge area after a few seasons.
If you are replacing a Sureflo pump with this Groco - you will be Shocked at just how much more powerful the Groco really is. The guys above were not exaggerating - it'll take dried clam chum or Mackeral blood/scales right out of the glass. Mine is fully capable of firing a high-pressure stream 3/4 of the way across my canal and I've used it more than once to discourage jet skiers from climbing up my ass when running up the bay. They just hate that.
Tough.
Sureflos? I consider those things "Disposo-pumps" - if you are lucky you can get a season or so out of them. And as far as pressure - I can pee-pee further than those things can, and I ain't a young man anymore.
Well that might be a SLIGHT exaggeration, come to think of it."
rgds, Leprechaun
(This post edited by Leprechaun on 01/10/2005)
Yesiree - there's simply NO comparision between the Groco centrifical vane-type pumps and most all the soft rubber impeller-type pumps being offered as "Washdown" pumps. The vane-type will always develop more head pressure. And volume too for that matter. Always. Much more so than any of the common rubber impeller jobbies. Hard vanes vrs soft rubber blades ain't much of a contest, frankly.
There are two ways to go here with the Groco.
1/ My easy way - I use the Model SPO-60-N which is the simple pump only - no fancy pressure-sensing valve to get screwed up.
2/ The other way - Groco also makes a nice complete pump-and-pressure-valve rig that they factory-mount to a piece of Lexan for installing in your bilge as a system. If you use this setup - you can use a regular on/off lever-trigger garden hose nozzle.
Either way works - but there are a few facts about these pumps that you need to know prior to installing.
a/ These pumps freakin' HATE backpressure - they develop SO much pressure that the water can force its way past those super hi-tech carbon-faced seals in the pump body if there's too much backpressure on the water's exhaust - therefore if you go for the "Lep's simplified method" you cannot use a normal garden hose-type spray nozzle to regulate the water flow in an on/off manner without risking a blowout of those carbon seals. That water can and will spray up towards the electric motor and that as a rule ain't healthy for the pump. So what I use is an "Always on" brass needle-spray nozzle that I bought in Home Depot's Garden dept for $3 - I then regulate the "On and Off" of the water stream with a electric push-pull switch mounted to my bulkhead. Simple and fool-proof.
b/ These pumps are quite the power hogs and demand a good deal more current than any Sureflo or Jabsco Water Puppy. Bigger motor = more current needed = more torque to turn the vane assembly = longer life & more water pressure, provided you feed it the current it wants and needs. If you supply insufficient amperage at the pump motor, it will overheat and fail in a relatively short time. No different than any other current-starved electrical device.
You will need to install the pump either RIGHT next to your battery or power-feed junction plate to keep the wire runs short and thus keep resistance low (And that includes the wiring to & from the on/off switch). OR do as I do, use a quality marine solenoid rigged with no less than 8-gauge wire (6 is better) to/from the battery and then you can use thin 14-gauge wire from the push-pull to/from the solenoid. Cole-Hersey Corp. makes an appropriate marine solenoid that's properly protected from the environment (And shielded from potential sparking)for this app. I've had mine down in my very wet Shamrock bilge for 7 seasons now with no sign of failure or corrosion. (See my comments that follow regarding pump-motor painting - point "F".)
c/ Use no less than 5/8" I.D. hose for these pumps. I use 20' of the clear criss-cross red-fiber-reinforced vinyl hose that Home Depot sells for a fraction of what the marine chandleries get.
d/ I have my pump plumbed to a "Y" with each leg of the "Y" having it's own shut-off valve. The "Y" is screwed to a thru-bulkhead hose fixture and is a yellow plastic piece and also from the Home Depot garden dept. One leg goes to the afore-mentioned washdown hose and the other goes to another hose that runs under my port-side gun'nel all the way back to the transom and then thru it (Via some bronze thru-bulkhead marine fittings) and into my 162 Igloo, which is semi-permanently mounted to my swim platform. This plumbing setup does two good things for me: 1/ It turns the Igloo into a smokin' bunker/herring bait tub and more importantly for a guy that like blackfishing as much as I do, 2/ it allows me to wash those slimey fish down nicely during the run back to the dock - nice clean fish for the fillet table or photos. A Godsend for douching down a couple of limits of gurvey tog before they slip-slide across the fillet table back at the dock. I cut a hole in my Igloo and installed a 1.5" bronze thru-hull about 3/4 of the way up from the bottom - this allows the yucchy gurve-water to rise to that level and then run out the back of the cooler.
e/ One of the guys above asked about using it as bilge pump - and yep - I have mine plumbed to a thru hull that has a plug on the side - If I hole the boat's hull, I pull the plug and throw the hose overboard minus the nozzle and I've got a 4th bilge pump running. More pump capacity is definitely better there, I think that's pretty tough to argue against. And I also have that brass spray nozzle on a brass quick-release chuck - in case of main engine RW pump failure, I can plug that Groco right into my RW pickup via a plumbed-in brass receiver and continue merrily on my way.
Guys that own single-screw boats that fish offshore late in the season have to think of this stuff in advance so that if bad poop happens, we're prepared.
f/ Regardless of whichever brand of pump you buy, do yourself a favor and give the motor housing two thick coats of Rustoleum and allow each coat to dry thoroughly before installing. I've yet to see ANY pump brand not heavily rust in a wet bilge area after a few seasons.
If you are replacing a Sureflo pump with this Groco - you will be Shocked at just how much more powerful the Groco really is. The guys above were not exaggerating - it'll take dried clam chum or Mackeral blood/scales right out of the glass. Mine is fully capable of firing a high-pressure stream 3/4 of the way across my canal and I've used it more than once to discourage jet skiers from climbing up my ass when running up the bay. They just hate that.
Tough.
Sureflos? I consider those things "Disposo-pumps" - if you are lucky you can get a season or so out of them. And as far as pressure - I can pee-pee further than those things can, and I ain't a young man anymore.
Well that might be a SLIGHT exaggeration, come to think of it.
"rgds, Leprechaun
(This post edited by Leprechaun on 01/10/2005)
Joined
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1,409 Posts
I've used the Sureflow "ProBaitMaster", (their top of the line) on two boats and have never had one fail. This is a diaphram pump (not impeller), self primes, which means you can mount it wherever you want (above the water line) , a definite safety feature and will help to prevent corrosion, although the critical parts on this pump are sealed with a conformal rubber coating.
It's pressure regulated and will turn on/off with ordinary garden hose fittings. It has a high pressure mode and a high volume mode. It will let you know if your plumbing has a leak as it might pulse momentarily (.5 sec) to re-pressurize the line. The shutoff is very precise.
Mine is "teed" into my fishwell and my washdown. This pump is designed for continuous duty, mine generally runs all day feeding a 40 gallon baitwell / fishwell.
The self turn off feature is great, to quote ron popeil "set it and forget it". Turn it on once, turn it off at the end of the day. Since you leave the pump energized, simply press the washdown nozzle or throw the valve for the fishwell.
Sureflow gets some bad raps, however this product (pro baitmaster) has never failed me, and can pump frozen slush through 20 feet of hose (i do it all the time, more so this year !). I would not hesitate to buy another (should I ever need one which seems unlikely).
The ability to utilize a washdown pump as a redundant raw water cooling source should not be overlooked. My pump can easily connect to the freshwater flush port on my outboard, via garden hose fittings, and will provide plenty of flow to get me home should the engine water pump ever fail.
It's pressure regulated and will turn on/off with ordinary garden hose fittings. It has a high pressure mode and a high volume mode. It will let you know if your plumbing has a leak as it might pulse momentarily (.5 sec) to re-pressurize the line. The shutoff is very precise.
Mine is "teed" into my fishwell and my washdown. This pump is designed for continuous duty, mine generally runs all day feeding a 40 gallon baitwell / fishwell.
The self turn off feature is great, to quote ron popeil "set it and forget it". Turn it on once, turn it off at the end of the day. Since you leave the pump energized, simply press the washdown nozzle or throw the valve for the fishwell.
Sureflow gets some bad raps, however this product (pro baitmaster) has never failed me, and can pump frozen slush through 20 feet of hose (i do it all the time, more so this year !). I would not hesitate to buy another (should I ever need one which seems unlikely).
The ability to utilize a washdown pump as a redundant raw water cooling source should not be overlooked. My pump can easily connect to the freshwater flush port on my outboard, via garden hose fittings, and will provide plenty of flow to get me home should the engine water pump ever fail.
Joined
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4,148 Posts
GPM & pressure
There 2 things to look for in any pump, psi and GPM. These two are generally related inversely. Pumps with a very high GPM(or GPM*60 = GPH) tend to have low psi (bilge pumps), pumps with a low GPM tend to have high psi.
Washdown or water system pumps need to build high pressure and need to be able to move water over distance; they need to be powerfull. The actual amount of water they move is not as important as the pressure they are capable of acheiving. These pumps need to pull as well as push to acheive such pressure, making them self priming.
Bilge or livewell pumps need to move large quantities of water over shorter distances. The amount of water they push is the focus, not the pressure. Over a long distance (increases required pressure), these pumps loose much of their flow. Because of the low pressure strategy, they do not self prime.
For example, I ran across one of those rule 3700 GPH (about 60 GPM), 10 psi bilge / livewell / washdown pumps for next to nothing. I used this for a season for the livewell/washdown. The pump needed to be submerged, it was mounted on the back of the boat. It was unbelievably powerfull without the 15 feet of hose attached to it - it would shoot a 1.5 inch blast of water a few feet straight up. But, with the 15 feet of hose, it was barely enough to create a small 5 foot spray. When running the livewell, it could be outperformed by a 1000 GPH pump that I use to empty the tank. This mamouth bilge pump also draws something around 15 amps, which hurts if it's running all the time.
So, this season, I bought a 3.5 GPM (210 GPH) FloJet washdown/livewell pump (continous use type). It's supposidly rated for a 30 gallon livewell. I couldn't tell you exactly what the formula is for that. I have a 50 gallon livewell I intend to use it for, and I'll bet it works just fine.
If you want to go by the book, the manufacturer seems to feel a 3.0 GPM is good for a 20 gallon livewell, a 3.5 is good for a 30, and a 5.0 is good for a 50. If you are just going to clean your floors, I'd go with the simple "blaster" setup they sell for $80. It's a high pressure intermittent use washdown that self primes up to 10 ft or so and comes with all the odds and ends for setup.. If it's for a livewell or water system in your boat, how nice of a pump you buy depends on how much you want to spend.
Jon
There 2 things to look for in any pump, psi and GPM. These two are generally related inversely. Pumps with a very high GPM(or GPM*60 = GPH) tend to have low psi (bilge pumps), pumps with a low GPM tend to have high psi.
Washdown or water system pumps need to build high pressure and need to be able to move water over distance; they need to be powerfull. The actual amount of water they move is not as important as the pressure they are capable of acheiving. These pumps need to pull as well as push to acheive such pressure, making them self priming.
Bilge or livewell pumps need to move large quantities of water over shorter distances. The amount of water they push is the focus, not the pressure. Over a long distance (increases required pressure), these pumps loose much of their flow. Because of the low pressure strategy, they do not self prime.
For example, I ran across one of those rule 3700 GPH (about 60 GPM), 10 psi bilge / livewell / washdown pumps for next to nothing. I used this for a season for the livewell/washdown. The pump needed to be submerged, it was mounted on the back of the boat. It was unbelievably powerfull without the 15 feet of hose attached to it - it would shoot a 1.5 inch blast of water a few feet straight up. But, with the 15 feet of hose, it was barely enough to create a small 5 foot spray. When running the livewell, it could be outperformed by a 1000 GPH pump that I use to empty the tank. This mamouth bilge pump also draws something around 15 amps, which hurts if it's running all the time.
So, this season, I bought a 3.5 GPM (210 GPH) FloJet washdown/livewell pump (continous use type). It's supposidly rated for a 30 gallon livewell. I couldn't tell you exactly what the formula is for that. I have a 50 gallon livewell I intend to use it for, and I'll bet it works just fine.
If you want to go by the book, the manufacturer seems to feel a 3.0 GPM is good for a 20 gallon livewell, a 3.5 is good for a 30, and a 5.0 is good for a 50. If you are just going to clean your floors, I'd go with the simple "blaster" setup they sell for $80. It's a high pressure intermittent use washdown that self primes up to 10 ft or so and comes with all the odds and ends for setup.. If it's for a livewell or water system in your boat, how nice of a pump you buy depends on how much you want to spend.
Jon
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10,097 Posts
Go Here:
This is what you want:
The real deal of Pumps
Paulh has had good luck with his pump and that's a good thing. For him.
I still wouldn't use a Sureflo again if you gave it to me.
I'd give it to Paul.
Too many failures with those P.O.S.'s and I've got other things to do on the boat instead of swapping pumps every season.
rgds, Leprechaun
This is what you want:
The real deal of Pumps
Paulh has had good luck with his pump and that's a good thing. For him.
I still wouldn't use a Sureflo again if you gave it to me.
I'd give it to Paul.
Too many failures with those P.O.S.'s and I've got other things to do on the boat instead of swapping pumps every season.
rgds, Leprechaun
wash down pumps
if you need a very good wash down pump
go to the West Marine in babylon wed,thur,fri. sat. go upstairs everything up there is discounted already and you get and extra 37% off of the marked price. They have clucth pumps up to $500.00 marked down to $175.00 to $245.00 then take 37% off of that. you might get a pump that was out of your price range.That will last the life of your boat. just and idea.West Marine has everything from wires to seats,fitting,lights,transdusers,all at discount prices.
capt.Tom Just Fish
if you need a very good wash down pump
go to the West Marine in babylon wed,thur,fri. sat. go upstairs everything up there is discounted already and you get and extra 37% off of the marked price. They have clucth pumps up to $500.00 marked down to $175.00 to $245.00 then take 37% off of that. you might get a pump that was out of your price range.That will last the life of your boat. just and idea.West Marine has everything from wires to seats,fitting,lights,transdusers,all at discount prices.
capt.Tom Just Fish
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