Immigration nonsense!! I NEED HELP HERE!!!
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LItoMD wrote:
......................And then getting know of persons who immigrated here illegally. You see, its much more difficult to talk about immigration in harsh tones and suggest rash actions when you have actually met and talked with people.
This is like the second or third time you've refered to that statement.
Just because they are nice people doesn't make it right or OK for them to be here
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.................illegal is illegal.
In taking your line of thought, once you get to meet these illegals and hear their plight, it makes it ok for them to continue doing what they are doing and we should just open our doors and arms to them because they had it rough.
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How about the killers, rapists, murderers, and all the others in prison that broke the laws?,etc......many of them are really nice people as well. So what, they broke the law and did something that was illegal.........so what, there nice guys, give em a break.
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......................And then getting know of persons who immigrated here illegally. You see, its much more difficult to talk about immigration in harsh tones and suggest rash actions when you have actually met and talked with people.
This is like the second or third time you've refered to that statement.
Just because they are nice people doesn't make it right or OK for them to be here
In taking your line of thought, once you get to meet these illegals and hear their plight, it makes it ok for them to continue doing what they are doing and we should just open our doors and arms to them because they had it rough.
How about the killers, rapists, murderers, and all the others in prison that broke the laws?,etc......many of them are really nice people as well. So what, they broke the law and did something that was illegal.........so what, there nice guys, give em a break.
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Here is something to ponder: Getting the Government the Third World Deserves
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Jaiem wrote:
AZFISHKILLER wrote:
I know that approximately 25% of the land mass of what is now the USA, was mexico, until the corrupt mexican government (Santa Ana) sold it to the USA for a pitiful sum.
Manhattan island was bought from the local indians for $24 worth of beads and trinkets.
Maybe we should give it back too?
Not suggesting anything like that. We bought and paid for it, and it is ours!!!!!
Not even thinking in that way at all. I believe you follow the rules, or you don't come here.
What I was trying to get people to see with that statement, is that, this was mexico, and when we bought it, it came with mexicans that already lived here.
Arizona at one time was the northern half of the state of Sonora mexico. When we bought it, we divided the state with mexico. Too many mexicans, the border is thier equivelant of the Berlin Wall.
AZFISHKILLER wrote:
I know that approximately 25% of the land mass of what is now the USA, was mexico, until the corrupt mexican government (Santa Ana) sold it to the USA for a pitiful sum.
Manhattan island was bought from the local indians for $24 worth of beads and trinkets.
Maybe we should give it back too?
Not suggesting anything like that. We bought and paid for it, and it is ours!!!!!
Not even thinking in that way at all. I believe you follow the rules, or you don't come here.
What I was trying to get people to see with that statement, is that, this was mexico, and when we bought it, it came with mexicans that already lived here.
Arizona at one time was the northern half of the state of Sonora mexico. When we bought it, we divided the state with mexico. Too many mexicans, the border is thier equivelant of the Berlin Wall.
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Well, I can tell you that I have and do know more than a few illegal aliens, and they are not all Latin Americans. And I can also tell you that not all of them are the "needy" people you portray. Also a lot of them want no part of a "path to citizenship." All they want to do is make money and send it home and then, eventually, to return home themselves and "retire." with what we would consider a little money in the bank, they can afford to retire in their home countries and live pretty well.
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Heck, even the immigrants that are here legally do that. They leave their families behind while they come here to work. They send all their money, minus the minimum needed to live here, back home. A friend has a masonary business, and has a few Mexican immigrants...........that are here with proper documentation.(alledgedly) All their money goes back to Mexico, they get laid off every winter and collect unemployment and spend the winters back in Mexico. The boss calls them when it's time to work again and they come back for the summer.
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Who got it better then them???????????????/
All their money goes back to Mexico, they get laid off every winter and collect unemployment and spend the winters back in Mexico. The boss calls them when it's time to work again and they come back for the summer.
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Sending money back home to the "old country" has been done since time in memorial (or at least since it was feasable to do it safely). I don't have a problem with that. If someone legally earned the money it's thiers to do with as they please legally. If they want to send it back home to support family there fine. If they want to send it back home so others can come here fine - legally!
I fail to understand why a number of people are so going out of thier way to ignore that word "illegal". Americans are a soft-hearted people. But have we become sooooo soft that the end justifies the means? When can we apply that to other aspects of the law? Somehow I don't think a judge would accept hardship and proverty as a excuse for say drug dealing or carjacking.
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I fail to understand why a number of people are so going out of thier way to ignore that word "illegal".
Americans are a soft-hearted people. But have we become sooooo soft that the end justifies the means? When can we apply that to other aspects of the law? Somehow I don't think a judge would accept hardship and proverty as a excuse for say drug dealing or carjacking.
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Interesting Read on the Subject Today:
A Green Card in Every Pot - Ann Coulter
Americans ? at least really stupid Americans like George Bush ? believe the natural state of the world is to have individual self-determination, human rights, the rule of law and a robust democratic economy. On this view, most of the existing world and almost all of world history is a freakish aberration.
In fact, the natural state of the world is Darfur. The freakish aberration is America and the rest of the Anglo-Saxon world.
The British Empire once spread the culture of prosperity around the globe ? Judeo-Christian values, tolerance, equality, private property and the rule of law. All recipients of the British Empire's largesse benefited, but the empire's most successful colony was the United States.
At the precise moment in history when the U.S. has abandoned any attempt to transmit Anglo-Saxon virtues to its own citizens, much less to immigrants, George Bush wants to grant citizenship to hordes of immigrants who are here precisely because they are fleeing cultures that are utterly dysfunctional and ruinous for the humans who live in them.
Yes, this country has absorbed huge migrations of illiterate peasants in the past ? notably Italian immigrants at the turn of the last century. But also notably, half of them went back. We got the good ones. America was not yet a welfare state guaranteeing room and board to the luckless, the lazy and the incompetent from cradle to grave.
Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, immigrant and first Jewish member of the Supreme Court, said that Americanization required that the immigrant adopt "the clothes, the manners and the customs generally prevailing here" and that he adopt "the English language as the common medium of speech."
But, Brandeis said, this is only part of it. "(W)e properly demand of the immigrant even more than this ? he must be brought into complete harmony with our ideals and aspirations and cooperate with us for their attainment. Only when this has been done will he possess the national consciousness of an American."
Or as George Bush would call it, "empty rhetoric." And as Linda Chavez would call it, "racist."
I wish our new immigrants had come to America back when the foundations of civic society and patriotism were still inculcated in all immigrants (and when half of them went home). But traitors who are citizens have destroyed all acculturating institutions. Traitors who are citizens have also destroyed all incentive for the poor to work or even keep their knees together before marriage.
Until the recipient culture is capable of doing an effective job of Americanizing immigrants, it's preposterous to talk about a massive influx of Hispanic immigrants accomplishing anything other than turning America into yet another Latin American-style banana republic. And it is simply a fact that no one is trying to turn immigrants into Americans.
To the contrary, Democrats are trying to turn new immigrants into wards of the state ? and with some success! ? so they will be permanent Democratic voters. Rich Republicans and their handmaidens in Washington are trying to turn immigrants into a permanent servant class.
In an astonishing exchange on Fox News last weekend, Dan Henninger of The Wall Street Journal responded to Heather MacDonald's point that Hispanics in this country have a 50 percent illegitimacy rate, the highest teen pregnancy rate of any group and the highest high school drop-out rate of any group, by asking: "Why don't we feel we are under cultural assault in New York City? You have no sense of this at all here."
You also have no sense of the existence of a middle class in New York City. The rich have hidden the evidence, transplanting all but the massively wealthy to the suburbs. Manhattan is white and getting whiter, while the boroughs are noticeably less white and more dysfunctional.
What evidence is there for the proposition that American culture will leap like a tenacious form of tuberculosis to today's immigrants? Americans display no evident desire to defend their culture, much less transmit it, and immigrants show no evident desire to adopt it.
To the contrary, immigrants are replacing American culture with Latin American culture. Their apparent constant need to demonstrate is just one example.
As Mac Johnson wrote in Human Events last year, these immigrant protests represent "the colonization of America by the Latin style of politics." He listed just some of the demonstrations drawing thousands ? sometimes hundreds of thousands ? of protesters over the last few years in Mexico alone. Among the targets of the protests were a new regional trade pact, plans to allow private investment in the state-owned electricity industry, energy and tax reforms, and support for the mayor of Mexico City.
In 1993 ? long before 9/11, before the USS Cole bombing, before the bombing of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania ? the eminent Harvard political scientist Samuel P. Huntington predicted that the greatest threat to Western civilization would come from a clash of civilizations, noting with particular concern the "bloody borders" of the Muslim world.
So it ought to be of some interest that Huntington is now predicting, in his book "Who Are We: The Challenges to America's National Identity," that America cannot survive the cultural onslaught from Latin America.
American Hispanics responded to Huntington's book with a flurry of scholarly papers and academic debates to counter his thesis that Mexicans were not assimilating.
Just kidding! They called for national protests against Huntington, his publisher and Harvard University.
A Green Card in Every Pot - Ann Coulter
Americans ? at least really stupid Americans like George Bush ? believe the natural state of the world is to have individual self-determination, human rights, the rule of law and a robust democratic economy. On this view, most of the existing world and almost all of world history is a freakish aberration.
In fact, the natural state of the world is Darfur. The freakish aberration is America and the rest of the Anglo-Saxon world.
The British Empire once spread the culture of prosperity around the globe ? Judeo-Christian values, tolerance, equality, private property and the rule of law. All recipients of the British Empire's largesse benefited, but the empire's most successful colony was the United States.
At the precise moment in history when the U.S. has abandoned any attempt to transmit Anglo-Saxon virtues to its own citizens, much less to immigrants, George Bush wants to grant citizenship to hordes of immigrants who are here precisely because they are fleeing cultures that are utterly dysfunctional and ruinous for the humans who live in them.
Yes, this country has absorbed huge migrations of illiterate peasants in the past ? notably Italian immigrants at the turn of the last century. But also notably, half of them went back. We got the good ones. America was not yet a welfare state guaranteeing room and board to the luckless, the lazy and the incompetent from cradle to grave.
Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, immigrant and first Jewish member of the Supreme Court, said that Americanization required that the immigrant adopt "the clothes, the manners and the customs generally prevailing here" and that he adopt "the English language as the common medium of speech."
But, Brandeis said, this is only part of it. "(W)e properly demand of the immigrant even more than this ? he must be brought into complete harmony with our ideals and aspirations and cooperate with us for their attainment. Only when this has been done will he possess the national consciousness of an American."
Or as George Bush would call it, "empty rhetoric." And as Linda Chavez would call it, "racist."
I wish our new immigrants had come to America back when the foundations of civic society and patriotism were still inculcated in all immigrants (and when half of them went home). But traitors who are citizens have destroyed all acculturating institutions. Traitors who are citizens have also destroyed all incentive for the poor to work or even keep their knees together before marriage.
Until the recipient culture is capable of doing an effective job of Americanizing immigrants, it's preposterous to talk about a massive influx of Hispanic immigrants accomplishing anything other than turning America into yet another Latin American-style banana republic. And it is simply a fact that no one is trying to turn immigrants into Americans.
To the contrary, Democrats are trying to turn new immigrants into wards of the state ? and with some success! ? so they will be permanent Democratic voters. Rich Republicans and their handmaidens in Washington are trying to turn immigrants into a permanent servant class.
In an astonishing exchange on Fox News last weekend, Dan Henninger of The Wall Street Journal responded to Heather MacDonald's point that Hispanics in this country have a 50 percent illegitimacy rate, the highest teen pregnancy rate of any group and the highest high school drop-out rate of any group, by asking: "Why don't we feel we are under cultural assault in New York City? You have no sense of this at all here."
You also have no sense of the existence of a middle class in New York City. The rich have hidden the evidence, transplanting all but the massively wealthy to the suburbs. Manhattan is white and getting whiter, while the boroughs are noticeably less white and more dysfunctional.
What evidence is there for the proposition that American culture will leap like a tenacious form of tuberculosis to today's immigrants? Americans display no evident desire to defend their culture, much less transmit it, and immigrants show no evident desire to adopt it.
To the contrary, immigrants are replacing American culture with Latin American culture. Their apparent constant need to demonstrate is just one example.
As Mac Johnson wrote in Human Events last year, these immigrant protests represent "the colonization of America by the Latin style of politics." He listed just some of the demonstrations drawing thousands ? sometimes hundreds of thousands ? of protesters over the last few years in Mexico alone. Among the targets of the protests were a new regional trade pact, plans to allow private investment in the state-owned electricity industry, energy and tax reforms, and support for the mayor of Mexico City.
In 1993 ? long before 9/11, before the USS Cole bombing, before the bombing of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania ? the eminent Harvard political scientist Samuel P. Huntington predicted that the greatest threat to Western civilization would come from a clash of civilizations, noting with particular concern the "bloody borders" of the Muslim world.
So it ought to be of some interest that Huntington is now predicting, in his book "Who Are We: The Challenges to America's National Identity," that America cannot survive the cultural onslaught from Latin America.
American Hispanics responded to Huntington's book with a flurry of scholarly papers and academic debates to counter his thesis that Mexicans were not assimilating.
Just kidding! They called for national protests against Huntington, his publisher and Harvard University.
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Working here legally and sending monies home is one thing, but what bugs me is when these workers get laid off for the off-season, then move back home to their country and collect unemployment from this country. That, to me seems like an abuse of the system. I wonder where the state mails their UI checks to?
Just doesn't make sense to me. How can the state pay insurance benefits to a person who works and lives here temporarily?
Just doesn't make sense to me. How can the state pay insurance benefits to a person who works and lives here temporarily?
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Lattitudechange wrote:
Working here legally and sending monies home is one thing, but what bugs me is when these workers get laid off for the off-season, then move back home to their country and collect unemployment from this country. That, to me seems like an abuse of the system. I wonder where the state mails their UI checks to?
I don't get it either. Doesn't it ring odd to someone that a UI, SS, SSI etc. check is being mailed to a totally different address than the person claiming it? Not to mention out of the country?!?! At the very least mailing to Mexico requires more postage than just a 1st class stamp.
I propose the U.S. Treasury merge with the UN international registry and just send checks to everyone.
Working here legally and sending monies home is one thing, but what bugs me is when these workers get laid off for the off-season, then move back home to their country and collect unemployment from this country. That, to me seems like an abuse of the system. I wonder where the state mails their UI checks to?
I don't get it either. Doesn't it ring odd to someone that a UI, SS, SSI etc. check is being mailed to a totally different address than the person claiming it? Not to mention out of the country?!?! At the very least mailing to Mexico requires more postage than just a 1st class stamp.
I propose the U.S. Treasury merge with the UN international registry and just send checks to everyone.
Jaiem wrote:
Lattitudechange wrote:
Working here legally and sending monies home is one thing, but what bugs me is when these workers get laid off for the off-season, then move back home to their country and collect unemployment from this country. That, to me seems like an abuse of the system. I wonder where the state mails their UI checks to?
I don't get it either. Doesn't it ring odd to someone that a UI, SS, SSI etc. check is being mailed to a totally different address than the person claiming it? Not to mention out of the country?!?! At the very least mailing to Mexico requires more postage than just a 1st class stamp.
I propose the U.S. Treasury merge with the UN international registry and just send checks to everyone.
Okay. Illegal is illegal and they should be treated like the criminals that they are - in other words apprehended, jailed, and deported. The above issue is a little different - If the workers are here legally and consequently they and their employer pays into Unemployment and SS there's not much of an issue - at least for me - with them receiving Unemployment in the offseason even if they live overseas in the offseason. How is it different from the US retiree collecting SS living overseas?? Or the retired NYS worker collecting his/her pension benefit while living overseas??
Lattitudechange wrote:
Working here legally and sending monies home is one thing, but what bugs me is when these workers get laid off for the off-season, then move back home to their country and collect unemployment from this country. That, to me seems like an abuse of the system. I wonder where the state mails their UI checks to?
I don't get it either. Doesn't it ring odd to someone that a UI, SS, SSI etc. check is being mailed to a totally different address than the person claiming it? Not to mention out of the country?!?! At the very least mailing to Mexico requires more postage than just a 1st class stamp.
I propose the U.S. Treasury merge with the UN international registry and just send checks to everyone.
Okay. Illegal is illegal and they should be treated like the criminals that they are - in other words apprehended, jailed, and deported. The above issue is a little different - If the workers are here legally and consequently they and their employer pays into Unemployment and SS there's not much of an issue - at least for me - with them receiving Unemployment in the offseason even if they live overseas in the offseason. How is it different from the US retiree collecting SS living overseas?? Or the retired NYS worker collecting his/her pension benefit while living overseas??
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flattie wrote:
The above issue is a little different - If the workers are here legally and consequently they and their employer pays into Unemployment and SS there's not much of an issue - at least for me - with them receiving Unemployment in the offseason even if they live overseas in the offseason.
I was unaware that Visa employees are entitled to UI, SS etc. What a great country!
quote:
How is it different from the US retiree collecting SS living overseas?? Or the retired NYS worker collecting his/her pension benefit while living overseas??
Putting aside SS for a moment, pension/401k etc is a private fund. UI, SS, SSI etc is public assistance. (don't flame me about SS!)
The above issue is a little different - If the workers are here legally and consequently they and their employer pays into Unemployment and SS there's not much of an issue - at least for me - with them receiving Unemployment in the offseason even if they live overseas in the offseason.
I was unaware that Visa employees are entitled to UI, SS etc. What a great country!
quote:
How is it different from the US retiree collecting SS living overseas?? Or the retired NYS worker collecting his/her pension benefit while living overseas??
Putting aside SS for a moment, pension/401k etc is a private fund. UI, SS, SSI etc is public assistance. (don't flame me about SS!)
Joined
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67,033 Posts
Unemployment benefits are a matter of state law, so you would have to check the state's rules as to who is elgible. Personally I have problem with legal aliens being eligible, their employer pay for their UI just like they do for citizens. As for SS their entitlemnt or lack thereof is determined by their country of origin if they are here temporarily. Many countries have what is called a "totalization" agreement with the U.S. where their residents earn into the home country's pension while working in the U.S. If they are a permanent resident of the U.S. then they are treated the same as a U.S. citizen, and why shouldn't they be?
Why should it make a difference as to where the "check" is mailed? In fact most of the time its not a check but a credit to a bank account.
Why should it make a difference as to where the "check" is mailed? In fact most of the time its not a check but a credit to a bank account.
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67,033 Posts
Jaiem wrote:
Sent to an offshore bank account?
Sure they'll send the credit to any bank account you specify. But most folks who are living abroad, especially those in "less Devloped" countries, keep most of their liquid assts in U.S. Accounts, and that includes most of the foreign citizens living in those countries who have a decent amount of money.
Sent to an offshore bank account?
Sure they'll send the credit to any bank account you specify. But most folks who are living abroad, especially those in "less Devloped" countries, keep most of their liquid assts in U.S. Accounts, and that includes most of the foreign citizens living in those countries who have a decent amount of money.
Jaiem wrote:
flattie wrote:
The above issue is a little different - If the workers are here legally and consequently they and their employer pays into Unemployment and SS there's not much of an issue - at least for me - with them receiving Unemployment in the offseason even if they live overseas in the offseason.
I was unaware that Visa employees are entitled to UI, SS etc. What a great country!
quote:
How is it different from the US retiree collecting SS living overseas?? Or the retired NYS worker collecting his/her pension benefit while living overseas??
Putting aside SS for a moment, pension/401k etc is a private fund. UI, SS, SSI etc is public assistance. (don't flame me about SS!)
Jaiem,
Note that I specifically said a "retired NYS worker" which as a government employee has a pension that is funded by NYS residents tax dollars. So when the retired NYS govt worker goes to live in Belize, or Costa Rica or wherever and has their benefits sent there, NYS and its tax paying citizens receive none of the benefit in the form of expenditures in the local economy.
As far as SS, at 38 yrs of age I'd gladly forsake any future benefits and any monies I've paid in at this point in exchange for not having to contribute any money going forward. Talk about a flawed system - too bad the Dem's demonized Bush when he tried to reform SS. I have little hope of receiving much if anything at all from SS 25 yrs from now...
flattie wrote:
The above issue is a little different - If the workers are here legally and consequently they and their employer pays into Unemployment and SS there's not much of an issue - at least for me - with them receiving Unemployment in the offseason even if they live overseas in the offseason.
I was unaware that Visa employees are entitled to UI, SS etc. What a great country!
quote:
How is it different from the US retiree collecting SS living overseas?? Or the retired NYS worker collecting his/her pension benefit while living overseas??
Putting aside SS for a moment, pension/401k etc is a private fund. UI, SS, SSI etc is public assistance. (don't flame me about SS!)
Jaiem,
Note that I specifically said a "retired NYS worker" which as a government employee has a pension that is funded by NYS residents tax dollars. So when the retired NYS govt worker goes to live in Belize, or Costa Rica or wherever and has their benefits sent there, NYS and its tax paying citizens receive none of the benefit in the form of expenditures in the local economy.
As far as SS, at 38 yrs of age I'd gladly forsake any future benefits and any monies I've paid in at this point in exchange for not having to contribute any money going forward. Talk about a flawed system - too bad the Dem's demonized Bush when he tried to reform SS. I have little hope of receiving much if anything at all from SS 25 yrs from now...
Our Leaders and LI to.....
"that approach is unworkable and unreasonable" GET OUT!
Boy has that one been played out.
Why??????? Millions cross the GW Bridge each week. Millions fly out of this country each week. Why is this line of BS the standard response form the turds in Washington? And that rum soaked murderer Kennedy!
IT IS ALL BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"that approach is unworkable and unreasonable" GET OUT!
Boy has that one been played out.
Why??????? Millions cross the GW Bridge each week. Millions fly out of this country each week. Why is this line of BS the standard response form the turds in Washington? And that rum soaked murderer Kennedy!
IT IS ALL BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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makobob wrote:
I agree.
Bob
How can you agree?.. You made the comment in the first place. You can't agree with yourself. That just makes no sense........,
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Now,......... I agree......not with myself, but with your origional comment. lol
I agree.
Bob
How can you agree?
.. You made the comment in the first place. You can't agree with yourself. That just makes no sense........,
Now,......... I agree......not with myself, but with your origional comment. lol
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