[JC30967]

Evening all-

In the poacher thread, a side debate on the fluke regs popped up, and I thought of a question I'd like to ask some of the members knoweldgable in such matters.

Let's forget for a minute weather or not the regs are justified and just go with NMFS' assertion that fluke are overfished and the stock needs to be rebuilt. My understanding is this rebuilding has to be complete by 2013. Now, assuming these extremely strict regs we are currently under ( and who knows what else they may come up with in the future) work, and in the year 2013, the fluke stock is declared "recovered", what happens then? Will we finally see a return to more sensible regs, especially in regards to the size limit? Will we be told that in order to prevent future "overfishing", the draconian regs need to be maintained?

Whatever the end result is, I only hope that there are still some party/charter boats, tackle shops, fishing stations, and yes, commercial fishermen around to enjoy the "rebuilt" fluke population.

 

[guest]

Yes the regs will get more liberal if fluke are rebuilt to Bmsy. The limit is currently 7,700 mt. Once rebuilt it could be ~ 21,000 mt minus some part (10-20%) as a precautionary buffer. So you are at least looking at double the fish then you are allowed now

This post edited by guest 08:41 PM 04/12/2008

 

[goldfish61]

yes when the stocks are restocked you can catch all you want take a picture and toss them back
just think with all the bass around how many can you keep think about it try going across the channels to the south reef in oct or nov you here the bass hit the boat but you can only keep just one what a joke

 

[obtuseangler]

guest wrote:
Yes the regs will get more liberal if fluke are rebuilt to Bmsy. The limit is currently 7,700 mt. Once rebuilt it could be ~ 21,000 mt minus some part (10-20%) as a precautionary buffer. So you are at least looking at double the fish then you are allowed now


21 mil MT is less than the tal in 2006, so we'll still be screwed just not as bad as today.

Thats probably a best case scenario, do best case scenarios ever play out in fisheries management?

 

[CaptPaul]

I'm going to Disneyland.

Paul

 

[reelfisher]

obtuseangler wrote:
guest wrote:
Yes the regs will get more liberal if fluke are rebuilt to Bmsy. The limit is currently 7,700 mt. Once rebuilt it could be ~ 21,000 mt minus some part (10-20%) as a precautionary buffer. So you are at least looking at double the fish then you are allowed now


21 mil MT is less than the tal in 2006, so we'll still be screwed just not as bad as today.

Thats probably a best case scenario, do best case scenarios ever play out in fisheries management?

Mike the number he is quoting is the recreational TAL

 

[BASSSURF]

I wish I knew what will happen. I guess all we can do is wait and see

 

[obtuseangler]

reelfisher wrote:
obtuseangler wrote:
guest wrote:
Yes the regs will get more liberal if fluke are rebuilt to Bmsy. The limit is currently 7,700 mt. Once rebuilt it could be ~ 21,000 mt minus some part (10-20%) as a precautionary buffer. So you are at least looking at double the fish then you are allowed now


21 mil MT is less than the tal in 2006, so we'll still be screwed just not as bad as today.

Thats probably a best case scenario, do best case scenarios ever play out in fisheries management?

Mike the number he is quoting is the recreational TAL

John,

I am less than optomistic that things will be getting better in the foreseeable future without a legislative fix (which IMO is a longshot).

I really would like to be wrong.

 

[sandman]

they band fishing poles next

 

[JC30967]

Guys-

Thanks, some thoughtful replies so far. I would venture a guess and say that I am sure most of us are hopeful that you are correct, Guest. But like Obtuse says, how often are we given the best scenario?

Paul, witty answer as always

! Mabey fluke will be "rebuilt" so much that thousands upon thousands of people will come fluking with you, and you can then take an early retirement and see many other parts of the country with your family! Now there's a best case scenario!

 

[outrageous21]

18.5inches 5 fish

 

[guest]

obtuseangler wrote:

21 mil MT is less than the tal in 2006, so we'll still be screwed just not as bad as today.

Thats probably a best case scenario, do best case scenarios ever play out in fisheries management?

in 2005 I thought it was closer to 12,000 mt for the rec and com combined http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/sos/spsyn/fldrs/summer/

So it would be almost double that.

But I agree that's based on an old stock assessment and I don't think NMFS will let the fishery go to MSY. But it certainly will be a lot better then the 7,000 mt Rec/com combined you are getting now.

This post edited by guest 01:07 AM 04/13/2008

 

[obtuseangler]

guest,

I did a google search and then failed to bookmark the source, I may may have pulled an incorrect figure in my haste. My apologies to all for that.

Doubling to 14 million MT would bring us back to approximately where we were last year. I could actually live with that, but only because I am blessed with some of the best fluking in the region. People to the west and on the South Shore probably will feel differently.

 

[guest]

Check out page 12....

http://www.asmfc.org/speciesDocuments/sfScupBSB/summerflounder/annualreports/fmpreviews/06FMPReview.pdf

21,000 mt = 46,305,000 lbs I don't see a TAL set that high or a combined rec and com take that high anywhere I must be missing something....

 

[obtuseangler]

guest wrote:
Check out page 12....

http://www.asmfc.org/speciesDocuments/sfScupBSB/summerflounder/annualreports/fmpreviews/06FMPReview.pdf

21,000 mt = 46,305,000 lbs I don't see a TAL set that high or a combined rec and com take that high anywhere I must be missing something....

Guest,

Now I'm going to blame the metric system , I converted incorrectly from MT to lbs. sorry.

 

[JC30967]

outrageous21 wrote:
18.5inches 5 fish

From your lips to God's ear! I'd just add a season of, say, the first week in May, through Sept.30th or so.

 

[NilsS]

More fish = increased TAC?????

When's the last time that's happened?

There's swordfish, but the fishermen haven't been able to catch it. Any others?

This post edited by NilsS 09:21 AM 04/13/2008

 

[guest]

striped bass
Scup
Northern shrimp
and if I'm not mistaken both squid species


This post edited by guest 09:50 AM 04/13/2008

 

[MakoMike]

I agree that if the stick recovers to NMFS/NOAA specs then the regs will be loosened, to what? I don't know. But the bigger worry in my mind is what happens if the biomass target is not reached and not only by 2013, what if we get to 2017 and we still haven't reached it. Will the scientist finally admit that they were wrong or will we have closed seaons on fluke forever?

 

[obtuseangler]

MakoMike wrote:
I agree that if the stick recovers to NMFS/NOAA specs then the regs will be loosened, to what? I don't know. But the bigger worry in my mind is what happens if the biomass target is not reached and not only by 2013, what if we get to 2017 and we still haven't reached it. Will the scientist finally admit that they were wrong or will we have closed seaons on fluke forever?

But Mike, you already answered your own question

MakoMike wrote:
The fact is that the regs are what they are. If you're going to violate them in an unorganized manner then you just a poacher and whatever you get you deserve. If you want to organize a civil disobedience demonestration have at it at and good luck. I doubt it will change a thing.