[656268]

I am new to this board,,,and I have spent some time trying to figure out what the facts are on this herring fishery. There is a lot of pasion and opinion...but I cannot seem to find much in the way of fact! There is plenty of finger pointing.....but I would like somebody to describe the situation to us on this board....and to use fact when framing the conflict. If people believe that I am incorrect in framing this discussion as a conflict than I apologize, but from my perspective, there is a tremendous amount of highly charged statements......

I will start with a few questions...

What is the current abundance of herring?
Where do herring get landed?
How are herring caught?
How many people fish for herring?
How much herring is caught?
How much does herring cost?
Who is invested in herring processing?
What are the markets for the product?
What else do those engaged in herring fishing target?



Thanks in advance and lets keep this reasonable.....

 

[makomakoman]

There is a lot information in the other threads. Read them and make your own conclusion unless you represent one side or the other.

Are you a supportor of the MW trawlers?

 

[guest]

It took me a lot to find a lot of the info you are looking for. It's all over the net. But for now try here NEFMC

here ASMFC
or here Maine DMR

These should jump start you into finding more info

This post edited by guest 12:39 PM 12/24/2007

 

[loligo]

Wow- thats a lot of questions.

Whats your interest in all this, for starters?

You can read a lot of stuff on the subject thats already been written here and elsewhere.

 

[twofinbluna]

Real- this issue has been going on for a long time, you can find all those answers online or in past threads. Final Herring Amendment 1 has a lot of the info in it. I have reaqd it nuermous times but am not going to spends the hours ncecessary to get all the info you are asking for.

Why the newfound interest in this issue? I was wondering the same thing as mako- are you just another MW trawl advocate hopping on discussion boards all of a sudden? (There has been a couple other MW lurkers who have decided to post recently on other sites to). It is highly questionable for someone to come out of nowhere and supposidly have no connection to a fight like this and then start asking such specific questions on a specific issue.

But again, much of the #s can be found in the Amendment, which is on the NEFMC herring page. They wont go into the issues like who is funding the MW/processors, but they will tell you the numbers.

Many of the issues are pretty contested, like with abundance. There is no set answer (unless you are one of those people who believe anything a fisheriy scientist tells you) and you would really need to either spend time on the water or talk with \those who do to get the full specturm of beliefs.

ANd agan, we have been discussing this issue on this site for a long time now, I suggest going back and reading the threads. This is very much a conflict with two sides that do not see eye to eye and no offense but we are way beyond being able to solve this issue by trying to talk it out on an internet discussion board.

I am using a firend's computer and dont have time to get into this now anymore than that...good luck.

This post edited by twofinbluna 06:43 PM 12/24/2007

 

[621287]

Does read like a MW trawler shill, doesn't it?

 

[twofinbluna]

josko wrote:
Does read like a MW trawler shill, doesn't it?

Indeed.

 

[loligo]

indubitably....

 

[656268]

hey...not a Midwater advocate....not a lurker.....guess i was a little lazy.....and was looking for the readers digest version......i did go back and read through the previous posts.....still do not feel like there is a ton of fact in the discussion.........maybe I can see answers in the websites .....

my point in starting the thread was to get at the real problem(s)....seems like there is hatred and anger all around.....I saw that in other posts.....thats why i started this one.....I wanted to get the facts on the table.....and when there is a lack of information to point that out as well.......in my line of work....there is a standard set of information which is necessary prior to the start of any project.....this is required by the various permiting agencies and well as insurers....

from what I see in the previous posts....many people do not like the midwater fleet because of the size of the operation and the places that they fish. many people believe they catch fish other than herring....but there is no real information to prove or reject this thought......

seems that the environmental movement is taking notice and is getting invloved in this issue. seems that fishermen do not like the presence of them....

the science is also a favorite taregt of the majority of people who post here...

so I guess I wonder what you guys trust and believe in......?
I hope it extends beyond what you can see, touch and hear.....!

The science is no good! The managers are corrupt! The environmentalists have no place here! The midwater fishermen are destructive! what is the truth?

This is a classic vested interests vs. legitamate interests!

 

[guest]

loligo wrote:
indubitably....

Funny. When someone asks legitimate questions he or she gets questioned like they are some sort of criminal. Having been on the end of this myself, I have too say that questioning someone?s motives when they are looking for information is not a real good way of winning supporters.

But then when you have Pew in your corner, I guess you can always buy public opinion

 

[HungryJack]

realreasonable wrote:
what is the truth?
In fisheries matters, the truth is like religion.
Everybody got their own version.

The truth might be that Whales are the issue.

While everybody worries about what the MW trawlers take,
which was 92,650 Tons last years.
Whale consumed 23,000,000 tons of herring and other fish in the same waters.

 

[guest]

HungryJack wrote:

The truth might be that Whales are the issue.

While everybody worries about what the MW trawlers take,
which was 92,650 Tons last years.
Whale consumed 23,000,000 tons of herring and other fish in the same waters.

Or it could be the Midwater trawlers as whales have been around eating herring for a long time with out a problem

But HJ is right. it's all subject too interpretation. Fortunately most reasonable people see things the same way

 

[twofinbluna]

realreasonable wrote:


from what I see in the previous posts....many people do not like the midwater fleet because of the size of the operation and the places that they fish.


First off...the only reason people are questioning your arrival is because there has been a number of cases recently of blatant ovbious MW advocates signing up on sites like this and to be honest, it really did seem from your posts that you were another example. Its pretty annoying having people pop onto sites and never tell us who they are or even what involvement they have in the herring fishery eventhough its obvious to everyone that they are at least involved in it. So, again, there is a reason that your posts were recieved in the manner they were.

Specifically in response to your quote I posted, it is not about how much they are catching...its about midwater trawl gear inshore. Nobody had or has any problem with the seine fleet (which catches a LOT of fish inshore) and if these MW boats started seining nobody would have a problem with them. We always coexiusted with the seiners and this summer we fished around them again with no problem. The problem is when the MW boats show up inshore.

The herring fishery is a very important fishery because it supplies bait and poroduct for food... this is about midwater gear - with an emphasis on pair trawl gear- being used to pound the inshore. People from up and down the coast and from all the fishieres feel this way. Thats a fact. The herring fixed gear and purse seine guys are strongly opposed to this gear being fished like this inshore, as well.

Its more than just the gear itself, though, and is also about how that gear is fished. They take up to 5 sets of 150' pair trawlers and just crush one area after the other. Ask anyone who fishes the GOM and they will tell you about it. Everyone has seen it and seen what it can do to the inshore area.

I am not going to comprehensivly rehash for the millionth time why myself and many others feel this way about midwater gear in the inshore herring fishery. Just having this dicussion again seems entirely redundant given the number of times we have had this discussion in the past.

In short, I am just realllly really sick of talking about these kinds of herring issues online. I have to deal with it enough in real life and its frustrating enough then.

I could go on and on about the reasons we feel this way, but you need to look over it all and make up your own mind.

This post edited by twofinbluna 02:27 AM 12/26/2007

 

[twofinbluna]

guest wrote:


But HJ is right. it's all subject too interpretation. Fortunately most reasonable people see things the same way



Very true

 

[656268]

If most people agree with your way of "seeing" things than why is there a problem? Most people may mean most of the people on this BB but not most people in general.....I bet in fisheries like in other issues majority does not rule!

 

[loligo]

whered you get this figure Jack?

Did the whales file a catch report?

 

[SinkerBouncer]

HungryJack wrote:

The truth might be that Whales are the issue.

While everybody worries about what the MW trawlers take,
which was 92,650 Tons last years.
Whale consumed 23,000,000 tons of herring and other fish in the same waters.
23 million tons?

Wowser!! I believe that?s 46 billion pounds (46,000,000,000 pounds of herring and other fish).
That?s a lot of whale food !!

I?m curious to know where that particular numb-ber comes from.

 

[652195]

Common Guys

You didnt know? Jack speaks whale and the little whale told him how much they ate...

 

[NilsS]

The American Cetecean Society has consumption/whale on their website. NMFS 2006 Marine Mammal Assessment has population estimates.

For ex., there are 2,800 fin whales in the northwest Atlantic, and they each eat 2 tons/day of "small shrimp-like creatures called krill or euphausiids and schooling fish" per day. That's just over 2 million tons a year for a single species. The total US Atlantic coast and Canadian Atlantic commercial landings are about a million and a half tons a year.

Those critters, plus dolphins, porpoises and pinnipeds are eating far more than we are collectively catching. And just about all of their populations are growing.

This post edited by NilsS 01:17 PM 12/26/2007

 

[648980]

Real, I know seiners are more preffered by tuna fishermen, because they fish nights and unload during the day and are not a bother during the day the way the trawlers are. Seining is not a good way to fish winters because fish thin out and move around alot and MW are safer and much more eficiant period. Dead fish are dead fish no mater how you catch them.Some people have fish thier fisheries(tuna & groundfish)into the muck and then they start blaming everyone else for their demise, it helps take away the guilt. You have to also remember that this witch hunt has gone on for 6 years so everyone is pretty much brained washed here. Here is a web site with some facts http://www.fisheriescoalition.org/