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And Flatts/Mike/whoever, please keep in mind that I'm only posting this here for informational purposes.

Nils
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Asbury Park Press

May 11, 2008

Network's actions not working for JCAA, allies

The Marine Fish Conservation Network's use of the Jersey Coast Anglers Association name, and the names of all of the JCAA member clubs, in opposing changes to the Magnuson-Stevens Act is promoting more ill will in the New Jersey fishing community.

The fluke fishery could be aided by changes in the law, but the Network is working actively to prevent this, and freely using JCAA's name as supportive of this position.

Thomas P. Fote, legislative chairman of the JCAA, defends the organization's association with MFCN with the argument that it is better to attempt to influence the MFCN at the table than to oppose them from outside.

Tony Bogan, president of the United Boatmen, and Jim Hutchinson Jr., executive editor of The Fisherman Magazine, disagree.

"Working with someone when your goals are similar and "allying' yourself with them and giving them use of your organization's name ? as JCAA and others have done ? are two different things," Bogan said.

"We have all "worked' with groups on occasion though we may mostly disagree with their positions," he added. "Allying yourself with MFCN or groups like them lends a credibility to the network that may not exist (since the aforementioned recreation groups are speaking out against the Network's actions at least to the network itself), and detracts from the "recreational' credibility as a result."

Hutchinson believes that if no recreational fishing organization representatives were at the MFCN "table," the Network would lose its claim to being the voice of anglers.

"That is, without fishing groups," he said, "the Network is just another radical environmental business organization partially funded by Pew, lobbying in support of marine protected areas, and represented purely by its founding members, like the Ocean Conservancy, a group which openly opposes the creation of artificial reefs for fishing and tourism.

"The Fisherman Magazine obviously cannot associate itself with organizations like these, and has asked JCAA to make the same stance," Hutchinson added.

Hutchinson, along with magazine advertising manager John DeBona and managing editor Karen E. Wall, met with Fote and the JCAA's board of directors Jan. 30 to discuss the problem, and the JCAA board stood firm on its position.

"Our participation in the Network has been discussed many times at JCAA board and general membership meetings, and members of the Marine Fish Conservation Network have been present for some of these discussions," Fote said.

"The general consensus of the JCAA membership maintains that there is still value in being represented in the Network," he added. "Fishing groups that do not belong to the Network cannot influence its decisions."

"MFCN has begun its full-court press on preventing any and all changes to the Magnuson-Stevens Act, which is the key to our survival," Bogan countered.

"Not just with fluke, but with all fisheries," he added. "This goes beyond fluke, it goes beyond 2008 ? this fight was never about 2008 in the first place ? and the Marine Fish Conservation Network knows it."

Wall emphasized the survival aspect of the matter, and the need for JCAA to recognize that for the recreational fishery to remain viable there must be unity in the angling community.

"Let's face it," she said. "We're getting hit from every side ? blackfish, winter flounders, fluke, weakfish, tilefish, tuna ? they'll be after us again on porgies and sea bass before long."

Fote said the JCAA is concerned about new directions that the Pew Foundation is moving in and the impacts that those decisions will have on the Network.

"The Network represents a diverse and influential group of interests and the JCAA will try to steer it to also represent the best interests of the angling community," he said.

Bogan sees it otherwise: "It is a failed attempt at "change' in my opinion."

The Magnuson-Stevens Act was passed by Congress in 2006 in part from pressure from the Network and use of the JCAA's name.

"While I am sure there were good intentions at the start, they have been lost in the chorus of conservation for conservation's sake that is sung by MFCN," Bogan said.

This post edited by NilsS 09:13 AM 05/12/2008
 

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Whatta Team

quote:

"MFCN has begun its full-court press on preventing any and all changes to the Magnuson-Stevens Act, which is the key to our survival," Bogan countered.

Nils & Tony,

You are embarassing yourselves. Again.

The only demonstrable full-court press that has been going on is the one put on by the SSFFF supporters - mostly in the NJ fish-press itself.

In the past month we've seen...

1) Jim Hutchinson JR. trash JCAA in The Fisherman magazine for not leaving MFCN. That's sad on many levels, but it brings conflict-of-interest to new lows when you consider that Hutchinson is a Board member of the RFA.

2) JCAA's printing their response in their newsletter to Hutchinson's attacks. Has Hutchinson had the professional courtesey to reprint it?

3) APP's John Geiser absolutely losing it on the American Sportfishing Association for, well, just being silent on the Pallone bill. Calling their non-action a "slap in the face".

4) APP's John Geiser essentially regurgitating (sp) Hutchinson's piece. I'm referring to the the article that started this thread.

Oh Man!

On the other hand, can you point to any significant press releases or news articles that are pro-MFCN on MSA in the past 2 or 3 weeks?

Or is Google Alerts broken these days?

It probably wasn't worth reponding to this, as no one else did and they were probably scratching their heads too. But someone has to keep things straight - whether they like it or not.

Have you (Tony) ever stopped to realize just how much SSFFF is actually tearing the recreational community apart? Along with the help from The Fisherman and The Asbury Park Press.

And mind you this is all on top of SSFFF supporters calling on boycotts for tackle shops that don't post a SSFFF logo. Or demanding that at least 2 journalists be fired for pointing out a few flaws with your logic.

What a disgrace! Seriously.

Unreal,
Mike F.

This post edited by flatts1b 09:14 PM 05/14/2008
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey Mike/Flatts -

I can't express in mere words how weird I find it that you are so fixated on what I post at several web places. Is there such a thing as cyber-stalking? And you're still at work trying to convince folks that I've written stuff I never wrote. Perhaps verging from weird to pathologic?

But I guess we're all going to have to accept that, and I'd rather have you do it on this board and FishFolk and etc. than have you skulking around behind the palmettos in my back yard sporting night vision specs (and so, I'd imagine, would my neighbors.)

But, to the point of your post - other than, of course, to demonstrate to the world that you still care - the number following the subject of the post shows that 106 people viewed the column (or fewer than 106 people, assuming some did it more than once.) That's indicative of a certain amount of interest, is it not? And as far as your "who's on first" routine with all those letters and names and stuff, while it obviously fascinates you (another fixation?), it means not much of anything to me. Sort of like LSMFT, SPQR or LCD.

While it seems to aggravate you no end, what John Geiser writes is pretty important to a lot of the recreational guys in New Jersey, just like what Tony Bogan has to say is. Knowing that, I assumed that it might be important to some of the recreational guys here. Over a hundred viewings of the column bears that out, doesn't it?
 

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Care to add any substance, Nils??

quote:

Nils wrote:

Well...nothing really????

I'll ask again Nils (or anyone else)...

Can you point to any significant press releases or news articles that are pro-MFCN on MSA in the past 2 or 3 weeks?

This was a basic claim made by CaptTB (that you posted) that it was MFCN that was launching some sort of "full-court press". It should be pretty straightforward to validate if it was true - especially for you. But it isn't. In fact, it is the opposite.

- Mike F.
 

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Mike,
I have "Google alerts" for a variety of phrases so I can keep up with any news on this and a few other subjects. The only articles are written by John Geiser.

I visited the website of every enviro group I can think of. No website has any mention of the Pallone bill. The most likely reason for this is that the enviros knew this bill was DOA and are not even wating thier time with it.

There is no full-court press. I think Tony just made it up in a pathettic attepmt to motivate people to rally to his selfish and shortsighted cause.
 

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MichaelJD wrote:
Mike,
I have "Google alerts" for a variety of phrases so I can keep up with any news on this and a few other subjects. The only articles are written by John Geiser.

I visited the website of every enviro group I can think of. No website has any mention of the Pallone bill. The most likely reason for this is that the enviros knew this bill was DOA and are not even wating thier time with it.

There is no full-court press. I think Tony just made it up in a pathettic attepmt to motivate people to rally to his selfish and shortsighted cause.

Mr. Doebley, please show me where I said anything about press releases? Where did I talk about news articles?

No where of course, but don't let that stop your BS on here and the APP website. Of course, as I pointed out on the APP website comments section, apparently your "extensive research" did not include MFCN itself, which on my ONLY search immediately showed their "Taking Stock" release supporting no changes to MSA and maintaining the ten years (clearly a direct opposition to the Pallone Bill or the Jones bill or any bill on planet earth that would change the ten years)

However, believe it or not making press releases (which I never mentioned in any way, shape or form when talking about MFCN or anyone else, a convenient fact your ignore) is not the nonly way, nor is it necessarily the most effective way, to STOP LEGISLATION FROM GAINING CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT.

Keep on keeping on though, your posts are amusing if nothing else:rolleyes:
 

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quote:

CaptTB wrote:

apparently your "extensive research" did not include MFCN itself, which on my ONLY search immediately showed their "Taking Stock" release supporting no changes to MSA and maintaining the ten years (clearly a direct opposition to the Pallone Bill or the Jones bill or any bill on planet earth that would change the ten years)

Tony, the "Taking Stock" report was published in December 2007.

Might you know of anything more recent that might substantiate your claim of...

quote:
"MFCN has begun its full-court press on preventing any and all changes to the Magnuson-Stevens Act, which is the key to our survival," Bogan countered.
 

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NilsS wrote:
Hey Mike/Flatts -

I can't express in mere words how weird I find it that you are so fixated on what I post at several web places. Is there such a thing as cyber-stalking? And you're still at work trying to convince folks that I've written stuff I never wrote. Perhaps verging from weird to pathologic?

But I guess we're all going to have to accept that, and I'd rather have you do it on this board and FishFolk and etc. than have you skulking around behind the palmettos in my back yard sporting night vision specs (and so, I'd imagine, would my neighbors.)

Nils, that is just too funny! I have to say over the years I have really enjoyed your sense of humor, even though some obviously don't get it sometimes.

Capt.TB
 

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CaptTB wrote:
MichaelJD wrote:
Mike,
I have "Google alerts" for a variety of phrases so I can keep up with any news on this and a few other subjects. The only articles are written by John Geiser.

I visited the website of every enviro group I can think of. No website has any mention of the Pallone bill. The most likely reason for this is that the enviros knew this bill was DOA and are not even wating thier time with it.

There is no full-court press. I think Tony just made it up in a pathettic attepmt to motivate people to rally to his selfish and shortsighted cause.

Mr. Doebley, please show me where I said anything about press releases? Where did I talk about news articles?

No where of course, but don't let that stop your BS on here and the APP website. Of course, as I pointed out on the APP website comments section, apparently your "extensive research" did not include MFCN itself, which on my ONLY search immediately showed their "Taking Stock" release supporting no changes to MSA and maintaining the ten years (clearly a direct opposition to the Pallone Bill or the Jones bill or any bill on planet earth that would change the ten years)

However, believe it or not making press releases (which I never mentioned in any way, shape or form when talking about MFCN or anyone else, a convenient fact your ignore) is not the nonly way, nor is it necessarily the most effective way, to STOP LEGISLATION FROM GAINING CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT.

Keep on keeping on though, your posts are amusing if nothing else:rolleyes:


I love the way you define the goals or statements and then use it to attack people. Quaint.

Anywho...stay with me here Tony...this might get a little complicated for you.....

Yes, you can interpret the MFCN report as opposing changes to MSA. But it is not in any wya shape or form a statemtn of opposition to the Pallone bill. Which, by the way, I believe was not even introduced until 2008. So please share with all of us how a report published in 2007 was a statement of opposition to the Pallone bill?

Now, press releases? What are you talking about? Certainly press releases, articles by sympathetic journalists, 'action alerts', emails, conferences, petitions, etc, etc would all be part of a 'Full-Court press'. I cannot find a single enviro group doing any of that.

So, please give us details about this 'Full-Court press'?

And I will remind you again in case you are still trying to delude yourself.....
The Pallone bill has zero chance of passing. It will not become law.
And I will gladly keep reminding you of that for years to come.
 

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MichaelJD wrote:
So, please give us details about this 'Full-Court press'?

Mike,

As you are well aware (though your plea of ignorance is not a radical departure from the reality), the "full court press" is being undertaken by the anti-fishing groups at the back-room legislative level. Your assertions are disingenuous at best...you know as well as anyone that these groups do not lobby at the grassroots level...their persuasiveness is attributable only to their economic clout in the form of huge PAC donations, and not to any great clamour of public opinion.

BTW...was your sudden departure from RFA so painful as to pit you against the general angling community? It's too bad you would allow personal matters such as those to pollute your ideology...but, then again, maybe you never had an ideology to begin with.
 

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quote:

MichaelJD wrote:

The Pallone bill has zero chance of passing. It will not become law.
And I will gladly keep reminding you of that for years to come.

And let's face it, MichaelJD. For all those years, the same folks will make out who always do in such cases - the lawyers and the lobbyists. And for some reason, those same ineffective names keep popping up. Don't they? (you don't have to answer that - it is both rhetorical and demonstrable)

quote:
Phil Curcio wrote:

BTW...was your sudden departure from RFA so painful as to pit you against the general angling community? It's too bad you would allow personal matters such as those to pollute your ideology


Phil,

While I don't speak for MichaelJD on this, for me personally, it is quite liberating to be able to look at things objectively and form informed positions when I am not in a position of representing anyone.

I suggest that you try it yourself sometime, if you ever find the means. :rolleyes:

- Mike F

This post edited by flatts1b 10:55 PM 05/15/2008
 
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