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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,
Lemme get ya up to speed and then I'll ask ya a big favor.

As of September 12th, The DEP and NYC made the desicion to close the water supply system, its reservoirs, hunting lands, and connecting streams to all citizens.

A group of outdoorsmen from the area are petitioning the Goverment officials to implement a plan to reopen these areas by orginizing a Water Watch Patrol Program. The letter details the need for such a program.

I'll also attach a short mailing list of represenitives that we are trying to reach. If anybody has the fax and phone numbers to these individuals, please post them.

Heres the letter.

I am writing this letter in response to ban by the Department of Enviromental Protection (DEP) on hunting and fishing on and in New York City's watershed areas. Its is evident that we need to protect the water supply, and the local hunters and fishermen have always been a front-line source of information and monitoring of activities and conditions in these communities. The large area of lakes, reservoirs (and the streams that connect them) which comprise the watershed system cannot be adequatly patrolled by the already short staffed DEP. We feel that the ban which removes the local sportsmen and women from the area has put these resources in even greater jeopardy.

This is a time in America's history that all of us feel the spirt of volunteerism and the need to be involved in the protection of our families and country. In their regular activities, the local sportsmen and women can provide a force of skilled personnel to patrol and maintain the safety of areas with which they are already familiar. The information that is on record with New York State through the licensing and permit requirement for fishing and hunting can provide a data base to create a "Water Watch Patrol" which can augment the limited numbers of DEP personnel.

We are circulating this letter to the appropriate State and Federal agencies, the press and people in the affected communities to begin a process for the establishment of a Water Watch Patrol that will be orginized to protect our freedom, health, and future.

PLEASE OPEN OUR RESERVOIRS SOON

(end)

George Pataki
Executive Chambers
State Capital
Albany, New York 10509

Willis Stephens Jr.
110 Old Route 6
Carmel, NY 10512

Joel A. Miele Sr.
P.E. Commisioner
59-17 Junction Blvd.
19th Floor
Flushing, NY 11373-5108

Robert J. Bondi
County Building
40 Gleneida Ave.
Carmel NY 10512

Sue Kelly
116 Radio Circle
Mt Kisco NY 10549

Hilary Clinton
405 Lexington Ave.
NY, NY

Charles E. Schumer
757 3rd Ave. Room 17-02
NY, NY

Vincent Leibell III
100 Southeast Business Center
Suite 301
Brewster NY 10509

For more info please contact:

Richard Homan
Bobcat Sports
Mahopac NY
(845) 621-9880

Thanks guys.
 

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Sorry Clash but millions of New Yorkers feel safer with the land being closed to everyone. The investigators have proved that the terrorists that flew the missions on 9/11 were living normal, eventless lives in the USA for years before they answered their call to give their lives for their crazy beliefs. The biggest kick in the ass is that we taught them how to fly a jumbo jet in our very own flight schools!

It is obvious that the easiest way a terrorist could gain access to the New York City water supply would be if they were pretending to be hunters or fishermen. Our Country is already embarassed that we taught the terrorists how to fly. The City & State of New York could not live with the humiliation of it being publicly known that terrorists contaminated the water supply while gaining access to the water via reservoir fishing permits & hunting licenses.

Sorry, we have no way of knowing which licensed hunters/fishermen could be the bad guys. Don't take this the wrong way, but we can't trust anyone, not even you. For all we know, you could desperately want the water/land to be open to the public again because you are a terrorist who needs to gain access.

Sorry, but the government officials are right not to take any chances. It also looks like this is not just a temporary security measure. Be prepared to hear that we will never be allowed to fish or hunt near the reservoirs ever again. It's a small price we have to pay for the safety of millions.

Sorry.
 

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In regards to the safety of our water supply. The reality is that any attempt by terrorists or anyone else to poison or otherwise contaminate an open reservoir is remote in the extreme. The amount of contaminent needed for such a task would have to be trucked in. Emptied in massive quanities. And then go undetected through the City's filtering plants.
Do not let FEAR win. Disruption of our lives through fear. Is what this is all about. We're AMERICANS. We don't give into Extortion through terror or any other means!
 

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i saw something on the tube about reservoir security. they said , as did surfcaster, that the threat to the water itself was remote due to the volume of contaminant needed vs the volume of the reservoir. i found this hard to believe given that there are some potent substances in existence, but the experts say not to fear that.

the credible threat is said to be to the reservoir infrastructure such as pumphouses and monitoring stations and these are being carefully guarded at this time. it seems reasonable that opening up areas not in the immediate vicinity of these vulnerable facilities to licensed anglers/hunters could be an asset to security rather than an impediment. if not now, then in the foreseeable future.

set,
opinari
 

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Two weeks ago the "experts" stated that the world supply of anthrax was so small and controlled that it was very unlikely that any Americans could be infected as a result of criminal activity.

-Don't believe everything the experts tell you.

The truth is that there are dozens of chemicals that can be dangerous to humans even if they are massively diluted. There are also many that can cause massive fish kills which would also render the water undrinkable for a few months.

Even if it takes "truck loads", what if some terrorists plan multiple trips with SUV's filled with a toxic liquid over the course of a week?

What if terrorists purchased/rented properties near streams that flow into the reservoirs and they are brewing toxic chemicals in swimming pools to release into the streams?

-There are too many "what if's?".

We are also not hearing/seeing the results of their investigations. It is quite possible that they are enforcing this lockdown because they have concrete evidence that a plot to do something was already in existence. We need to trust their judgement and not make it any more difficult for them to do their job or enforce their rules.

This is just like the charter boat captains who fish out of New York Harbor who lost thousands of dollars because the harbor was closed down right after the attacks. It's not fair but it is necessary. We need to stick together and do what is necessary to win this new war. Personal sacrifices are a part of it.

United we stand...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Doc,

All of the reasons you just stated are the very reasons we want this program. Right now the DEP and national guard are only guarding the buildings and structures (aquaducts, dams and bridges). On the water patrols are only done during the day and are very limited to what waters they can patrol due to the fact that most of the reservoirs have no boat ramps. There are litteraly hundreds if not thousands of miles of unguarded shore line and rivers that the DEP simply has no means to patrol.

I know guys that are still fishing up there. I know people that are patroling on their own. We just want to do whats right. I'm not saying that whats in the letter is perfect, I didn't write it or publicize it. But there must be some discussion with the goverment about this, Hopefully this will get the ball rolling.

Thanks.
 

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I think that many of you are forgetting the incindent that occured earlier this summer, when a swimming pool was drained and it's contents managed to find it's way into the trophy trout section of the Amawalk outflow stream. This stream links Amawalk to additional Reservoir's. The result was the chlorine in the pool water killed all of the trophy trout found in the stream. I was there and saw many large trout up to 28" floating dead in the stream. The chlorine was thinned out by the time that it reached the reservoir's so no damage was done to them. However this should teach us all a lesson, a terrorist would NOT have to be on state land in order to tamper with our water supply. I say the state should open up our lands and waters to fishing/hunting /and boating. The more sportsmen we have out there the better the chance of someone getting caught tampering with our natural resourses.
 

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There is a substance called BOTULINUM. One ounce can kill 1 million humans.

With toxic agents like Botulinum out there the New York City water supply is a sitting duck. The City, State & Federal governments are aware. They are researching ways to fortify the watershed. Some metropolitan areas literally have 10 foot cement walls surrounding their reservoirs and their supply rivers/streams. It's anybody's guess what New York will decide. They do seem very convinced that allowing the public to access the land is an invitation for trouble. They also stand by the notion that since the City owns the land, the City taxpayers and leaders ultimately have the final say as to what to do. The majority of the City residents would vote to keep the land closed. They would argue that many of the fishermen/hunters who use the land have no right to complain about these security measures because they aren't even City residents.
 

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Sorry, Crash, to pour cold water on your request for us all to send in a petition requesting that all reservoirs and water supplies be available to us fishermen, et all. It's just too scary to think that someone could have access to the NYC water supply and "dump" some chemical or germ into it. Let's remember-fishing is secondary. The health of the NYC residents (and the rest of us) is what's important. Whatever the officials decide is fine with me....and, by the way, I am not a NYC resident.
 

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I appreciate the comments and concerns posted on this topic. However I still am convinced that closing the reservoirs to fishing is not going to solve anything.

If terrorists or anyone else get their hands on anything as deadly as Docfish suggests. Are they really going to be detered by a NO FISHING sign!

Let's get real for a moment. We do not have anywhere near the law enforcement resourses needed to protect our miles of open reservoirs. Not to mention the streams and rivers.

Speaking of rivers. NYC gets part of it's drinking water from the Hudson. Are we going to close that to?

We can't and won't LIVE IN FEAR!
 

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All of you need to look at this from a different angle to understand why we should pick and choose the right battles and why this is one battle that fishermen do not want to pick.

Let's just say that the State honors your petition an re-opens the land to fishing and hunting. And let's also say that some stupid idiot does tamper with the water supply and innocent children get sick or even die. Politics are all about shifting blame to others. If the media & public found out that the land was re-opened partly because of your petition, ALL fishermen/hunters will be blamed for the breach in security. Your petition will be viewed in the public eye as the reason why the terrorists gained easy access to the water!

Do you really think it's worth that risk? We sportsmen are always getting shafted whenever it comes to allocating tax dollars to improve our fisheries, create boat ramps, clean the environment, etc.... If the public puts us on their sh*t list, we may never see another dime of taxpayers money.

Do we really want to risk it? Do we really want to be blamed?

NO!

We have to cooperate. I know the securtity really sucks. I know that it is impossible for them to guard the watershed. I know sportsmen would do a much better job protecting the area.

But aren't you better off keeping your mouth shut and then when something happens you can be the first to say "I TOLD YOU SO" rather than being the group that the public points the finger at to blame???

THINK ABOUT IT!
 

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it amazes me that you guys can be so dogmatic about your positions on this issue when you really may not have all the facts.

in my other post on this topic, i told about a tv special that explained that the experts say the threat to the water supply is not to the water itself but to the infrastructure of the reservoirs. i expressed some skepticism in light of the existence of several very potent substances.

doctorfish says don't believe the experts. i can't take that advice. we are at war,and even the most skeptical amongst us must place our trust in our governmental authorities.

it is entirely possible that there actually is a credible threat to the water itself, and the authorities are aware of this and are monitoring the entire area. any hunters or fishers might set off false alarms. they may not be publically acknowledging the threat to avoid unnecessary panic. if you don't trust the authorities, then don't drink the water.

believe me, if the waters are indeed at risk, that petition is going nowhere.

on the other hand, if the reality is as stated by the authorities and the surrounding areas are not being monitored, then opening these areas up to sportsmen may be helpful since these areas could be used as a staging base for an attack on the infrastructure.

i have to wonder, how many members of the FDNY, NYPD, NY STATE TROOPERS,NATIONAL GUARD,& ARMY RESERVE normally fish ,hunt, hike & boat in & around the nyc reservoirs.

set,
opinari
 

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Opinari,

Just yesterday our new National Director of Homeland Security stated at a press conferance at the White House that one of his top priorities is to protect our Nation's drinking water from chemical & biological contamination. He made it clear that our drinking watersheds throughout the Country are at risk. The problem is that too many tv stations are broadcasting the opinions of their own experts. Like I stated earlier, a few weeks ago many of the tv stations aired experts who stated that nobody has died of anthrax in the U.S. since the 1970's and it was virtually impossible for terrorists to replicate enough anthrax to make anyone sick. Where are those tv experts now???? I do trust the authorities and they are saying that there is a real threat of contamination, not just to the infrastructure. You should never trust those tv specials.
 

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I hate to keep hammering home the same point. However it is obvious that we are dealing with people who are willing to fly airliners into the WTC.
It's not very likly that they are going to be stopped from pouring a contaminent into our reservoirs.
Simply by closing watershed lands to fishermen and hunters. We need all the eyes and ears we can get.
And some of the best eyes and ears in our country are those of our anglers and hunters.
 

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doctorfish,

the tv special that i described was about the risks to the nyc reservoirs and the response being taken by our government to this threat following the start of the war on september 11th.
it aired about 2-3 weeks ago on abc or cnn.

it was not a hypothetical scenario being kicked around by "media experts".

at this point in time, i trust that the authorities are alert and properly informed.

i see no harm in outdoor enthusiasts offering present or future assistance.



set,
opinari
 

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The risk is political. Be careful of what you ask for. If you send a petition to open the reservoirs and you are successful, be prepared to receive the blame should something happen.

The newspapers will read "NYC Water Supply Contaminated, Sportsmen To Blame". The first line of the article will read "According to authorities, terrorists gained easy access to the water supply because sportsmen successfully petitioned to lift the security measures that were initially imposed following the world trade center attack". George Pataki might say something like "Had the sportsmen allowed us to keep the area closed to the public, we might have prevented this attack from happening".

I agree that it's a bunch of crap. I agree that there is not an increased threat to the water supply if they allow us to hunt or fish there. But these are ELECTED officials making these decisions. They need to please the group that will provide them with the largest number of votes at the next election. If they screw up and they have a group like us to shift the blame to, trust me, WE WILL BE THERE SCAPEGOATS. Be careful of what you wish for. We could lose State funding & support for a very long time.

The commercial fishermen & their lobbying groups will be right along side PETA and the animal activists chanting to the public "I TOLD YOU SO!" "RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN & HUNTERS ARE SELFISH, GREEDY, EVIL PEOPLE".

-It could happen.
 

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Docfish,

With all do respect. It's highly doubtful that the press will give any attention to our petition. The important thing is to get us all back out there. And not just because we like to fish and hunt.
But because we can make a differnce if anyone really did try to sabotage our watershed. Even more importantly we need to show these DIRT-BAGS that we can't be intimidated!
 

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doctorfish,

crash's petition is over. you notice how we haven't heard from him in almost a week.

well it turns out the entire area was under total surveilance the whole time by the cia.

a few days ago he and his buddies were out patrolling the marshy banks when they were vaporized by robotic drones disguised as canadian geese. poor guys never had a chance. too bad, they meant well.

set,
opinari
 

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Thank you Opinari. I love a good debate and sometimes I get too caught up in them. Your last post broke that trend on this one.

Remember when the DEC wanted to see how many hunters would illegally take a shot at a buck that they spotted while driving on the New York state thruway? They put a cardboard decoy at the end of a field and waited in the bushes to watch what happened. I think there were 37 violators who were fined in just one weekend. The experiment ended when one clown turned the decoy into swiss cheese when he emptied an entire 30-round clip from an Ak-47 semi-automatic assault rifle.

The CIA using Robotic drones dressed as Canadian Geese would be interesting...
 
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