[twofinbluna]

Article from Gloucester Times

"Federal fishery management officials are discussing a major shift in regulating that would scrap the days-at-sea approach to protecting stocks in favor of specific catch quotas.

And a major groundfish industry group is conceding that in order to survive, individual boat owners may have to organize into 'harvesting cooperatives.'"

This post edited by twofinbluna 09:56 PM 02/20/2008

 

[loligo]

Bye bye public property fishing rights....

Only 70% of GB cod left as it is... the CCCHFA owns 30%

who will be left to fish after the sectors are formed and what will they fish for??

This sector management is a pig in a wedding gown.

I'm so glad my boat has wheels

 

[WaterAye]

Are we heading toward eventual IFQ/ITQ?

If DAS was used in conjunction with zero discard management from the start we may have never gotten so far down this path.

It's sadly ironic that fisheries management has destroyed most fishermen's cooperatives in the last 15 years. Shinne**** Fishermen's Coop lasted thirty years and finally had to give up a few years back.

Now they want them to form again???

 

[bmunson]

When I've heard these changes discussed at Council meetings, the council members are careful to draw potential differentiation of fishing rules between those commercial fishermen who join sectors and would be put under hard TAC rules, and between all the non-sector fishermen, referred to as "the common pool". The contemplated rules changes would not be offerred to the common pool fishermen. The council has clearly been interested in holding a hard line on the numbers of any species which could be caught and are under their regional control. And why is this emphasis comming up again?

The NEFMC must present a completely formulated groundfish plan which will end overfishing on some of the groundfish species of special concern. I don't know if these "refocused" decisions will prevent the NEFMC from meeting the need to end overfishing as described in the new Magnison act. But the NMFS as already said they would step in and set the rules themselves if the NEFMC can meet the timelines for ending overfishing. The commercials were not very happy the last time that NMFS started setting the actual fishing rules.

 

[twofinbluna]

WaterAye wrote:
Are we heading toward eventual IFQ/ITQ?

I personally hope not because I only see that leading to rapid consolidation and we do not want that, or atleast, I dont want that. But there are no doubt plenty of people pushing for that kind of system. I just hope that if somehow we end up there, that it is done in a way that does not simply wipe out all the small guys and many of the big guys (Thing is, I do not know if that is possible, thus my opposition to that type of system).

WaterAye wrote:

If DAS was used in conjunction with zero discard management from the start we may have never gotten so far down this path.


As you know, though, unfortunately it was not. If it had been, they would have avoided all the wasteful discards and probably been on a path that would have led them to some wort of system with quotas (which is something that the law is making them go to now, and now they have to make up a system with some kind of quotas essentially overnight...hence, IMO, one of the reasons they are jumping headfirst into this sector thing).

They then attempted to continue changing the rules over and over without taking the steps necessary to make it work. It seems like most people dont want anything to do with DAS anymore even if there was a way to make the DAS system work. I don't blame them, either.

Have you tried reading through all the regulations in place now with DAS? It has been messed with so many times that its all but impossible to read and understand. It is no wonder that it has so little support- its a mess! Totally illogical and beyond saving, IMO. I dont know if sectors are the answer, but I dont see how they could salvage the DAS system. They would have to basically erase everything and start over, and few, if any, will be supportive of that!

WaterAye wrote:


It's sadly ironic that fisheries management has destroyed most fishermen's cooperatives in the last 15 years. Shinne**** Fishermen's Coop lasted thirty years and finally had to give up a few years back.

Now they want them to form again???

I do not know enough to say whether I think they will work or not now. I know that the Yankee Co-Op in Seabrook has seemed to weather the storm OK (relatively), but as you point out, many have not (the one in Portsmouth just down the road from Seabrook fell apart last year).

Whatever happens, hopefully there will be enough involvement by the groundfish fleet- all parts of it, not just the ones doing well or the ones from a certain are and not from other areas- to get a result that people can work with. I know that groundfish guys have been disheartened and demoralized by years of BS, but the ones still around need to stay involved or else they will end up with a system they dont like anymore than they like DAS.




This post edited by twofinbluna 12:10 AM 02/15/2008

 

[Codkiller]

Does this mean the end of rolling and "permanant" closed areas?

Bob

 

[loligo]

WaterAye wrote:

If DAS was used in conjunction with zero discard management from the start we may have never gotten so far down this path.

You said it brother.....Amen to that!!

 

[WaterAye]

I guess they have to try something, as Twofinbluna points out, the DAS regs are a tangled mess.

Groundfish TACs will require NMFS to monitor quotas (dealer reports)for many more species and sectors then currently do.

 

[MakoMike]

Codkiller wrote:
Does this mean the end of rolling and "permanant" closed areas?

Bob

I don't think so.

 

[MakoMike]

WaterAye wrote:
If DAS was used in conjunction with zero discard management from the start we may have never gotten so far down this path.


You should add to that "if they had used realistic numbers of DAS" Initally they used a total DAS number that guaranteed that the TAC wold be exceeded, but no one had the guts to tell the boats that they couldn't fish as much as they would like.

 

[loligo]

WaterAye wrote:
I guess they have to try something, as Twofinbluna points out, the DAS regs are a tangled mess.

Groundfish TACs will require NMFS to monitor quotas (dealer reports)for many more species and sectors then currently do.


Bingo!!!! We have a winner!!!

And this means MORE GUBMINT employees!!!! to monitor all those additional reporting entities......

 

[twofinbluna]

new article

The saga continues (GDT)

"Federal fishing regulators last night ended three days of landmark meetings short of their goal ? to finish within reach of a reorganization of the industry based on harvesting cooperatives."

 

[twofinbluna]

Article on groundfish, sectors, etc

This article came out in the last CFN, so a few weeks old, but wanted to post since it discusses this stuff and I dont think its been posted yet.

NMFS warns council to stay on groundfish schedule

"In the bluntest terms possible, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) has told the New England Fishery Management Council that it must stay on track with Amendment 16 to the groundfish plan or face the possibility of secretarial action."

 

[loligo]

twofinbluna wrote:
T
NMFS warns council to stay on groundfish schedule

"In the bluntest terms possible, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) has told the New England Fishery Management Council that it must stay on track with Amendment 16 to the groundfish plan or face the possibility of secretarial action."

In other words F sector management and do what we told you to do....

In this instance-I agree with NMFS- did I just say that????

However- I think that DAS needs to be eliminated or at least only used for the big boats- let the small hook and net boats fish- no days- just a weekly limit- and a credit card type system where they have to swipe a transaction card everytime they sell- if they go over their limit- they are penalized and it comes off their next weeks limit- but they don't get to keep the ovearge- it goes to the foodbanks...I'd say that way the incentive to cheat/overfish is gone and the fishermen will still fish, except they will have to figure out how and when to fish so they are doing it more efficiently, on several fronts, economically and sustainably too- DAS was really a tool for limiting the efforts of the trawlers- it's just the govts fault and the councils fault for letting it go on this long- and the sectors- thats just jealousy because CCCHFA STOLE 30% of the GB cod and the other fishermen are all jealous of them...can't say I blame them- if I had an exclusive on 1% of the TAL on sea bass, I'd never be heard from again

This post edited by loligo 05:44 AM 02/17/2008

 

[LooneyTunes]

WRITING THE BOOK HOW TO RAPE THE RESOURCES OF THE SEA

loligo wrote:
In other words F sector management and do what we told you to do....

In this instance-I agree with NMFS- did I just say that????

However- I think that DAS needs to be eliminated or at least only used for the big boats- let the small hook and net boats fish- no days- just a weekly limit- and a credit card type system where they have to swipe a transaction card everytime they sell- if they go over their limit- they are penalized and it comes off their next weeks limit- but they don't get to keep the ovearge- it goes to the foodbanks...I'd say that way the incentive to cheat/overfish is gone and the fishermen will still fish, except they will have to figure out how and when to fish so they are doing it more efficiently, on several fronts, economically and sustainably too- DAS was really a tool for limiting the efforts of the trawlers- it's just the govts fault and the councils fault for letting it go on this long- and the sectors- thats just jealousy because CCCHFA STOLE 30% of the GB cod and the other fishermen are all jealous of them...can't say I blame them- if I had an exclusive on 1% of the TAL on sea bass, I'd never be heard from again

I don't know if the weekly limit is a good thing. You have to remember that you are commercial fishing and it doesn't preclude you from being a stewart of the resource. You know the saying they call it fishing not catching. Give the fish a chance. If you don't catch your daily limit let them live and breed. There is always tomorrow. You shouldn't be allowed to harvest yesterdays quota the next day. Why have quotas?

And on the other hand, your card swipe idea is a breeding ground for continued corruption and misreporting. Oh, yeah, I forgot my card on the boat, I 'll swipe tomorrow, it's a weekly quota. Nod, wink, Okay, we'll do it tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes.

Now, as far as overages; ANY OVERAGE IS A WASTE OF THE RESOURCE. Why would you justify killing too many fish by giving it to the foodbanks? THEY ARE STILL DEAD!

Just wondering.

LooneyTunes
Dave

 

[loligo]

loonacy?

LooneyTunes wrote:
[
Why would you justify killing too many fish by giving it to the foodbanks? THEY ARE STILL DEAD!

Just wondering.
LooneyTunes
Dave

Because I'd rather feed it to some homeless or better to some elderly who are needy than to shovel it overboard to feed the dogfish.

Looney is right, perhaps he's a genius

A deaf one though

I catch all my fish with a fishing pole except for my bait and I basically only catch what I am supposed to- but funny as it may sound of all my fishing I do, I find my fishing pole is the least adept at not catching small fish, of all species too. Huh?

But it is the best at not catching more than I am supposed to and at discarding fish with a high probability for survival, partly because of the gear, but mostly because of my experience.

Agenda's are cute aren't they?

 

[LooneyTunes]

OK Mr. Charity

loligo wrote:

Because I'd rather feed it to some homeless or better to some elderly who are needy than to shovel it overboard to feed the dogfish.

Looney is right, perhaps he's a genius

A deaf one though

If you want to feed the hungry,Prove to us that your are the ultimate humanitarian and feed the hungry from your quota not you excess.

LooneyTunes
Dave

 

[loligo]

more loonacyyyyyyy? Is that you Martha?

LooneyTunes wrote:

I don't know if the weekly limit is a good thing. You have to remember that you are commercial fishing and it doesn't preclude you from being a stewart of the resource. You know the saying they call it fishing not catching. Give the fish a chance. If you don't catch your daily limit let them live and breed. There is always tomorrow. You shouldn't be allowed to harvest yesterdays quota the next day. Why have quotas?

OK no quotas? fine with me what would martha do?

LooneyTunes wrote:

And on the other hand, your card swipe idea is a breeding ground for continued corruption and misreporting. Oh, yeah, I forgot my card on the boat, I 'll swipe tomorrow, it's a weekly quota. Nod, wink, Okay, we'll do it tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes.

You are implying that most fishermen are criminals....- can you please go back wherever it was you were before you came back?

No card - no transaction, period, very simple, completely enforceable.
I see no reason it can't work, it has served as the standard of transactions for over a decade now, POP, it works. I've heard "guest" claim it's really complicated-I disagree- hey- I met the guy who services the sytems for a major retailer, it's not that complicated, I understood it and I'm just a dumb fisherman.

a weekly limit would be for a calendar week, so you could catch all your fish on a Tuesday and then take the rest of the week off, no fishing beyond the calendar weeks limit, forwards or backwards.

I don't know why I keep explaining this, but.

 

[loligo]

LooneyTunes wrote:
loligo wrote:

Because I'd rather feed it to some homeless or better to some elderly who are needy than to shovel it overboard to feed the dogfish.

Looney is right, perhaps he's a genius

A deaf one though

If you want to feed the hungry,Prove to us that your are the ultimate humanitarian and feed the hungry from your quota not you excess.

LooneyTunes
Dave

Are you deaf? - I don't have an excess!

 

[LooneyTunes]

FINALLY THE FIRST PERFECT COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN.....GIVE HIM EVERYONE'S QUOTA

loligo wrote:
a weekly limit would be for a calendar week, so you could catch all your fish on a Tuesday and then take the rest of the week off, no fishing beyond the calendar weeks limit, forwards or backwards.

So you want a 1 day work week and tax payer financed health benefits too. I work 5 days a week for my benefits. Loligo feels that Commercial fishermen should have customized rules just to make life easy for them because everybody picks on them.

loligo wrote:
I don't know why I keep explaining this, but.
I'll give you a hint, because nobody's buying it and you keep trying to dress it up different till someone finally agrees with you.

loligo wrote:
Are you deaf? - I don't have an excess!

And since you are the perfect fisherman and don't have excess or by-catch it means that there is no excess in the commercial fisheries. ROTFLMFAO.

At least you are staying on topic.

LooneyTunes
Dave