[623314]

First of all, all the boards here are fantastic. It is certaily humbling to learn so much about something you thought you were already pretty good at. The knowledge and expertise of the members here is outstanding.......now on to my ranting.

I'm fairly new to this site, so if this subject has already been broached please forgive me.

I mainly fish dock and party boats and it seems to me that every time I'm out there is someone keeping illegal fish. If I don't think I will get the sh** beaten out of me I usually advise them that the fish they just caught is illegal. 9 out of 10 times this is met with indifference and they keep the fish. Very rarely will somone be ignorant of the rules and when the are my advice is welcomed.

I watched as one guy kept a short fluke and when he saw a DEC officer strolling the dock , he sent his wife with fluke in tow scurrying into the woods. If I had the cajones I would of tipped the DEC officer off. Quite frankly I'm sorry I didn't, after all his actions impact all fishermen.

I'm not some hardliner jerk, beleive me I've made more stupid mistakes than one person should be allowed. But when somone brazenly and knowingly breaks the law in front of me it really chaps my ass.

So, how do you guys appraoch this, and if you do, how and what do you do.

 

[622769]

I beat the offender about the head and neck and release their catch!!
No seriously, there's not much you can do other than politely tell them of the offense, say absolutely nothing, or report them. In your case you're better off not saying anything. Would you say something to a guy who flew past you on the L.I.E. doing 80mph? Probably not because most likely it'll escalate into something else...let the proper authorities handle it.

While we're on the subject of "illegal sized fish", how do you guys feel about someone who uses "illegal sized" fish as bait? I'm curious to see what others think about this.

 

[613098]

Kid,
That's an easy one - it's just plain wrong.
Paul

 

[wader]

ILLEGAL SIZE FISH USED FOR BAIT

As Denmark Paul states - it is wrong.

About 3 years ago I was out on a Captree party boat. I don't recall the name of the boat right now - although at the time I was so annoyed I did post it on here.

Before the boat sailed I'm watching one of the mates catching & keeping baby & I mean baby (1 to 2 inch) weakfish for use a fluke bait. I pointed out to him that this was not only illegal but **** wrong. He simply shrugged his shoulders & kept on catching them.

They were given to the customers who willingly used them for bait.

So we not only had the mate (who definatley knew better) catching & giving them out - but anglers - many of whom probably knew what they were doing was wrong - using them as fluke bait.

Needless to say - when I needed some help - that particular mate never seemed to be around.

 

[Tracker99]

Keeping illegal fish is a major problem from what I've seen in my 1st year of fishing. When I fish from the pier at Cedar Beach in Mount Sinai there is always a group or two of South Americans who literally keep everything they catch. Under size Porgies don't bother them, nor does the every so often Fluke that isn't even 12-14 inches. More then once I've told them that the fish were to small with no response other then just continuing to keep everything. And during the 2 week ban on Porgies they kept everyone they caught.

I've reported this to the entry guards but they don't do anything about it. Another fisherman even called DEC a few times, but they never came down while I was still there.

When I fish from the piers at Captree, the Park Rangers do make their rounds and the number of people keeping illegal fish or female crabs with egg sacks is a lot less. I've seen them hand out summons for this offense.

On the other hand, I've explained the regulations to plenty of families out with their kids who caught under size fish, and in every case they've thrown the fish back.

The bottom line is that if DEC can't patrol the problem spots like Cedar Beach, these infractions will continue to grow.

 

[jamesa]

I never go out on the boat (18') without the numbers of the USCG, Hemp and OB Bay constables, PD Marine Bureau and the DEC. I keep the plasticized card in the glove compartment.
Don't hesitate to call them via cell or VHF when you see these slobs !

 

[613098]

MY DREAM

Guys,
I really think that keeping undersized fish is just wrong (see above), but there is one circumstance that I dream about a lot, in which I might keep one. As I'm sure you know, essentially all really big bass are females, the breeders of the stock. My dream is to one day catch that 50 pounder. If this ever happens, I plan to just weigh and measure her, take a photo and very gently send her back to breed thousands of little bass. After that, I'll take a chance and keep the next short for my celebration dinner!! lol. I'll have to make this judgement when the time comes, but I would never kill a fish that big. So now you know my eveil plan and can turn me in to the DEC.
Paul

 

[186logic]

DP that is a good idea. I think there should be a slot limit for stripers...24"-38" or something like that.

 

[613098]

Logic,
That's really a good idea. It just gets to me to see those big cows killed. The slot limit idea seems to work well for redfish and the like down South. Can you imagine posting a report "got three bass today, but they were too big, so I had to put them back"?
Paul

 

[TJL65]

What Happens When

Right now the boating angler hasn't really been shut out of taking a fish or two home for dinner. But for many land bassed fishermen who are fishing for food, this is the case. What happens when it happens to us.

This is a really tough question. Is a guy or 10 guys or 1000 guys keeping a couple short fish (on average) really going to make a difference. I don't think so.

It's not that we hate and believe these guys taking short fish are going to wipe out any species - but more that we're so committed to obeying the laws no matter how unfair. Why should he take a fish when I won't. A 16" fall run fluke is a very edible fish. Very edible. Is a guy who takes two 16" fluke home for the table the same monster that guys filling the pail with 6" porgies are? I know a woman who can take a 7" porgie and turn it into a gourmet entree that you'd gladly pay $20 bucks for.

I always say that if recreational fisherment were the forefathers who founded this country - we'd all be sipping tea, putting vinegar on our french fries and buying bait in pounds -not dollars.

Finally - mind your own business and do what's right for you. And if you choose to ignore the rules and keep shorts - be prepared to pay the price when you get caught. My $.02.

 

[613098]

QUOTE

"TO SIN BY SILENCE WHEN THEY SHOULD SPEAK OUT MAKES COWARDS OF MEN" -Abraham Lincoln

In spite of my lawbreaking fantasies, I really never keep short fish. I think we all have an obligation to remind others of the rules in case they don't know them. If people willingly and openly keep shorts, they should be reported to the DEC. I've done it before and I plan to do it again.
Paul

 

[MakoMatt]

TJL65, to your point, if I am reading between the lines correctly, in that you don't send a hungry man to prison for stealing an apple from the cart, in as much as it applies to people who fish off piers and the like, I think enforcement should use some discretion, try and educate the community, give warnings rather then fines at 1st., etc., etc. Maybe even have different size limits for senior citizens fishing piers. However, all others should pay the price and as far as reporting people, if someone is comfortable doing that, let'em do it, I don't care, they will never have anything on me. Just my $.02

 

[TJL65]

If Only

I'll do what's right for me and I'll let others do what is right for them.
All things being equal - I can't tell if a person taking shorts "wants" or "needs" to do it. So I have to assume the later.

Another thing - just because you don't see the table value in a fish doesn't mean it has none.

If I or my family were not in a position to purchase the food that we needed and the opportunity was there to take fish home to eat or freeze - I have no doubts as to what I would do. I think I'm at $.04.

Anyone ever notice that the "cent" symbol isn't on a computer keyboard - that's probably a topic for another messagboard.

 

[623314]

TJL

You can't tell is someone "wants, or needs the fish", so you assume the latter?

I agree with you that if I think that the person "needs" the fish I would mind my business.

But to qualify my original complaint, I rarely seen anyone on a dock look as though they "needed" fish.

I have seen guys with 3 or 4 $60 setups and another $100 in a tackle box taking everything they can get their hands on and shimmy off in a nice SUV. I've seen many shorts taken and kept on party boats in closed coolers( god forbid any mate clean their fish, especially the shorts ). With your logic they should bet the approx $30 on a party boat to catch fish, any fish, to feed themselves, instead of using the $30 for food?

I value your opinion but with what I experience your logic is tainted. Again I reiterate the actions of these people affect all fisherman, whether in the largest or smallest degree, they do.

 

[613098]

Gotta side with Magdam on this one.
Paul

 

[186logic]

I could be wrong, but I can't imagine anyone fishing soley for food anymore with the current cost of tackle, bait etc.. Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to the market?
As far as everyone minding their own business...the environment is EVERYONE'S biz and in order to protect it you need to be involved! I have no prob blowing the whistle on a violator. Unfortunately, I don't agree w/ some of the regs they have on fish size and limits, but I hope they get better.

 

[Brown Trout]

legal vs. ethical

This discussion is moving from a legal to ethical question. I doubt if anyone would deny another a meal if they knew it was necessary for sustainence.

However the letter of the law is the bottom line. If we don't act when we see shorts being kept and poachers go unchecked, we not only have less fish for the future, we also promote poaching by allowing it to occur. Then in the future when the state does try to crack down, bait, tackle, and taxes go up to enforce the laws. Plus we'll be revisiting the topic on the discussion board about the heavy handedness of the DEC (again).

Don't be the guy (or girl) who doesn't act. If you're not comfortable approaching the person, call the authorities. If they don't show call again next time you see it. If we continue to make them aware of the problem, they'll act sooner or later.

The laws are in place to protect and benefit everyone. MakoMatt has a good point about the officers. They are givin a wide latitude of discretion as to how to handle situations. Just my 2 cents.

Jamesa, why not post the numbers you carry on the board so others can benefit and take up the cause?

 

[618563]

if the person really needs the fish, instead of fishing all day they should GET A JOB or GO TO WORK! lol

i remember the days when i was a kid during the 80's and spent months trying to catch a striper! couldnt find them!
just dont do it...i call everyone in, especially stripers..ive even done a "let me see your fish" and thrown the fish back..i guess i can bc im a big guy...if i feel like eating fish, i go out for lobster..the water, while cleaner than it has been in years, is still too dirty for me.

 

[614480]

What do you guys think about using Snappers as bait?

It certainly isn?t the same as using baby weakfish, and technically you can say I am not breaking the law because I pretty much never have more than the possession limit on me. But I will just catch then as I am fishing for fluke and use them for fluke bait (they work really well) So sometimes I might end up using 2 dozen of them in a day of fluke fishing. Is what I am doing technically illegal? Nobody says anything and they are just so **** plentiful (unlike other species) I use them for bait (if available).

I still remember one thing that really pissed me off which happened about 3 years ago. I was fishing the Manasquan Inlet in North Jersey and there was thousands of herring invading the inlet. I must have caught and releases about 80 that day. I remember there was one old guy fishing and every fish he caught he would just throw it right on the deck. And he would ask other people to throw the herring in his pile. I was thinking to myself how the **** could anyone eat herring?especially that many of them. And right before he leaves he comes out with a wheel barrel fills it with the herring..and says he?s using them for fertilizer! I couldn?t believe what I just witnessed. This guy killed all those big 12?-18? herring for stupid fertilizer. That stupid moron couldn?t go out and buy fertilizer or use other methods? I wouldn?t mind if he kept the herring for bait or to live line them for stripers?.but what he did really pissed me off.