[baywatch]

I guess by now everyone has heard about the missing crew from the Hudson Tournemnt. Ther are several threads in the fishing report section but this seems to be the place for that sad subject.

May they RIP and God bless there families.

From the F/R post this missing boat should of not been out there. I think the H/A mamagers should be held liable for going on with the tournement. What difference is one day going to make or where they in to much of a hurry to count there $$$$. I jsut read an article in Newsday about how they do not make money on this. It makes me sick to read things like this.

From my understanding a lot of Captains requested for a postpoment for a day. I guess the men in charge did not want there fathers day ruined. How about the men who where lost and there families. They will always remember Fathers day as a day of sorrow.

I hope the winner of the Tournement has the decentcy to donate some money to the families to help them out in there time of need and grief. Or if not the winner then the H/A make a donation but then again they might be needing that money for legal fees.

Bill M

 

[seaslug44]

PLEASE STOP POINTING FINGERS

Baywatch,

I agree that this is a very terrible tragedy. But until we know exactly what happened I do not think it is fair to point fingers and lay blame. If you start, where will it end? For instance, if you are going to blame HA, then are you going to blame the Coast Guard too? They gave the tournament the go too! As a matter of fact, they were in the inlet in a 23 foot launch waving to the boats as they left the inlet.

Are you going to blame New York State and the Federal government too for not writing legislation that specifically governs these tournaments and lists the exact protocol they should follow? What about Wellcraft, the manufacturer of the craft? Should the families sue that company too because the boat did not come with specific warning labels stating not to operate it in seas over five feet in height? What about the boat dealer who sold them the boat? Should he be held liable too for not instructing the owner to avoid the ocean under certain conditions?

Give me a break. I was out there in that ocean. Although it may have been rough in some areas for some boats, during the time slot in which we left it was not half as bad as everyone described. There were dozens of other boats, many 25 feet in length and some even SMALLER who were running along side us and did not need to turn back. Pointing fingers won't bring back our lost friends. Either will making assumptions. Let's concetrate just on praying for their safe return.

 

[LkyLindy]

Rest in Peace

Doc-

You're right about pointing fingers-Everyone is ducking for cover-However ,I must say, a 25footer with two 150's in 7 foot waves sounds scary to me

 

[MIKE TUNA]

DoctorFish , You are 1 of the very very few who said it wasn't that bad . The bottom line is sunday looked better so why the **** subject 300 boats to that kind of sea condition . 99% of the boats big and small felt they were bad seas . What is the reason for the posponment date anyway . Maybe you honestly feel those seas were not bad , maybe you feel you could handle those sea conditions with no problem at all . But thats you . H/A and the Coastguard should have felt there were dangers involved with those sea conditions and with 300 boats and SUNDAY OPEN why take that chance ? Thats my question .

 

[nightwing34]

Unless there's info i've missed (there've been so many posts/discussions about this today), we don't even know for sure what happened. There is an outside chance that something completely unrelated to the sea conditions caused this loss. I realize that's a more than just a slight longshot. But I try to be an optimist, and while it may be too much to hope that these 4 souls are still with us, it would be nice to find out that greed & irresponsibility all around didn't have the hand in this that they appear to have. Because if my longshot doesn't come through, then no matter who ultimately has the blame laid on them, the causes are the same.

Rest in peace, fishermen. You'll be in our prayers.

 

[Scalawag]

I'm not sure weather to point fingers or not but....

Go to AOL's local news page " metro" I think it is theres a quote from one of the Hudson Angler dudes where he quoted that the seas were " very Fishable"
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Calmwater]

It is a terrible tragedy but, in the end, the captain of the vessel is responsible for the ship and the people aboard. We should never lose sight of how dangerous a place the water can be and how quickly your fortunes can change. Hopefully they will turn up still.

 

[baywatch]

Pointing fingers

Dear Doctor,
You make it sound like I am making it H/A fault. Lets do some math here. 300 anglers at 325 a boat= $97500. Thats a lot of coin. How much was given out in prizes? And you are trying to say money had nothing to do with it. I hope you read the other post after yours. There is more then enough blame to go around. And as far as your comment about the boat salesman you are probably right, they will tell you anything to get you sign a deal.
Every post I have read states almost the same thing about the conditions so maybe the other guys in the 23 and 25 will pay a little more attention to what conditions are and what there vessel is able to go through.
Maybe there should be some sort of regulations and rules governing tournemants. With the amount of recreational vessels that are out on the water today there has to be some sort of guidance.
Me, myself I don't fish on the weekends because of amount of boats out there. Add the excitment of a big tourney and people forget the basics.
I feel terrible for the families of these men but unfortunatly today the only way we learn things is through tradgedy.

Bill M

 

[seaslug44]

Baywatch,

The only reason why I made it sound like you were blaming HA was because that's exactly what you wrote.

FROM YOUR ORIGINAL POST YOU STATED: "I think the H/A mamagers should be held liable for going on with the tournement".

As far as the financial incentive, I don't know the exact accounting but I do know that they need at least 200 boats to be able to cover just the prize money. 90% of the entries are prepaid at $300 a boat. There were 260 boats entered, not 300.

In addition to the prize money, the club buys two cans of chum for each boat. Then there are expenses such as the unlimited beer, soda and barbeque for the hundreds anglers and their families at the captain's meeting. They also have boat slip rentals to cover at several marinas. Other expenses probably include rentals of the porta-potties and tents, as well as advertising costs. I'm sure there are many other expenses associated with this event.

In addition to the food bank donations the club makes every year from the tournament, they also advertised that this year's tournament was dedicated to a September 11th victim's family. One of the HA members had a son who was a police officer or a fire fighter who was killed at the WTC. There was mention of a cash donation associated with the 9/11 tragedy (I don't have the exact details).

If you've ever been a member of a fishing club then you know it's just like the PTA, the Knights of Columbus, or any other club; members can't just "pocket" money. Like every other organization, they have elected officials that include a bonded treasurer. Nobody has the opportunity for personal financial gain other than the vendors in the tents and the the tournament winners.

 

[616787]

Hi guys;

I just read the posts here, and it's a pretty powerful subject - peoples lives. I'd like to make a couple of points.

First off, I've never been in one of these tournaments, but I would have to imagine that part of the allure is the danger involved - when you go out to sea, there is an element of risk.......personally, I would not take my boat out that far, even though it is like totally seaworthy. All summer long, you hear these terrible stories of something going awry. I just want to go out and have fun, with no worries about what might happen - so I stay in the bay.

As far as responsibility for this tragic incident, the law will eventually answer that - but, looking from the outside in, there seems to be only two likely "defendants" here - the Coast Guard, and the Event Sponsor. The Coast Guard can recommend you not go out in rough seas - but can they STOP you from going if your boat is seaworthy? If they cannot stop you, then they cannot be responsible for your mistake, I would have to assume.

The Event Sponsor has the option to make the call to postpone a tournament, if there is a danger to it's participants. But, in this case, has it been determined that the rough conditions were directly responsible for this incident? Where do you draw the line on rough conditions? Will there be a new directive, now that this unfortunate incident occurred, such as a specified limit on wave height and wind speed for a "go or no-go"?

 

[topgun228]

Here's my $0.02.

I am EXTREMELY sympathetic toward the situation but people must control and be responsible for their own destiny.

(1) If all of the boaters approach the sponsor together in UNITY, couldn't they FORCE the event to Sunday? They are the "customer". Maybe there should be a vote by participants in future tournments. Don't know what levels of warning are available by the coast guard. It maybe one thing if you are in the midst of a hurricane, is an advisory totally different?

(2)What does it say about the people who say its DANGEROUS and still drag their butts out there for a chance to win the Prize. People have to get their priorities straight. They must make up their own minds and decide whether the risks are worth it! They must know their own capabilities and the capabilities of their crafts.

(3) So if the event is NOT rescheduled and you deem it DANGEROUS, wouldn't it be more prudent to walk away? I've seen people do it with baseball games in the rain, outdoor concerts etc.

 

[seaslug44]

Topgun,

You are right about the "Unity" thing. However, the truth is, despite what you read, that there were MORE BOATS AND ANGLERS who WANTED to fish Saturday morning than there were those who did not.

By 5:30, more than HALF of the boats already started towards the inlet with HOPES that the tournament was a go, even before the official word was out. There were even several clowns on the radio that morning PRETENDING to be HA officials and calling out things like "THE TOURNAMENT IS A GO! THE TOURNAMENT IS A GO!".

-Talk about PEER PRESSURE!!!!

To be honest with you, the hype and the rush of competition does get the best of you. I was one of hundreds of angler who knew in the back of my head that if the tournament was postponed until Sunday, I would not be able to fish because I wanted to spend father's day with my kids.

Given the choice of getting the crap beat out of us for part of the day and still fishing Saturday as opposed to not fishing at all on Sunday, our emotions got the best of us and we did indeed trade SAFETY for EXCITEMENT.

Would I or anyone on our boat had sailed if it were not a tournament??? -NO WAY!!!! But in addition to it being father's day on Sunday, the forecast wasn't much better. It was calling for similiar seas with severe Thunderstorms in the afternoon. It wasn't until later in the day on Saturday that the forecast for Sunday was downgraded (but the severe t-storms still came through our area and they even caused a twister in CT).

On the docks and at the tournament headquarters before the tournament I did not witness a single participant campaigning to delay the tournament to Sunday. You brought up a VERY GOOD point and the answer is, the majority vote would have been to make the tournament a GO on SATURDAY.

 

[Hipshot]

MISSING ANGLERS

GOD BLESS THOSE WHO MAY HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES!

Whether Hudson Anglers did the right thing or not is really secondary. I had planned a shark trip for that Saturday, but by thursday night I felt things, according to predictions were hopeless! I guess I made the right decision. It appears a few Captains, for whatever reason made the wrong decision! It is ultimately the Captains decision. Don't blame McDonalds because you spill hot coffee in your lap!. Don't get me wrong, I FEEL FOR THESE PEOPLE! lETS NOT PASS THE BUCK, IF A TOURNAMENT WAS NOT GOING ON, WOULD THESE PEOPLE ELECT TO GO OFFSHORE FISHING? I would think not! Ihope for these people, yet I also hope all of have learned a very valuable lession!

 

[baywatch]

membership

Dear Doc,
I have read your post on this board and the offshore report which has 8 pages. No I do not belong to a fishing club nor have I fished any tornements. I am still a recreational guy going my bay and small offshore trips. Once you put a BOUNTY on the biggest it brings the worst out in people, it almost like putting the cart before the horse. The reason for me not doing the above is I do not like POLITICS and joining ANY organzation eventually gets politcal. You have made some valid points but on the flip side you sound like you are a member of the FHA? If you are a member maybe in your mind you are sticking up for them.
I have spoke with a few people that fished the tourney and they all said it should of been put off till the next day. Just because I don't fish the tourney doesn't mean I don't have friends who did, as a matter of fact my neighbor fished it last year twice, first and last.

Bill

 

[topgun228]

Just A Commentary...

Heard conditions were tough in Montauk also. Many of the participants opted not to bow out due to the Prizes, inclusive of the various Calcuttas. People have said that the money spent on the Calcuttas can exceed $10,000 per boat and that the prizes could be HUGE.

These kind of situations can easily get the best of you. Hard decision if you were the captain hired by an owner, it would be difficult to bite the hand that feeds you and say that you will not go out. Would hate to be the captain in THAT position.

However, if nothing bad happened, everyone would have just stated that seas were rough but ok...glad that we didn't cancel the event.

But it is hard to rationalize the reverse....seas were rough...normally wouldn't have gone out but went for the prizes....some people got killed.

People should consider that this may be the speach given to your child if you were killed, and on Father's Day weekend no less. Seems like the child will have a tough time in the future on that Day. (Those guys probably didn't think that this would have happened to them either.)

If people would not have normally gone out if it wasn't for the tournment, then it seems like we have to adjust our priorities. Maybe some sort of refund is necessary if a majority vote against going out. May not have made a difference in this case if "everyone" was ready to go out.

Can't live life as a "chicken" but have to use some common sense.

Just remember the guys that had to be rescued from Breezy Point! Lucky someone was there to save them...quite sure none of them had a life jacket and the water did look pretty rough and that was only on a JETTY.

Again, just my $0.02.