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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello Alberto.

What is your position on Keyspan's proposed wind farm? If you plot the area where the proposed construction will be built, it's right smack on top of the Cholera Banks. I wonder if the entire area will become off limits to boaters within a certain mile radius.

The one they are trying to build up in Cape Cod is being protested by the locals. Here is a recent article about that one;

Atlantic Wind Farm Hits Stormy Weather
Steve Young
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
27 Apr 2002

Wind power is the fastest growing alternative energy source in the world today. In the United States, the pace of wind power development was recently given a boost when the U.S. Congress renewed a tax incentive for companies to invest in wind energy. One of the beneficiaries could be a proposed project off the Atlantic coast of Cape Cod, in the northeastern state of Massachusetts . If built, it would be the nation's first off-shore wind farm. But the project faces fierce opposition from local residents.

Glance at a map of the New England coast and it's clear why the Cape Wind project appears so promising to its supporters. Cape Cod juts dramatically out into the Atlantic Ocean, where the average wind speed is higher and steadier than on the mainland. But some Cape residents believe a massive wind power project will ruin the area's most important asset: its natural beauty.

"In front of us you can actually see Martha's Vineyard in the distance. And that is approximately 20 miles (32 kilometers) away from us," says Alice Fardy, who owns the Oceanside Motel, located on the shore of Nantucket Sound. As she gazes out at the Sound from the motel's deck, she explains why she opposes the Cape Wind project. "Now Martha's Vineyard is not a very high mass of land. However, the wind farm is proposing to put 170 towers only 6 miles [10 kilometers] out directly in front of us and of course these things are going to be very visible to the public. There's no way that they aren't going to be able to see these towers at only 6 miles [10 km] away."

Not surprisingly, Brian Braggington Smith, one of the partners in the international consortium that owns Cape Wind, has a different view. Mr. Smith says what's most important is that Cape Wind could eventually produce the equivalent of half the Cape's annual electricity needs. "Here we have the fastest growing energy resource in the world, we have the best wind in the country, some of the best people in the world, and we have a net energy demand that is growing at a very rapid pace in a region that has no other indigenous resources other than this," he says.

With their huge rotating blades fully extended, the Cape Wind turbines will each be forty stories high. Opponents like to point out that this would make them taller than the Statue of Liberty. Longtime Cape resident Peter Hickman says that would create an eyesore for tourists and residents alike. "We think that this would represent an industrial intrusion, degradation is the right word, of a beautiful pristine body of water," he says. "If we lose our coastal waters, Cape Cod might as well be plunked down in the middle of Ohio."

But supporters of the Cape Wind project, including many in the scientific community, argue that its environmental benefits are well worth the impact it might have on the local scenery. Joe Hackler is a scientist with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. He says where you stand on the issue depends on your values. "People who have waterfront properties and who have yachts feel that it's a detriment to their experience out in Nantucket Sound," he says. "For those of us who are concerned about climate change, toxification, human health implications of the use of fossil fuels, these tiny little specks on the landscape are sort of an exciting thing."

Peter Hickman bristles at the notion that only well-moneyed yacht owners oppose the project. Indeed, commercial fishermen worry that because the turbines would be located in prime fishing ground, they could interfere with harvesting. Local officials say the project would harm the tourism business. Opposition is so strong that none of the candidates running for Governor of Massachusetts this year have endorsed the project.

At a recent gubernatorial debate on the Cape, one candidate, former U.S. Labor Secretary Robert Reich, argued that there are two types of environmentalism of equal value. "We talk about one aspect and that's renewable energy, clean air, clean water here on the Cape and everywhere around Massachusetts and we need it. But one aspect of environmentalism that's not talked about often enough in my view is scenic beauty and preserving the scenic beauty of the Cape and everywhere else."

Even without the opposition, Cape Wind has a long way to go before it can become a reality. The proposal has to be studied and approved by federal and state agencies, a process that could take two years. Regulators will use that time to decide, among other things, whether the need to preserve an area's natural beauty outweighs the need to support a clean and inexhaustible energy source.
 

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Doctorfish,

I thought the project was supposed to be built only 5-7 miles off Long Beach? Do you have any idea how they want to anchor the towers, individual pilings or rafts?

If will we be able to fish around them they could provide great structure and possibly a sanctuary for fish from draggers. Unfortunately, inlight of recent concerns, I would guess we will not be allowed to. Why not add another eyesore to thelandscape like the federal court house in Islip. Maybe it will help to lower some of the real estate prices around the Island (Yes, I do not own my own home yet).

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Doughboy-

Exactly. The Cholera Banks is only in about 80 feet of water. It a huge rocky area that supports a great blackfish, ling and sea bass fishery (in addition to porgies, gorilla blues, huge fluke, etc...) Many decades ago it was THE PLACE to fish around here for cod during the winter months.

The proposed project is a field of windmills. Each would be constructed out of concrete and steel much the same way they do the legs of a large bridge.

Yes, the structures would indeed attract fish. But I can't imagine them letting boats fish under or near the giant props. There are also going to be some high-voltage lines in the area. I'm sure they would be concerned about boat anchors in the cable crossing area.
 

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Doc, I believe you may not anchor within 300' of a possible power cable.

Plus, I believe the windmills are more likely to drive away fish. When the propeller turns, It will make noise, along with the generator. Unless they can make it sound proof, it will be a major source of noise being tranferred into the ocean. And if I'm correct, most fish tend be scaredy cats...
 

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This is not likely to happen soon. They do not even have the technology to build these things in deep water yet. Cost will be prohibitive. More likely to see them inshore in shallower water but that fight will take another generation and probably a world oil crisis of some kind to jell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry Striper, you are wrong

This is actually old technology. The coast of Long Island is very shallow compared to the rest of the world. These wind farms are usually constructed in sixty to one hundred feet of water. It's not a "theory" but something that is working already for in dozens of other places in the world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Access, your link did not work. If you want to research this you need to look for "OFFSHORE" Windfarms.

I have a bunch of pics and some maps somewhere on my hard drive. I'll see if this website will allow uploads again (posting photos has been down for the past day).
 

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windfarms and marine protected areas

i would like to be able to fish around these windmill structures, but i think doctorfish is probably correct in saying that they would be off-limits to anglers.

there has also been talk of the inevitable creation of mpa's (marine protected areas) in the nor'east, which COULD be off-limits to anglers. (i say COULD because they COULD be set up to allow for catch & release only angling.)

i feel that these wind farms are a good way to generate power, when you consider all of the positives such as cleanliness, public health, energy independence etc.

i also feel that some type of mpa is a good idea; as long as it is located in an area that does not already support much fish, and does not displace existing anglers and commercial fishermen.

perhaps these windfarms could be constructed on barren bottom and thereby serve as marine sanctuaries as well as a good,clean power source.
 

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i also feel that some type of mpa is a good idea; as long as it is located in an area that does not already support much fish, and does not displace existing anglers and commercial fishermen

What sense would it be to have a MPA in an area that does not support fish?
And the above wishy washy comment is just the thing that will displace all fishermen, but mostly Surf fishermen cause most of there ideas start at the shore and work out to sea
 

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kevin w

i will explain my "wishy-washy" comment for you.

there is a very strong movement in this country for the creation of mpa's. in our southern waters several have already been created, and they exclude all fishermen. many people feel that it is only a matter of time before mpa's are created in the nor'east. do a nor'east search under "marine sanctuaries" and you will see a thread initated by gamakatsu last august about this topic.

now let me ask you this - if mpa's in the nor'east are inevitable - which would you prefer for a long island mpa:

1) the cholera banks

2) a 10 mile radius surrounding montauk point

3) an area of ocean off long island south shore having little or no structure, no wrecks or reefs, and low populations of fish.

if you choose # 3, then you let the people who are pushing so hard for mpa's, create (and fund) an artificial reef on this barren bottom.

if these windfarms are to be created, and must be off-limits to anglers, then why not let that site serve as the regions mpa?

i hope this explanation helps you to understand my "wishy-washy" thinking.
 

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Opinari

About 4 years ago, there was a scientific study done by U of Cal-Berkley, that said all artificial reefs should be closed for 5-10 years, then when reopened, only opened for recreational fisherman.

I believe the bill to close all reefs was brought up in the House of Reps, but never had any real backing, probably due to commercial and recreational fisherman pressures...

Now, I believe that states have the option to close certain reefs, but so far only California and Florida have taken up on that.

Do you think that NYS would ever close down a reef, say the AB or Smithtown artificials? or do you think there would be too much pressure against doing something like that?

My personal feelings are that they should close reefs on a rotating schedule, like a reef is closed for 2 years, then when it's reopened another reef is closed....
 

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Wind mill power is on of those things that sounds great on paper but in application doesn't work out as well (at least with current technology). Off shore wind mills are an interesting idea but I wonder how they can construct a wind mill to withstand our Nor'easters, gales and hurricanes. Sounds like another Texas Tower effort with similar possible results (hopefully no human fatalities).

Large wind mills are noise and being offshore how will they secure them? Surely they will be targets for vandals, maybe even terrorists. Especially if LI eventually does really come to rely on them for electricity.

Also, I wonder what PETA will say when they find several dozen "endangered" sea birds floating in the water around the props, all chopped up.

Jaiem
ArtsNFlies.com
 

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Most people think of a large windmill when you mention wind-driven power, but there is a design which uses a prop whose blades rotate like a helicopter; it's parallel to the ground. Aesthetically, it's much less intrusive and since the blades are high above it offer superior safety to the more traditional windmill-style design.
 

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Crag

The windmill blades you are talking about are not very efficient, it takes twice as many to create the same amount of power.

The ones proposed for the waters off LI are the regular propellers that have blades that can be between 40-60 feet long. Being offshore, aestetics don't matter.....

The one draw back to these is that they make lots of residual noise that will be transmitted into the water, the 'mills that are horizontally fixed don't create much noise because they have a more direct drive shaft, unlike the verticals which spin, turn a gear in a transfer case, then in turn rotates the drive shaft which goes to the turbine... Lots of noise in there.
 

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jmc

i don't know if that berkely study and that proposed bill you mention have anything to do with the reality of mpa's. (gama, say what you will about berkely, but i still love my fireline.)

jmc, if you havn't already, you should do a nor'east search under "marine sanctuaries". you will find a very informative discussion started by gamakatsu last august. there is a lot of good info buried in that thread, and mpa's are a subject that every serious angler should become familiar with, sooner - rather than later - or before it is too late.

btw, does anybody bother to do nor'east searches anymore???

stored on this site is a ton of valuable info; and a lot of good answers already written, to questions asked here,over and over.

many who took the time to answer those questions the first time, may no longer be around to hear them asked again, but the answer is sitting right there, just a couple of clicks away.
 

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I read that post about a month before I actually joined. Lots of information, it's just too bad you won't be able to find it now. I can't find anything posted before November since they changed to this message board format.

BTW, I still use the searches, but they sometimes don't go back as far as I'd like them to.

I am all for marine sanctuaries, would actually like them to be in place, but not permanent ones.... I would say close down the area for anywhere from 2-5 years.... Then just run a simple rotation....
 
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