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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi yall happy new year, and i hope we will live to see many many more.

i searching for a good fishfinder to put use on my 26 carver montego, i am looking for a color unit, i am mostly into finding wrecks ect aka toging, i will be mostly fishing the rockaway reef, sandy hook reef and 17 fathom when the weather is right. today we fish 17 fathom and i ask the capt how much feet of water we was fishing and he said 110 feet. that said i will need a unit that can easly read bottom without asking it tooo much.

my friend has a humminbird matrix 97 on his boat and that mashine realy paint a good bottom, my next choise is a lowrance x107 df, 502 df, ect last i am looking into the old furuno 582 video sounder,?? what is the video meant will it burn too much battery while fishing a spot for a long time??? is the video thing a old fashion and maybe hard to repair if broken. i already know how to tweak a fishfinder to get most of it out put power.


your thought guys rockawa reef dept about 40 feet max sandy hook reef 55 to about 65 17 i dont know much. also raymarine units not spending over 600 dollars
 

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For a good picture....

You can't match the old sounders...todays LCD's are nice, but for the $$
you can't beat the old Cat ray machines, the pictures are far far suprior and they actually cost less than a LCD of comparable picture...

Good luck out there
 

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Hello Bolo & Happy New Year!

As Loligo stated, the older sounders, especially the higher end ones with the cat-ray tube were SUPERIOR as far as HOW they read the bottom. The old high end Raytheons in the metal case, or the old Furunos which had those funny looking symbols right next to the buttons and knobs which go back to the days of the old paper machines, were just incredible on how they read 'hairs' on the bottom, or low bottom with little relief.

The problem with keeping these machines though is the cost, and the marine electronic companies phased them out as advances were made in both the software and hardware of the newer machines that we now see today.

Most any bottom machine can read bottom like we see on 17 fathoms...as a matter of fact, that is not much of a test for a true bottom machine these days. A old Apelco flasher unit could do the same thing if you knew how to interpert the 'thickness' in the return of the signal!

If I had to look at two machines for bottom fishing right now, which you can purchase at a reasonable cost, one would be the Furuno 585, which I have heard rave reviews about from the fishermen who have purchased them.

The second company I would use, and actually choose over the Furuno would be the finders from Lowrance, with this GPS unit built in.



The Lowrance products read bottom like the old paper machines did, and with the sensitivity adjustments and fine tuning features that come with the machine, you can pick up any piece of bottom in the ocean. Even better is that some of the models have a hard drive with a removable card where you can record what you have run over during the day with your vessel, take it home, and then using Lowrances software on your computer, take a good look at some of the images that you fished or missed when you ran it over. It has a feature in the software where you can highlight the piece of bottom, and the Lat/Lon numbers come up!

I should point out, that as good as the machines are, as or more important is the transducer you choose. Purchase the best that you can afford, and make sure that it is installed properly. Like with stereo's where the speakers allow us to hear the sound, the transducer picks up the signals that the machine sends out, and then receives.

Without a doubt if I had to purchase a bottom machine, this is the picture that I would want to see:



This picture is definitely self explanatory on what is a piece of the bottom, and what are the fish readings....

EC NEWELL MAN><

This post edited by EC NEWELL MAN 10:50 AM 01/01/2008
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
great EC i know you would put out some great in fo as usal, last year before i sold my other boat i have the lowrance x107 df and it painted the bottom almost like that pic you have above, same darkish bottom with life on the bottom showing nice red and greenish,.

you should see how strpers look on the hummindbird matrix 97 wow beautiful .

EC i read your post about that paper chart mashine and i find it very very intresting great job, i didnt know the wider the space between the gray line when using that feature is the harder the bottom, great learning.

keep it coming guys, thanks
 

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Bolo...there will be another article coming out in the NOREAST CLUB section on 17 fathoms strategies that you will enjoy.

If I get time, I will post some of the old paper readings in the WHEELHOUSE FORUM.

As you stated, their are machines such as the Hummingbird that will read fish and bottom very well. For me, the Lowrance machines seem to give the closest representation to that of the old paper machines.

EC NEWELL MAN><
 

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wow...where was that? thats an awesome picture EC....

EC NEWELL MAN wrote:

Without a doubt if I had to purchase a bottom machine, this is the picture that I would want to see:



This picture is definitely self explanatory on what is a piece of the bottom, and what are the fish readings....

EC NEWELL MAN><
 

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JR...out of Jones Inlet, courtesy of the other moderator (Togmaster) here who took the picture.

Boy I would love to run this machine right off in the southwest area of the Elizabeth Islands, right north of Cutty Hunk.

You wouldn't know what to stop on with all that bottom in there.

EC NEWELL MAN><
 

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This spring i installed a furuno 585 with a 600 watt ducer.....unbeleivable totally awesome!!!I have nothing bad to say about this unit.I researcherd for a while.I think this was my best choice.First LCD sounder i ever had.Took a little bit to get used to after staring at CRT sounders my whole life,but alot better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
gps number for 17

thanks i realy cant wait to read the 17 fathom info, EC if you dont mind stick a gps # for 17 fathom in the info doesnt have to be over any wreck just a number to get me close aka in the area lol, thanks.
 

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Hello Bolo...using my space age chart mapping software I can give you a couple of points of reference which you can plug into your GPS>

Now I lay no claim to these being EXACTLY on the money. I am just going by what I see on the chart. It is up to you to know the difference, and if you need some ideas, take a look at my latest NOREAST CLUB article which goes in depth about reading bottom using old paper images from 20 years ago.

Ok since it's the season for giving...what other moderator would do this, right?

N.W Grds

40-23.105
73-48.407 103 foot

N.E. Grds

40-22.967
73-47.887 120 foot edge area

New Grounds 109 feet above 650 line

40-23.814
73-48.973

S/W Grds

40-22.448
73-48.022

East of Mud Buoy

40-22.768
73-50.082

Now don't go running up to party and charter boats punching the MOB button. Just use these numbers as a guide to get in the area...this is how you learn, by doing...keep a eye on the bottom machine...watch for differences and color changes of the bottom on your machine.

Most of all, let me know what you find on these spots... I am pretty interested too in seeing what is on them!

EC NEWELL MAN><
 

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I have the 585 with the 600 watt ducer on my 35 willis beal in carolina sick machine blows the 582 away which i have on my boat in ny gonna put a flush mount 1000 watt ducer for bottom fishing out in the deep deep the 600 is great up until 550ft than u start to lose the red.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thanks much

EC thanks again normally if someone else puts these number out i would not install them in my garmin, but i have great trust in what you wrote, if you get what i means some guys will just post a number and when you try using it you might end up in cuba, lol

about mugging a party boat that definetly not my stile.
i took friends out on my boat togging a lot of times and as soon as they saw someone, pulling in a fish they wants you to go close and drop anchor, not me that why i am a fisfinder and gps freak, always messing with them to know how they work and to know what you see on the screen.
i even snag a bunker and put it down on a heavy weight just to see how it will looks on the screen,

when iam leaving my dock there are some sunken boats that we always drove over, sometimes i just keep going back ond fort over them when i am tuning my units just to see how the lie ect .

this coming season i will put these numbers to use because i am not pulling my boat an les the winter is realy bad, and the fish stop biting.

thanks againg for the numbers.

have a happy new year.
 

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As already mentioned by EC... once you decide, pay really good attention to the transducer and its location. You can buy the most advanced, sophisticated fish finder on the market, and it will only be as good as the transducer it is matched up with and the transducers installation and location.

That being said, the older Lowrance units (pre 2003) would probably be an excellent choice. Lowrance laid down the ground work to the very popular "digital " sonar imaging that is "all the rage" right now. Raymarine stepped it up and Furuno took off with it. Next month? Who knows? LOL!

All kidding aside, Lowrance dependability has taken a severe turn for the worse in the last several years. So has their attitude toward the consumer. The have a very high rate of failure right out of the box, with an alarming rate of short service failures and warranty issues. They do turn the units around quickly and honor their warranties. But lets face facts, when you are looking to maximize your time on the water, you don't need to shorten a trip or blow one off because your sonar or gps took an unexpected crap or suddenly can't find either the bottom or a satellite!

While their customer service is good at repairing & updating software and firm ware, they obvioously do not want to keep an inventory of repair parts on older units. They also discontinue models (even popular ones) at a less than desirable rate. They like to introduce newer models and that leaves lots of consumers who purchased $1200- $1500 units out of luck after a few short years. That is a practice that you wont find with Furuno, Raymarine, Garmin or even Eagle/Hummingbird.

Raymarine was the "in" unit to have when they introduced their HD Digital processor 5 years ago. It did revolutionize the way others looked at sonar technology. Their stand alone fish finders are excellent performers.
On a cost comparison basis they are little more expensive than the comparable Furuno units.
Two things to be wary about in their DSM series, is the need for a constant high voltage supply. If you are running high drain motors such as the Verados, and the larger HP outboards or twins, it is almost a sure bet that you will need some serious (costly) battery upgrade, isolation or even rewiring since the DSMs have a history of high shutdown incidents under restart or reduced voltage conditions. not healthy for any electronics.

The other issue, particularly if you are considering flush mounting, is their fogging issues. All units fog to some degree, but Raymarine seems to have a lot more than most, particular in the spring and fall when temperature changes are quick.
Raymarine has also taken a cavalier attitude with one of their more popular combo units, the A65, regarding the recent WAAS stallite issue. Apparently they want the consumer to "pay the freight" to fix the problem (buy a new antenna) even on units still under warranty. Not cool when you lay out 1500 big ones for a combo unit that is mediocre at best in the GPS functions.

If it were my choice to make on a new fish finder, hands down it would be either the Furno 620 0r 585. The only differences between the 2 is the 585 has 1KW output capability ( for really deep water) and a larger screen (always a plus). Screen wise it is better in direct sunlight than the Raymarine units and as far as showing the bottom, it is again the benchmark. It has a manual mode that actually works better than the Ray units and is really designed for the user who knows how to tune a sonar to suit the fishing mode (wreck, reef, deep water, on the troll, mid depth, locating thermoclines, etc).

Although I have a NAVNET on my boat, I like the new Furuno Digital Imaging so much that i will probably add the new DFF1 to replace the analog black box. It is backwards compatible to all the Navnet series and is 10- 15 minute swap out.

Match that Furuno 620 or 585 to one of the newer 1KW HP transducers by Airmar and you will be a really happy angler!




*Photo credits of the FURUNO 620 below go to bluewatermarine...





This post edited by Mad Mahi 07:07 AM 01/02/2008
 

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Later today I will be putting my Furuno 585 thats still in the box on the for sale board.I am selling my boat so I won't be installing this unit in the spring.Look for the posting,it will go for a good price.
paulie
 

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Furuno 585 or 582

I have the 582 with a through hull transducer (1Kw) I had the same set up on my General Marine and it was flawless.

When I moved down here and in bought my Silver Hawk I need a new F/F so I went with what worked for me the best, after much discussion with Mad Mahi. The only reason I didn't go for the 585 was becuase of mounting the unit in my E-Box, didn't have the room.:mad:

When I installed the 582 on the General I also mounted it on a Nav-Pod ($189) which gave me the ability to use a swievel base.

The new 585 has everything combined,swievel base, better resolution and very user friendly.

I have heard the same thing about Lowrance units not honoring there warranty or just giving people such a hard time they junk it and move on to another product.

Most of the off shore boats down here will use the 585 simply becuase of the dependabilty, clarity and being as I said user friendly plus the fact having a name like Furuno backing it up.

This post edited by baywatch 08:57 AM 01/02/2008
 

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Good luck Boloranks, and use the numbers to get yourself into the area. From there, do you own prospecting, because you never know what you can find by spending a few minutes driving around. As I stated, those numbers are just reference points, and with all the bottom within that area, you are bound to find more rock bottom then you can fish in a lifetime on and around 17 fathoms.

Those are some interesting comments on the Furuno 585, and as they all state, it is for the money a incredible fish and bottom finder.... A noticeable step up from the old 582 which it replaced.

Again your choices rest on whether you should choose such a high end machine, or as Mad Mahi pointed out, buying a combo GPS/Bottom machine. These days due to the advances in both the hardware and software of marine electronics, you can get both high quality charts along with the high quality resolution of the picture you see on the bottom, with ONE machine.

All the major marine electronic companies produce fine products. Some are slightly better, and it's from that point in which you have to decide on what you are comfortable in using.

EC NEWELL MAN<>
 

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Yep- my uncle has a higher end furuno all in one, I hate the **** thing.

It is convenient having just one machine...don't get me wrong, but the gps will only store #'s, with 3 places beyond the last decimal, which is a huge PITA if the #'s you have aren't in that format, (1000'ths, as opposed to 60 sec.).....Furuno guy gave me a math formula to use to convert the #'s but...should I really have to whip out a calculator to enter old #'s:rolleyes: Other than that it's a pretty good machine as far as a s ounder goes, but again,,,,the plotters screen is much slower than my cheapy Standard Horizon, and I mean muuuuch slower, which is also a huge PITA.
 

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Old School I Guess

Even with todays technology I still believe in 2 seperate units. 1 GPS and 1 F/F (bottom) finder and I still do use Loran for finding those small pieces and then use it as a waypoint on the GPS.

Sometimes the older ways are the best.;)
 

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thats right.....

baywatch wrote:
Even with todays technology I still believe in 2 seperate units. 1 GPS and 1 F/F (bottom) finder and I still do use Loran for finding those small pieces and then use it as a waypoint on the GPS.

Sometimes the older ways are the best.;)

There are some fisheries that I don't even turn the machines on for....;)
 

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I agree with Baywatch, unless your really crunched for space, seperate units are the way to go. Its not a bad idea to have two multi-functions in case one fails you have a full system backup, but two seperate units is the more reliable thing to do.

I have a GPS, LORAN (which I use) and as a backup a handheld GPS.
 
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