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NY Times on the plight of party/charter and commercial boats

3K views 22 replies 9 participants last post by  obtuseangler 
#1 ·
NY TIMES
April 13, 2008
Fishing
Party Boats Struggle With a Double Threat
By TIM WACKER

Greenport, N.Y.

FROM the perspective of the party-boat business, Dave Brennan has had it pretty good.

His boat, the 90-foot Peconic Star II, is docked here 20 minutes from some of the area?s best summer flounder fishing, and the Long Island Rail Road stops well within cooler-carrying range of his 150-passenger boat.

So why, after some 20 years, is he thinking it might be time to get out of the business?

?It?s the fuel and the fishing regulations,? Mr. Brennan said. ?Between the two of them, we?re going to have a rough season this year. There?s less time to go fishing, and it?s going to cost us a lot more when we do go.?

Party boats, a seaside staple, are under siege from Belmar, N.J., to Montauk Point, N.Y., say Mr. Brennan and others in the business. With diesel fuel prices bumping past $4 a gallon in both states and new federal limits on the most prized catch ? summer flounder, or fluke ? boat owners say it is getting too pricey to take people fishing.

?If things don?t change soon, there are going to be a lot of boats out of business,? said Capt. Paul Forsberg, owner of the Viking Fleet, five party boats and ferries based in Montauk.

Because of higher fuel costs, party boats this year are charging on average $40 to $70 a person for half-day, three-quarter-day or full-day fishing trips. That is up 10 to 20 percent over last year, when diesel fuel cost $2.50 to $3 a gallon, Mr. Brennan said. Boats can burn up to 50 gallons an hour.

Making matters worse this year, Mr. Brennan and Mr. Forsberg say, efforts to bolster the fluke population have made it harder to take legal fish home.

In New Jersey, a keeper summer flounder must be 18 inches, up one inch over last year and 1.5 inches since 2006. In New York, fluke must be 20.5 inches, up an inch over last year and 2.5 inches since 2006. New York?s fluke-fishing season has also been shortened by 16 days over last year.

Federal mandates to help fluke recover from overfishing prompted the restrictions. The stocks have rebounded, but not enough to meet federal limits. Now it is party boats that are becoming scarce, said Alan Shinn, owner of two boats in Belmar.

The number of party boats docked at the Belmar boat basin has dropped to six from nine in the past two years, Mr. Shinn said. He said he is thinking of selling one boat, the Royal Ms. Belmar, because it is losing money and he can charge only so much for a half-day of fishing.

?If we overprice things, it could price us right out of business,? he said. ?People have to pay their bills, they don?t have to go fishing.?

This season does not look much brighter for commercial fishermen. Jim Lovgren, owner of a fishing boat and a member of the Point Pleasant Fishermen?s Dock Cooperative in New Jersey, said commercial fishermen were also suffering from government fishing restrictions and rising fuel prices.

?It?s costing us about $500 a day more this year than last to go fishing,? he said of fuel expenses.

Some relief may come in New York; efforts are under way in the State Legislature to give boat owners fuel tax rebates, said Assemblyman Fred W. Thiele Jr., Republican of Sag Harbor. The state tax on diesel is 28.9 cents a gallon. Such a rebate, which is available to boats in New Jersey, would cost New York about $2 million, Mr. Thiele said.

But, he said, the state economy could lose much more than that in revenue, since hotels, restaurants, bait shops and coffee shops would suffer if party boat fishermen stopped coming to town.

If that happens, Mr. Brennan said, there may be a new business coming in: boat sales.

?You know anybody who wants a 100-passenger boat?? he said with a half-serious tone. ?I don?t know. I may be able to hang on this summer, but I know a lot of guys that are thinking of getting out.?
 
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#2 ·
Publicity

I guess it's good that this is being talked about in the regular media, as opposed to just fishing magazines, websites, ect. Perhaps it will result in more non-fishermen sympathizing with the industry.

Suprising to see that the NY Times acknoweldges that the fluke stocks are recovering, I would've thought this paper would swallow the greenie's line every time.
 
#3 ·
Morning NilsS...

Well this article has been a repeat of what has been mentioned on this website site a few hundred times this past winter. Whether it's nonsensical regulations, astronomical fuel prices, a economy in the throes of a recession, combined with a lack of interest from the general fishing public who is not fishing as much as in the past, the recreational side of the fishing industry is going to experience a prolonged shake out period where many boats and businesses will either be put out of business or move there operations to other places with more opportunity to carry customers.

Who knows how long this struggle will occur in the party boat business, but with no end to higher fuel prices, ever tightening regulations and inflationary pressure on bait, electronics and tackle, I foresee the contraction in the fishing industry for years to come. You are fooling yourself thinking things will get better for most in the fishing industry. Dollars spent here are DISCRETIONARY, not essential, and it is much cheaper today to go to your local fish store and buy some fish, then actually spending double, triple or more the cost of a fare to try and catch a bare handful of fish.

It is truly a shame as we are witnessing the demise of this industry...but as HJ says, come back in ten years and you will have more fish then you could imagine...but will the fishing businesses still be here to take people out to catch these fish?

EC NEWELL MAN<>
 
#4 ·
EC -

Unfortunately, to a large extent you are right - but I really hope not totally. I think/hope the times piece is an example of a sea-change. As JC.... mentioned, it was in the real, liberal press - in fact in the Premier liberal media outlet - and it was for the most part objective.


Bottom line is that most people have a soft spot for fishing - witness the success of places like SF's Fishermen's Wharf, Fishermen's Terminal in Seattle, the waterfront places in Gloucester, etc. All things being equal, we'd be in better shape. Unfortunately in the last ten years things have become extremely unequal thanks to the interference of "charitable" organizations - and the 99% of the people in the fishing industries who sat back and let them. Minus the rigid constraints of the SFA, the managers had the flexibility to say "well, the headboat guys are up against it with fuel costs, so let's cut 'em a break with the fluke rebuilding for a couple of years to weather the storm. Two years more rebuilding is better than half the boats out of business." Thanks to the Pew billions, no way today! But that could be changed. That would take, among other things, marginalizing groups like the Marine Fish Conservation Network that legitimize the antis efforts. But it could be done.

One "good" (and I use that word with my teeth grit) thing about all o0f the mess we're facing is that it give fishermen the incentive get together enough to change the Act. That's an awful big "might," but do any of us have a choice?

It's going to be an seriously uphill fight, but what's the alternative, and should we lay back and accept it?


Have a good one,
Nils
 
#5 ·
Nils-

You hit the nail on the head when you said that all fishermen need to be united so as to effect positive change. However, do you think this is possible? I mean, just take a look at some of the threads on this site. So many recs just instinctively hate everything and anything commercial fishing, for starters. What's more, we recs can't even stick together. I still can't get over the reactions from some people to the recent hot cod bite in Montauk, for example. I think almost every posted report from Montauk this winter was met with at least a few comments from people who thought those of us who actually got off our butts and fished shouldn't be keeping more than a few cod. Another example is that in the many threads concerning the NY fluke regs for this year, there have been people actually claiming that these regs are good, saying things like " well, I only target large fish" or " I only need one or two fluke". A third example is that partyboats seem to be a favorite whipping boy for many in the private boat and surf crowd.

The bottom line is, there are too many recs who think that keeping fish is bad. They have bought the arguments of the green groups.Plus, recs who own their own boats, or fish from shore, don't seem to understand that the fate of the rec industry does affect them.
 
#6 ·
Why not change party/charter boats to a semicommerical status?
Something between recs and pin hookers with adjustable regulations.

For example, 4 fish at 18.5". This would help to fill the boats with customers and lets be real about it, not everyone is going to limit out! Sure you do have a few "sharpies" but most of the people are there for a day on the water with their families. If they catch any fish great, if not they still enjoyed the day.

I believe party boats have to report their catches, if it appears to DEC (or any other agency) that they are taking more fish then assumed, then the regs could be readjusted to either less fluke or larger fluke.

Will this be a cure all? I don't know but at least it might save the industry.
 
#7 ·
Nils wrote:
give fishermen the incentive get together

To that end I think we need a National Fisheries Advocacy Organization. One which would represent all fishermen in this country whether they be commercial, sport, fresh water or salt. A group which is funded to fight the enviro-business groups. Fight fire with fire.

Something like the NRA for fishermen.
 
#8 ·
WaterAye wrote:
Nils wrote:
give fishermen the incentive get together

To that end I think we need a National Fisheries Advocacy Organization. One which would represent all fishermen in this country whether they be commercial, sport, fresh water or salt. A group which is funded to fight the enviro-business groups. Fight fire with fire.

Something like the NRA for fishermen.



Unfortunately I doubt that will ever happen the freshwater guys think everything is just fine. You aren't going to get many guys in Kansas signing up to defend salt water fishing. Sad but true.
 
#9 ·
National fishing organization

Mike-

If freshwater fishing were ever under attack by the enviros the way saltwater is, I'd most definately do my part to defend it, even though I have never once fished in freshwater. Why? Because it's all about precedent with these groups ( the government also). It's also the principle of the matter. If a group has a problem with freshwater fishing, I would assume they also have a problem with saltwater fishing, and vica versa.

Besides, what's to say that freshwater fishing isn't next on the enviros', and their government allies, agenda?
 
#10 ·
JC wrote:
I have never once fished in freshwater

JC, you have got to try it. Fresh water fishing is like a whole different sport. It is very very enjoyable and relaxing. Some of my favorite fishing has been in fresh water. Banging the banks from a canoe in the Adirondacks and fly fishing in rivers of western Montana for trout.


The only regret I have about working as a charter boat captain and a commercial fisherman is that I can no longer afford to take time in the season to go camping and fresh water fishing.

You have a very pleasant experience waiting for you.

MakoMike wrote:
freshwater guys think everything is just fine. You aren't going to get many guys in Kansas signing up to defend salt water fishing.

For the most part I agree with you. 99% of fresh water fishermen are not nearly as miffed as salt water users. The only exceptions I can think of are the Noodlers and maybe some andromonous fisheries like shad and salmon fishermen.
 
#14 ·
WaterAye wrote:
ASA is for recreational fishermen, I don't think they represent commercial fishermen at all.

Ofr course you are correct that they don't represent commercial fishermen That's right in their name! :rolleyes:
But they do represent both fresh and salt water recreational fishermen. Is there a nationwide commercial fishing organization?
 
#15 ·
MakoMike wrote:
Is there a nationwide commercial fishing organization?

I don't think there is.

The ocean crisis / enviro business groups are national and numerous. We need at least one nation wide fishing industry (recreational, commercial, party-charter, fresh water and salt)advocacy group. They need to represent all fishermen and allied industry with one voice.

Politics and layers are the only way to bring management back to reality.
 
#17 ·
Sweetwater

Watereye-

Does sound pleasant, indeed! I think I may be trying the fresh side soon, once my little nephew gets a little older. I live literally about one minute from Massapequa Reservior, which is stocked every spring. I think that would be a nice way to introduce him to fishing ( God knows taking him for flounder off a local dock, as my dad did for me, wouldn't be the best thing :rolleyes: !)
 
#18 ·
Mike -

There are three sort of "national" commercial industry organizations. Commercial Fishermen of America, which was started in 2006, only wants fisherman members and is pretty focused on healthcare and disaster relief, the Seafood Coalition, which is an ad hoc group of domestic industry organization leaders (I was one of the people who started it), on-water and on-shore orgs both, and National Fisheries Institute, which also represents importers and aquaculture, but does a good job of representing the domestic industry.

More later, I'll be gone until Thursday.
 
#19 ·
Nils, Thanks! I was pretty sure I had read in the NF about a couple of national commercial fishermen's groups. The other thing that needs to be considered is that not all commercial fishermen have convergent interests. For example the guys in Alaska that have the IFQs think that system is just fine while the guys on the east coast have been fighting IFQs for years.
 
#20 ·
I am shocked at this news about difficulties in the PB business. I would have thought that all of the posters in the "I only keep what I need and throw everything else back" crowd would be all be standing in line to sail on the PBs keeping them with full rails for this upcoming season.
 
#21 ·
Seajay2 wrote:
I am shocked at this news about difficulties in the PB business. I would have thought that all of the posters in the "I only keep what I need and throw everything else back" crowd would be all be standing in line to sail on the PBs keeping them with full rails for this upcoming season.

Yeah, all three of them! :rolleyes:
 
#23 ·
Seajay2 wrote:
I am shocked at this news about difficulties in the PB business. I would have thought that all of the posters in the "I only keep what I need and throw everything else back" crowd would be all be standing in line to sail on the PBs keeping them with full rails for this upcoming season.


:) or at the very least pay their fare so they can be on the spot to report people taking fish .000001 inches under the limit.:)
 
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