NorEast Fishing Forum banner
1 - 20 of 221 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,732 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

Lets use this thread as a source for all info and opinion as the Federal/State Registry/License program develops. Since this will be a long drawn out process, I ask to moderators to make this a sticky topic. This will have a huge affect on every SW angler in the NE and the rest of the county.

Here is the link to the site where the program and developments are posted from NMFS. http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/mrii

Below is a summary of what this is all about. The full text can be found on the web site.

DEVELOPMENT PLAN
NATIONAL SALTWATER ANGLER REGISTRY
AND STATE EXEMPTION PROGRAM
OCTOBER 9, 2007
BACKGROUND
The National Saltwater Angler Registry and State Exemption Program (?Registry
Program?) has been established by NOAA Fisheries Service in response to the review of
national saltwater angling data collection programs conducted by the National Research
Council (?NRC?) in 2005/6, and the provisions of the Magnuson-Stevens
Reauthorization Act, codified at Section 401(g) of the MSA.
Findings and recommendations of the NRC evaluation that are relevant to the Registry
Program are found in pages 62 to 67 of the NRC final report. Pertinent citations from the
report follow:
?Through its RDD sample, the MRFSS uses a frame of all working landline telephone
numbers in coastal counties. This frame suffers from overcoverage since not all
households contain anglers, undercoverage since some anglers do not live in coastal
counties or they live in coastal counties but do not have landline
telephones?Overcoverage leads to severe inefficiency in the RDD sampling effort.
Undercoverage in the coastal county frame may lead to serious bias since anglers from
noncoastal counties are likely to have different effort characteristics that those from
coastal counties.??
?Clearly, there is a need for a complete angler registry in all states; these should be
designed rigorously to minimize under- and overcoverage.??
?A national registry database built on existing state angler licenses and augmented with
new licenses would be an ideal frame for sampling marine anglers if it minimized
duplications through rigorous and nationally consistent registration standards, minimized
overcoverage with regular database updates, and minimized undercoverage by
disallowing exemptions. Such a national registry database would yield considerable
efficiency for sampling effort over the current RDD frame. There would be enormous
management benefits, cost and interview savings, and increased quality of the catch
estimates obtained.??
?Cooperation between the federal and state governments on a mandatory salt-water
angler registry (or license), with attention to eliminating exemptions in states with current
saltwater licensing and with encouragement to other states to implement such licenses as
quickly as possible, would lead to realization of those benefits.??
?It is critical that the licensing requirements eliminate exemptions and noncompliance by
segments of the fishing public. Significant efforts to enforce these registration
requirements will be necessary.?
Congress recognized the need to improve marine recreational fishing data as
recommended by the NRC, including the need for a national registry of saltwater anglers,
and included direction to the Secretary of Commerce to undertake a program to improve
recreational survey data in the provisions of the reauthorized MSA. MSA provisions
relevant to the Registry Program are as follows:
?401(g)(1) FEDERAL PROGRAM.---The Secretary shall establish and implement a
regionally based registry program of recreational fishermen in each of the 8 fishery
management regions. The program, which shall not require a fee before January 1, 2011,
shall provide for---
(A) the registration (including identification and contact information) of
individuals who engage in recreational fishing ?
(i) in the Exclusive Economic Zone;
(ii) for anadromous species; or
(iii) for Continental Shelf fishery resources beyond the Exclusive
Economic Zone;
and
(B) if appropriate, the registration (including the ownership, operator, and
identification of the vessel) of vessels used in such fishing
(2) STATE PROGRAMS.---The secretary shall exempt from registration under the
program recreational fishermen and charter fishing vessels licensed, permitted or
registered under the laws of a State if the Secretary determines that information from the
state program is suitable for the Secretary?s use or is used to assist in completing marine
recreational fisheries statistical surveys, or evaluating the effects of proposed
conservation and management measures for marine recreational fisheries.?

This post edited by Capt. Marc 02:30 PM 01/26/2008
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
74,095 Posts
My number one concern in this whole thing is that each state's license should be reciprocally recognized by every other state. Otherwise we are going to wind up with each angler being licensed in two or more states. This objective conforms with the statement that:
wrote:
A national registry database built on existing state angler licenses and augmented with
new licenses would be an ideal frame for sampling marine anglers if it minimized
duplications through rigorous and nationally consistent registration standards, minimized
overcoverage with regular database updates, and minimized undercoverage by
disallowing exemptions.

Take LI anglers as an example. Any LI angler could, potentially, be required to obtain a license in NY, CT, RI and NJ. This would obviously be duplicative and result in a less than accurate regional database. RI anglers would almost universally be licensed in RI, MA, and CT and many would also be licensed in NY.

Reciprocity should be required by the feds in approving any state's licensing system as meeting the requirments for exempting that states anglers from the federal program.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,732 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
MakoMike,

You hit it right on the head. This is what the biggest problem was with getting a SW license in NH. 18 miles of coast and in a day you can be fishing in 3 states. Nobody was ready to accept this unless there was total reciprocity. Thanks for making this a stickey. This one really needs to be watched by everyone. The process appears to be transparent and the people involved are placing the mins for every meeting on the site.

Marc

This post edited by Capt. Marc 02:59 PM 01/26/2008
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
SW registration AKA license

(A) the registration (including identification and contact information) of
individuals who engage in recreational fishing ?
(i) in the Exclusive Economic Zone;
(ii) for anadromous species; or
(iii) for Continental Shelf fishery resources beyond the Exclusive
Economic Zone;

So as I read this anyone who fishes in the marine environment will need to be federally registered and have contact information on file...SMACKS A BIT OF BIG BROTHER , FOLKS !!

So can I expect that in the near future I will have to be a registered angler, Name address, phone number, wife and kiddies registered as well. And all this goes into a giant data base, to serve what , I ask, WHAT Fisheries Management purpose??
This folks will effectively establish a trackable data base on each and everyone of us who wets a line, period. I don't know about you , but I work for the FEDS, and I don't want my boss having any more information on me or YOU, than is absolutely necessary.

Additionally, once registered, and I can tell you right now with full confidence in how my employer works, this registration will come with a registration fee, that will increase on a yearly basis to keep paying for additional employees to perpetuate the PROGRAM, and those who can not afford to register will not be able to legally fish, thereby becoming a law breaker. So in short order maybe the first year or sometime there after, when you and I are living on a fixed income and want to head down to the dock , with our walkers, to try and wrestle a snapper or two out of the creek, we will have to fork over a federal registration fee, or break the law, and be fined or arrested by the army of enforcement agents that will be needed to ensure each of us COMPLIES with the registration regulation. When you deal with the feds, they don't take kindly to failure to COMPLY, I can assure you that failure will carry a minimum fine fo $1000 per count, and my boss knows how to count, each line,paragraph, subparagraph,clause, etc will be considered a count if not complied with, so you are looking at several thousand dollars fine for failure to comply. O yes , they may offer you or grandpa a stipulated settlement but it will be at least $250.

I hate the thought of a salt water license at all as it is nothing more than another stupid tax and money grab. It is even more unpalatable and intolerable once coupled with a trackable registration system. The best alternative that I can see,if and only if a fedeal saltwater license is , god help us, required, would be something akin to the Federal Duck stamp, with a cost per year cap for the first 50 years at $5.00 per year per person, and useable anywhere in the United states, from Maine to Guam to fish in salt water or for salt water species in estuarian situations.

what do you think??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,732 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Mangohuntr1,

Exactly. All of a sudden contact info is going to be your Telehone number and perhaps your SS#. If your 12 and your parents say to never give out your phone number, no fishing for you? How secure will this data base be? Remember the trigger for this was so the MRFSS has a phone directory of anglers to call. Yes if you pay for this license, your paying to get phone calls in the night. If you refuse to give your tele number, will you get a license? Who ever heard of a Survey that charges and if you don't comply you get fined or lose your right to fish? The scientists say they need more data. I have no problem with a surveyer asking me what I caught at the dock and it is on a volunteer basis. I was a MRFSS surveyer for years. Lets not confuse this with anything more then it is, a better telephone survey for MRFSS. I say get rid of the telephone survey. At some point all anglers will have to ban together and fight this invasion of privacy. It is funny because the first thing I did when I surveyed fishermen was I read out the Privacy act. What a turn of events. The game plan is to get the states on board by the money carrot or worse. Either the funds go into the feds general fund or it can go with into the states coffers.

From the meeting mins.

"The Team believes that, for states, the avoidance of requiring their anglers to be registered by the federal government, and to pay a fee for registering beginning in 2011, is a powerful incentive for states to develop and make available complete saltwater angler registries. However, the Team believes other additional incentives should be identified and considered."

Incentives = means $$$ to the states and if they don't bend they need "additional incentives" which is scary.

The stakeholders:

"Members suggested stakeholder representation from license vendors (such as Bass Pro Shops or WalMart representatives involved in organizing the companies? participation in state license sales) be considered. It was also noted that this interest may be within the membership of ASA and/or NMMA, both of which have deferred to CCA in providing input to this program to date."

Oh super, another thing to buy in Walmart. Maybe they will contract out the license papers to a factory in China.

The only way to kill this is to start writing your elected officials who represent you. If you belong to angler groups, let them know or you will pull your support.

Marc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
Why

My number one concern in this whole thing is that each state's license should be reciprocally recognized by every other state. Otherwise we are going to wind up with each angler being licensed in two or more states. This objective conforms with the statement that:

Hunting Lic are not recognized and if you care to hunt in another state the Out of state Lic is much more expensive and in some cases limited ( no doe permit ect)

I do think that states the share a body of water might recognize the neighboring states Lic. But Thats body of water specific Like Ny and Nj on the deleware river recognize each others lic. on that body of water

Other than that if you wanna fish in a states waters you buy the Lic.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
74,095 Posts
The big difference between fresh and salt water is that the fresh water fish that are holed up in some lake somewhere, belong to the state where the lake is locted. The salt water fish that swim into any given state's waters are owned by everybody in the United States. Plus you can add to the fact that if licenses are required for multiple states it will degrade the one thing that is the obbject of all of this, to improve the MRFSS. The deer in NY state belong to NY state, the fluke off Montauk belong to everyone!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,160 Posts
guest wrote:
Just like you do with Fresh water

You Just beat me to that. I don't ever recall having any personal privacy problems because of my freshwater license. I have been fishing freshwater since I can remember and for the past 18 years have had an up to date license. Not once has my identity been stolen due to it or my name shown up on some telemarketers list because of it. I have never actually had to show anyone my license in all this time. NEVER. No DEC officers at any lakes, ponds or streams had ever asked to see it. Actually I rented a boat at Southhaven Park and they asked but just to see that I had one. But thats it. Why is a Saltwater license going to be different? I have no problem paying my nineteen bucks to know that I am on the right side. Maybe this will be good for fisherman. They could put this money toward conservation and enforcement. If I can help out with my measly $20 then I am all for it.

So you make it a national license. Register for your state and be able to have it accepted everywhere. I see no big deal in that either. Kind of like my CDL. Just like my freshwater license but the only place it gets taken out is at the airport and at the bar (if I am not a regular).

Mike you say the fish belong to everyone? So if I went into L.I. Sound on the CT side picked up an 18 inch Fluke and brought it back to NY then got caught at the dock with a short (NY is/was? 19.5 inches) I could just say I got in CT where the limit is 18 inches? Come on, get real.

Oh yeah. Hey mike? GO GIANTS

This post edited by frankiesurf 04:24 PM 01/27/2008
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Wrangell - St. Elias National Park and Preserve contains approximately 13 million acres of public land in south-central Alaska. When the park and preserve were established by the U.S. Congress in 1980, certain forms of hunting and trapping were authorized for each type of area.

The National Park Service and the State of Alaska cooperatively manage the wildlife resources of the Park and Preserve. An Alaska State hunting license is required for all hunters age 16 or older. Bag and possession limits vary by species and by area. Always check current hunting regulations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
MakoMike wrote:
The big difference between fresh and salt water is that the fresh water fish that are holed up in some lake somewhere, belong to the state where the lake is locted. The salt water fish that swim into any given state's waters are owned by everybody in the United States. Plus you can add to the fact that if licenses are required for multiple states it will degrade the one thing that is the obbject of all of this, to improve the MRFSS. The deer in NY state belong to NY state, the fluke off Montauk belong to everyone!

So because the fish move, it's an issue? Many fish move between states in larger rivers and lakes, such as the Mississippi @ the Great Lakes?

How would buying multiple licenses in states dramatical change how the registry works and what it's going to be used for? If you buy an out of state license and they call you how is that any different in calculating catch then calling someone in state?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,732 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hello,

Sure $20 or $30 may be no big deal for some. Remember a family of 5 on a private boat could be $150 and if your on a border state, possibly a lot more if you cross the border. So you have some friends that you would like to invite for a day on the boat, no license then you better not have a rod in the boat. I do not see any private boat license that covers all aboard being suggested. Your State boat registration is valid in any state. Your drivers license is valid in every state.

Lets not get off topic here. Keep the focus on the fact that the only reason is to get a database of names and phone numbers for a telephone survey. Is this a valid reason to burden every SW angler in the whole country?




This post edited by Capt. Marc 08:29 PM 01/27/2008
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
Bull CRAP

The deer along the Ny Nj , Ny Pa or any other 2 or 3 states that share a boarder. They do not belong to any state they would not know one from the next.

Same as NY " state" waters the Us Govt and the people of the US controll the areas outside of 3 miles the state controls within 3 miles

You wanna fish in a states waters buy the lic

you wanna fish Federal waters no problem so long as you have a lic from the state you leave from or put into or both

I keep hearing that the fish are owned by all the people of the US thats such crap. If The fish are all owned by all the people than so should be the game and if I want an elk burger there should and must be a commercial elk market so some one can harvest them so they are available here in NYC. IF not stop crying that fluke must be made available to the people of wyoming If I have no right to elk they have no right to fish .

Encase you forgot people and animals learn to survive on the food sources that are around them , thats natural.

Any one ever stop to think that the diminishing amt of fish is due to the fact that i nature not everyone was supposed to eat everything
In montanna they get trout and elk . In Ny we get fluke and Pigion or stary cat but no elk .
Maybe in nature not everyone is suppossed to have access to everything

excuse the rant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
Full boat coverage

Was left out on purpose as it would diminish the accuacy of the regestry.

Simple fact is that the registry is non negotiable the feds mandated it unless each state has its own viable registry / lic. that meets there requirments . Thats life
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
You would need a freshwater license if you trailered the boat and went to a different state, or you drove your boat to another state on a river.
Capt. Marc wrote:
Hello,

Is this a valid reason to burden every SW angler in the whole country?

It is if you want better data. Remember it was rec interests that brought MRFSS to get reviewed, and it was this review that suggested MRFSS was in need of serious improvement, and that this was one of the most important ways to do it.

We kinda asked for this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,528 Posts
TonySMJC wrote:

I keep hearing that the fish are owned by all the people of the US thats such crap. If The fish are all owned by all the people than so should be the game and if I want an elk burger there should and must be a commercial elk market so some one can harvest them so they are available here in NYC. IF not stop crying that fluke must be made available to the people of wyoming If I have no right to elk they have no right to fish .

Very well stated.
I hope you don?t mind if I use that the next time someone says the little old lady in Ohio has just as much right to eat the same fresh fish as we do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,732 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
"Participation in this survey is voluntary and there are no penalties for refusing to answer any question."

The above will have to be revised. Keep it voluntary, bare minimum fees (just to maintain the survey) no penalties and they can collect all the data they want.

PRIVACY ACT STATEMENT
Information collected in the Marine Recreational Fisheries Statistics Survey is authorized under the Fish and Wildlife Act of 1956, the Migratory Marine Fish Act of 1959, and the Fishery Conservation and Management Act of 1976. This information will be used in assessing the influence of fishing on any fish stock and in determining future recreational fishing needs.
All information collected will be combined with information provided by other recreational anglers and used only for statistical purposes. Any information which would permit identification of the individual will be held in strictest confidence and will be used only by persons engaged in and for the purpose of the survey.
Participation in this survey is voluntary and there are no penalties for refusing to answer any question. However, your cooperation in obtaining this much needed information is extremely important in order to insure the completeness and accuracy of the statistical results.

This post edited by Capt. Marc 11:18 PM 01/27/2008
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
Why minimum fees

Everthing takes $$

I know the govt. is wastefull and no one likes giving up $$

But that dosent matter . If they are wastfull than fight the waste not the fee .

Simple fact is once the fees are set, the burocratic Bull Crap that will be needed to get an incress will be out of controll.Mine as well make the fee what it needs to be , that way huge incresses will not be required because they will never get them. Or better yet set up a tax to fund it . If the saltwater fish belong to everyone in the country let the feds foot the bill. But what ever you do dont start off short changing the process cause thats just a waste

I use the MTA as an example

2.00 is simply not enough to run the system but its impossible to get a real or reasonable fare incress. So the system suffer
The TA is managed terribly and is wasteful but that doesnt really matter. Fact is end of the day the fee is too low for the services offered.

If were gonna have a licensee lets fund it so it can be usefull and then fight to make sure its managed properly .

Nothing is free in a democracy if you want free services gotta go to a socialist or communist country
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
74,095 Posts
guest wrote:
How would buying multiple licenses in states dramatical change how the registry works and what it's going to be used for? If you buy an out of state license and they call you how is that any different in calculating catch then calling someone in state?


From the post that started this thread:
quote:
?Clearly, there is a need for a complete angler registry in all states; these should be
designed rigorously to minimize under- and overcoverage.??
?A national registry database built on existing state angler licenses and augmented with
new licenses would be an ideal frame for sampling marine anglers if it minimized
duplications through rigorous and nationally consistent registration standards, minimized
overcoverage with regular database updates, and minimized undercoverage by
disallowing exemptions.

Dup[lication of names on several different states listing would be duplicative. In some states like NH and RI or any other state with a small coast line, anglers would be double or triple counted, which is going to lead to an overestimation of the recreational catch.
An NY guys would also suffer, I'll wager that less than 40% of NY anglers only fish in NY waters. The guys on the west end regularly fish in NJ water, the guys on the east end regularly fish Block Island, which is in RI and the guys on the north shore regularly fish in CT.

This post edited by MakoMike 09:04 AM 01/28/2008
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
MakoMike wrote:



Dup[lication of names on several different states listing would be duplicative. In some states like NH and RI or any other state with a small coast line, anglers would be double or triple counted, which is going to lead to an overestimation of the recreational catch.
An NY guys would also suffer, I'll wager that less than 40% of NY anglers only fish in NY waters. The guys on the west end regularly fish in NJ water, the guys on the east end regularly fish Block Island, which is in RI and the guys on the north shore regularly fish in CT.

No not if you list a person with a unique ID number in a national registry. By either SS# any way of IDing an individual, even if it can't be linked back to address.

it's probably not that much different from com licenses or dealer permits
 
1 - 20 of 221 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top