NY's 08 Commercial Scup & CbassTrip Limits Decreased to Zero
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No Scup, Seabass
Many sporties , but not all , wish our boats to sink , our families to go hungry , and for us to possibly die a slow painful death ! But heaven forbid they can't get a "fresh " bunker as a piece of bait .
Thanks to the "sporties " that do get it. We are all for reasonable conservation , my dream {now faded} was that my boys would be able to fish for a living too !
Many sporties , but not all , wish our boats to sink , our families to go hungry , and for us to possibly die a slow painful death ! But heaven forbid they can't get a "fresh " bunker as a piece of bait .
Thanks to the "sporties " that do get it. We are all for reasonable conservation , my dream {now faded} was that my boys would be able to fish for a living too !
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I hope this closure will be the straw that breaks the camels back.
I know the town of East Hampton is fighting mad. I hope the new bunch in the NY DEC has also seen the light and begins to fight.
The parties responsible for putting NY so far behind the eight ball no longer work for the NY DEC and the new bunch is getting tired of eating the $hit sandwich they were handed.
I am not much of a fan of layers or politicians but I think that is the only way to bring fisheries managers back to reality.
Claw1 wrote:
We are all for reasonable conservation , my dream {now faded} was that my boys would be able to fish for a living too
Many of us have had that dream fade in the last few years, it's a real shame.
MakoMike wrote:
Is it for all fishermen or only certain gear types?
All fishermen who wish to land scup or sea bass in NY are effected. The only exception is federally permitted vessels who purchased RSA quota.
I know the town of East Hampton is fighting mad. I hope the new bunch in the NY DEC has also seen the light and begins to fight.
The parties responsible for putting NY so far behind the eight ball no longer work for the NY DEC and the new bunch is getting tired of eating the $hit sandwich they were handed.
I am not much of a fan of layers or politicians but I think that is the only way to bring fisheries managers back to reality.
Claw1 wrote:
We are all for reasonable conservation , my dream {now faded} was that my boys would be able to fish for a living too
Many of us have had that dream fade in the last few years, it's a real shame.
MakoMike wrote:
Is it for all fishermen or only certain gear types?
All fishermen who wish to land scup or sea bass in NY are effected. The only exception is federally permitted vessels who purchased RSA quota.
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Are they managed the same way as fluke? On a quarterly basis? If so, when does the next quarter start? What was the quarterly quota and how quickly was the quota for this quarter met?
Thanks,
Chris
Thanks,
Chris
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3,017 Posts
No Fluke (basically), no scup, no sea bass........what the **** do they let you guys fish for down there?
MakoMike wrote:
You sure about that? I didn't see any notice that the federal scup season was closed.
scup
It's closed because the quota is gone...right? And if you look on the black sea bass page you can see NY quota isn't gone. So what's the reason for closing it? is it a NY thing?
This post edited by guest 05:32 PM 07/28/2008
You sure about that? I didn't see any notice that the federal scup season was closed.
scup
It's closed because the quota is gone...right? And if you look on the black sea bass page you can see NY quota isn't gone. So what's the reason for closing it? is it a NY thing?
This post edited by guest 05:32 PM 07/28/2008
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Thanks, I must have missed the letter. I still don't understand why they allocate so much of the quota to winter I and winter II and don't allow the shortfall from winter I to be rolled into summer. The quota for winter I is almost never filled and it gets rolled over to winter II.
MakoMike wrote:
The quota for winter I is almost never filled and it gets rolled over to winter II.
So... what does it matter as long as they take the quota by the end of the year. The state goes through the expense of monitoring it and adjusting the effort so that the com fishery doesn't take the whole quota in a few weeks. The paring it out part is for them so that the little guys can have a shot and so the market doesn't get flooded.
If the industry doesn't like it, take off the effort controls. then you will see them howl when the big boats clean them out by April
The quota for winter I is almost never filled and it gets rolled over to winter II.
So... what does it matter as long as they take the quota by the end of the year. The state goes through the expense of monitoring it and adjusting the effort so that the com fishery doesn't take the whole quota in a few weeks. The paring it out part is for them so that the little guys can have a shot and so the market doesn't get flooded.
If the industry doesn't like it, take off the effort controls. then you will see them howl when the big boats clean them out by April
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guest wrote:
..............The state goes through the expense of monitoring it and adjusting the effort so that the com fishery doesn't take the whole quota in a few weeks. The paring it out part is for them so that the little guys can have a shot and so the market doesn't get flooded.
The quota goes to something like 3000 lbs a day Nov 1st for the "big guys". The market floods and the price plummets. As far the 70 pounds a day for the "little guy" goes, its a joke. After expenses there is no days pay at 70 lbs.... it doesn't pay to go. The little guy can't access them in november because they have already left the inshore grounds. Sub-groups within the groups are also getting screwed by ridiculous management. Same as sub-groups in the PB industry. Western boats get screwed by fluke regs while east end guys are at least getting by.
This post edited by capt13 06:38 PM 07/28/2008
..............The state goes through the expense of monitoring it and adjusting the effort so that the com fishery doesn't take the whole quota in a few weeks. The paring it out part is for them so that the little guys can have a shot and so the market doesn't get flooded.
The quota goes to something like 3000 lbs a day Nov 1st for the "big guys". The market floods and the price plummets. As far the 70 pounds a day for the "little guy" goes, its a joke. After expenses there is no days pay at 70 lbs.... it doesn't pay to go. The little guy can't access them in november because they have already left the inshore grounds. Sub-groups within the groups are also getting screwed by ridiculous management. Same as sub-groups in the PB industry. Western boats get screwed by fluke regs while east end guys are at least getting by.
This post edited by capt13 06:38 PM 07/28/2008
capt13 wrote:
The quota goes to something like 3000 lbs a day Nov 1st for the "big guys". The market floods and the price plummets. As far the 70 pounds a day for the "little guy" goes, its a joke. After expenses there is no days pay at 70 lbs.... it doesn't pay to go. The little guy can't access them in november because they have already left the inshore grounds. Sub-groups within the groups are also getting screwed by ridiculous management. Same as sub-groups in the PB industry. Western boats get screwed by fluke regs while east end guys are at least getting by.
then get rid of the trip limits and the the sub-year quotas. Shut the fishery down when it takes a large portion of the quota and leave the rest to allow landings of the discards. See how that works. In my opinion the less regulation the better.
The quota goes to something like 3000 lbs a day Nov 1st for the "big guys". The market floods and the price plummets. As far the 70 pounds a day for the "little guy" goes, its a joke. After expenses there is no days pay at 70 lbs.... it doesn't pay to go. The little guy can't access them in november because they have already left the inshore grounds. Sub-groups within the groups are also getting screwed by ridiculous management. Same as sub-groups in the PB industry. Western boats get screwed by fluke regs while east end guys are at least getting by.
then get rid of the trip limits and the the sub-year quotas. Shut the fishery down when it takes a large portion of the quota and leave the rest to allow landings of the discards. See how that works. In my opinion the less regulation the better.
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guest wrote:
MakoMike wrote:
The quota for winter I is almost never filled and it gets rolled over to winter II.
So... what does it matter as long as they take the quota by the end of the year. The state goes through the expense of monitoring it and adjusting the effort so that the com fishery doesn't take the whole quota in a few weeks. The paring it out part is for them so that the little guys can have a shot and so the market doesn't get flooded.
If the industry doesn't like it, take off the effort controls. then you will see them howl when the big boats clean them out by April
The entire scup quota hasn't been filled in years, though that may change this year witht he drastically reduced quotas. The way it works, the vast majority of the quota gets divied up between winter I and winter II and only a small portion gets allocated to summer, when most of the small boats fish. Winter I quota is almost never fully caught, but instead of allowing the excess quota to be rolled over into summer, they keep it for the bigger boats and roll the shortfall into winter II. For the last five years or so the increased quota (including the winter I shortfall) in the winter II period hasn't been caught either.
So the big offshore boats get the vast majority of the quota, and can't or won't catch it, and meanwhile the small boat guys who only fish during the summer get screwed.
MakoMike wrote:
The quota for winter I is almost never filled and it gets rolled over to winter II.
So... what does it matter as long as they take the quota by the end of the year. The state goes through the expense of monitoring it and adjusting the effort so that the com fishery doesn't take the whole quota in a few weeks. The paring it out part is for them so that the little guys can have a shot and so the market doesn't get flooded.
If the industry doesn't like it, take off the effort controls. then you will see them howl when the big boats clean them out by April
The entire scup quota hasn't been filled in years, though that may change this year witht he drastically reduced quotas. The way it works, the vast majority of the quota gets divied up between winter I and winter II and only a small portion gets allocated to summer, when most of the small boats fish. Winter I quota is almost never fully caught, but instead of allowing the excess quota to be rolled over into summer, they keep it for the bigger boats and roll the shortfall into winter II. For the last five years or so the increased quota (including the winter I shortfall) in the winter II period hasn't been caught either.
So the big offshore boats get the vast majority of the quota, and can't or won't catch it, and meanwhile the small boat guys who only fish during the summer get screwed.
MakoMike wrote:
So the big offshore boats get the vast majority of the quota, and can't or won't catch it, and meanwhile the small boat guys who only fish during the summer get screwed.
Really? what's the break down of fish caught by boat size and landing in NY. If it's that much of a problem, then take off all of this in-year quota business and let'em fish....best man (or woman, to be PC) wins
So the big offshore boats get the vast majority of the quota, and can't or won't catch it, and meanwhile the small boat guys who only fish during the summer get screwed.
Really? what's the break down of fish caught by boat size and landing in NY. If it's that much of a problem, then take off all of this in-year quota business and let'em fish....best man (or woman, to be PC) wins
quote:
MakoMike wrote:
So the big offshore boats get the vast majority of the quota, and can't or won't catch it, and meanwhile the small boat guys who only fish during the summer get screwed.
That's pretty messed up. No wonder folks like Loligo get so steamed.
Nils, how do we do scup "right", as you often put it?
MakoMike wrote:
So the big offshore boats get the vast majority of the quota, and can't or won't catch it, and meanwhile the small boat guys who only fish during the summer get screwed.
That's pretty messed up. No wonder folks like Loligo get so steamed.
Nils, how do we do scup "right", as you often put it?
New Jersey has a similar situation with fluke - a fishery divided between big boats that can fish offshore and small boats that can't. It took years of working cooperatively (fishermen and NJDEP) until they arrived at an allocation system that seems to keep everyone equally satisfied - or dissatisfied. The fishing year is divided into several "seasons," half with larger trip limits benefiting the bigger offshore boats and half with smaller limits benefiting the smaller boats - not worth the big boat's time.
The state closely monitors landings and closes each season when the seasonal "quota" is caught.
These regs must be set annually by the legislature - which can become cumbersome but has proven workable.
No magic solution, just a lot of talking, meeting, and trial and error.
Getting it "right" with allocation issues is pretty easy - get the right guys together, give them the regulatory flexibility to do it (and to easily modify it if/when conditions change), and accept that it's not necessarily going to be spot on in year one (or year two, or whenever).
The state closely monitors landings and closes each season when the seasonal "quota" is caught.
These regs must be set annually by the legislature - which can become cumbersome but has proven workable.
No magic solution, just a lot of talking, meeting, and trial and error.
Getting it "right" with allocation issues is pretty easy - get the right guys together, give them the regulatory flexibility to do it (and to easily modify it if/when conditions change), and accept that it's not necessarily going to be spot on in year one (or year two, or whenever).
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