[SurfaceStrike]

Did you guys see that write up in Newsday today on the LIPA windmill project? They want to put up 35-50 windmills 3 miles off shore from Jones to Robert Moses. My first impression is that I do not want to see it from the beach. They say it will be outside the 3 mile NYS limit. I think the horizon on a clear day is 4 miles. Some commercial fisherman are against it. What do you think?

 

[Hunt n' Fish]

Um, yea. I heard something about it.

Windmills

 

[SurfaceStrike]

Sorry Doughboy

I missed that thread. The new topics are coming fast and furious for this time of year.

 

[greggie195]

Stupid LIPA

Its not a bad idea but of course since its LIPA its being done wrong. The windmills should be further out (the only reason why they went out 3 miles it to avoid NYS)and there needs to be more windmills, this new power will only account for 1.6% of the energy that they generate, big deal! And who's going to pay for this 100million dollar+ system? Us...I hate LIPA and I hate that fat guy that represents them. Bunch of ingrates, they get me so angry.

 

[paulh]

This stuff has been used for years, ever drive into palm springs / palm desert CA from the north ? pretty ugly stuff if you ask me.

It's clean, but the bang for the buck isn't that great. If they must build this off the south shore why choose one of the only natural structures we have as a site ? Put it out on open bottom somewhere. Also, cholera lies in the shipping lanes (or between, depending on where you look), we have'nt been able to prevent the ambrose tower from being hit, these things are sitting ducks. Move it further east, away from the confluence of the new york harbor shipping lanes.

Another thing, those cables have to come to shore somewhere. Seaford is up in arms about the cable they want to bring in from NJ. It would land in Cedar creek sewage treatment plant / park. Nobody wants it, plus they will have to lay cable in the bay. Not to mention the conversion plant that will be built where the cables touch land. This is another aspect of these projects that often goes unnoticed.

The real deal is the use of hydrogen and aluminum fuel cells, which are 100 % clean, and can generate electric on site. Verizon has (or is about to)powere their Garden City phone switch center using a hydrogen fuel cell for primary power. These switching centers need a lot of juice. They are telling LIPA to go scratch ! The benefit of clean energy genenation on site is that you don't need to transmit the power anywhere, so you don't need ugly, dangerous cables strung all over the place.

Windmills and solar are temporary measures. If we must build, let's use some common sense (read - Don't put them near me or my fishing grounds).

 

[baywatch]

Mr Kessel

I have seen this guy around and he seems like a big leech. I can't stomach him.

I am a retired union steamfitter and when we had rallys for new construction projects he always had his face there. Typical politicain, opens his mouth and talks with nothing coming out.

With the shortage of power on LI and the building of some new co-gens (power plants) he has to do something to keep the tree huggers in place.

It is the same old story of everyone wanting the power but do not want the plant in there backyard.

These P/P are the meat and bones of being a Steamfitter. The piping in these places adds a tremondous amount of work for the men.

Today with all the new technology and EPA Guidlines these plants are far more efficient that the older plants we have now.

If you ever drive down the Meadowbrook PKWY you will see the garbage burner by American Refuel. Not only is that a garbage burner but it is also know as small power plant because it sells back powewr to LIPA. These type of plants are called totall energy plants because they make there own power to run the place and sell the leftover power to the local electric company. The old Grumman site produces its own power also and that it why it is so desirable for small company to operate on its grounds.

These Windmills are nothing but window dressing. HMM I wonder who will get the contact to build them and the GARRUNTEED CONTRACT of 20 years.

Wonder what the maintence bill will be for those?

Bill

 

[SurfaceStrike]

Dumps

With all the garbage dumps all over the island. I wonder why they don't put the wind mills there?

 

[strip]

Kessel

Glad to see I'm not alone in my disdain for that guy......I'd like to shove his windmill up his...

 

[620427]

why are you guys so against the windmills ??

 

[baywatch]

Not the windmills

It is not just the wind mills. It is Kessel.

As stated the windmills would be OK if they where really going to produce.
In the Newsday the article ays it would help about 100,000 homes. That is not even a dent in what we need.

It is the politics behind it. Constructuction and maintence for that amount of electricity is not worth it.

I think it is more window dressing then anything else jusr to keep the tree huggers quiet.

The Power or lack of it has been known for many years. My Grandfather and my father both worked on some of these power houses we still have in use now. They just don't cut it anymore. I myself worked at Shoreman on the maintenece and the decommisioning of it. This how long the problem has been going on.

Now it is time to pay the peddler. If my memerory serves me right when LILCO was dispanded and LIPA took it over Kessel was at the time in chrge of the newly formed LIPA. Once it became official Our GOV Pataki was going to appoint a new chairmen instead of Kessel.
There was an uproar from the Kessel staff and 2 weeks later he was named by the Gov.
Maybe the Gov should re -examine his appointment now. The problem was there when he first got in and it is still there. AND NOTHING IS BEING DONE !!!!

Our rates are still sky high because we have to buy it from other sources, ie the cable across the sound, and now windmills.

There a 2 new plants that are trying to go now, 1 of which is in Kings Park.

I really do not have an answere but if we don't start doing something soon we will be in big trouble.

DUMP KESSEL!!!

 

[bhm25]

it "blows" for electric

inshore i say f**k that but offshore i bet they would provide excellent fishing opportunities. they are planning th the same off cape cod and the locals are pretty pissed off from what i hear

 

[624272]

lipa windmills

i can see it now catacasenos/shoram kessel/ windmills this is just another giant tax hike for us long islanders due to poor business practices. when lipa took over the rates were to go down yesthey did for about a year now instead of rate hikes which have to be approved by the psc we now get the surcharge for fuelcosts no need to get an ok by the psc for these i know that my fuel costs have risen to so why do we have to pay for the higher cost of fuel for them. now the wind power should cost us a fortune in un explainable costs lets see like the damages due to bluefin tuna running into them or being struck by lightening

 

[MakoMatt]

Guys, FWIW, I don’t think they want to build these things to appease the environmental whackos or anyone else. Wind power has proven to be a viable alternative to some of the more traditional power generating plants, i.e., coal, oil, & nuclear. At the end of the day I’m sure it comes down to $$’s. This is a long-range project, and believe it or not, even the wind is more predictable then the price of imported Saudi crude.

MakoMatt

 

[cwjohnson]

mako mat
you forgot one , natural gas turbines, all are generators can run on either gas or oil,
the cable that was laid acrross the sound was put on hold, due to the fact that they said it was not buried deep enought at certain locations, let them fix that line before moving to another project, or is this just a smoke screen.look at the past and how the tax payers got screwed on the shoream deal. i for one do not want these windmills out there, and as far as kessler goes i have no use for him either, hes just a puppet on a string.

 

[baywatch]

Alternative

Hey M/M... You are right to a point. As stated earlier. Those wind,illd will not solve the problem we have with power. The 100 k mark for homes probably just scratches the surface. What about all the commercial building that is going on.

The bottom line is that it has been swept under the rug for the last decade and it is coming back top bite us in the butt.
Once there are Polly's involved it makes me wonder how many deals are made behind closed doors and what contractors, maintence, and any other group who will benifit from this.

These W/M migh even be better for fishing which will provide some structure if you are allowed near them.

Time will tell.

Bill

 

[baywatch]

Shoream

Lilco= private company providing public service.

This is law. Private co. provides P/S will be guareentied and profit on any project.

Fact. Lilco built shoream. when it was decieded to push the output of the plant up construction cost went through the roof. Lilco needed $$$$. Banks came to the rescue providing the cash @ rates the wher almost 18-21%. Lilco didn;t care cause the cost was passed onto the taxpayer as they where in for the profit on the construcion also.

Bottom line Lilco screwed us royally and the PollY's let em do it.

What did there charimen walk out with in his pocket? How many Millions?

Bill

 

[Capt. Marc]

Hi

If this ever goes thru. There better not be an exclusive zoan around these things where boaters aren't allowed. There better be nice tie offs for fishermen to fish the structure if they want to make us happy.

A good blow like a hurricane or 100yr storm and I bet they will make nice structure.

Capt. Marc

 

[620427]

from what i understand of the project they are looking for a private company to own and operate the facility.
they will sign a prepurchase agreement with the company for 8 cents per kwh.
the owner is responsible for all maintainence costs.
lipa is just buying the engergy.

their only costs are around $55 million for the cost of the cable from the substation to the windmills.

the site was chosen because of its close proximity to 3 sub stations in that area and public beach access along the shoreline.
the futher offshore they place them the more expensive it becomes to run the power cable and build the windmills in deeper water.

i do agree this is a drop in the bucket for the power needs of long island, but you have to start somewhere.
if successful after a few years,
larger wind farms would be built.

in europe there is a 10+ year history for these windmills.
they are in much more hostile enviornments than the south shore of long island.
i have read estimates of wind providing 40% of europes electrical needs in 10 years.

as for cost, it is 30-40% more expensive to produce electicity with onwater windfarms than land based ones.

enviormentally it is far better than other energy sources currently used.

 

[SurfaceStrike]

The area was chosen....

Megaloden,

Lets not fool ourselves. This area was chosen because the beaches they face are state parks. Do you think in our life time the people from Westhampton to Montauk would allow their view of the Atlantic to be obstructed by Windmills?

 

[620427]

i stated the same

"the site was chosen because of its close proximity to 3 sub stations in that area and public beach access along the shoreline.
the futher offshore they place them the more expensive it becomes to run the power cable and build the windmills in deeper water."

the location of the substations seem to be a primary concern, as this will determine the length of the power line needed and how much private property it must cross.

i agree futher east you go, the more oppostion you would have from the land owners.

since this will be located off a public beach where there are no year round residents, and out of sight during most conditions, i see it as a resonable option.

ofcourse many will have objections to it, mainly from a selfish point of view.

is it such a terrible thing to have some windmills in the water a few miles off the beach ?
personally i say no,
if you wanted to put some oil drilling platforms out there, then i would have a big problem.

how does it effect us fisherman ?

if the allow us to fish around the structures it will help us.
if they make it a secure zone and do not allow fishing,
i do not think we lose that much,
we can voice our complaints and probably get them to fund some new reef sites to replace the "bottom we lost" to the wind farm.
a better situation for the angler then getting to fish the windmills.

also consider this,
if they do not allow fishing in the windmill farm, then in essence they are creating a mini marine reserve in the area.
this will benefit the angler as well,
as the fish stocks in that area will flourish unmolested and the overflow of fish from the area will provide plenty of quality fish for the angler.

in florida in certain areas closed due to security reasons, the exact some situation has occured, and severel world record fish have been taken just outside the closed area.

so if we play our cards right we can end up with a couple new artificial reefs and "marine reserve" which will help to replenish the stocks in the area and offer good fishing opportunities along its perimeter.

is all this so terrible ?