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Something else to consider:

What happens when an American citizen marries a non-citizen?

On the whole the non-citizen automaticaly becomes a citizen (more or less, the paper work is just a formality). Same with any children they have outside the U.S.

So.....

We've heard there are 12 million illegals who would suddenly become legal citizens. If those 12 million are married now or get married after becoming legal thier spouses automatically citizens. So that's 24 million people. Then if they have children, lets say 2 kids on average, that's potentially 48 million+ new people in one fell swoop!
 

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LongIslandtoMD wrote:

I get your point, you think the numbers are really a persuasive reason. If the minutemen were better at their jobs, maybe we wouldnt have this problem. They are definitely seeking donations.

If the laws on the books were being enforced there would be no need for Minutemen.

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Lets assume there are 12 million immigrants. We will also assume they would "suddenly" become legal citizens (which they wouldnt).

Yes, they would. Any pretense of application, fees/fines, documentation etc. is just that - pretense. The moment someone says they don't have the documentation, can't pay the fees/fines will they be deported? Unlikely. Exception will be come the norm. It's a blank check for citizenship. Let's not hide behind legal-sleeze words and circular reasoning. The end result will be tens of millions (at the least) legalized people with in a very short period of time.

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Well, to reach your 48 million number, every one of those 12 million would have to be of the marrying age and would also marry someone from another country, in essence bringing them here.

a) I don't see too many 6-7 y/o's from Mexico coming over the border on thier own. All are of legal age to marry (meaning mid to late teens and older).

b) They don't have to get married abroad. If they are citizens here and they have a wife back in Mexico or wherever that's good enough.

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Also, each of those couples would have to reproduce. Unlikely.

Very likely. At the risk of being a stereotype, Mexicans are known for large families at young ages.

And isn't that the state reason why they come here in droves illegally? To find gainful work to support thier growing families back home?

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These alarmist numbers are just that, alarmist. The financial woes experienced by many are surely not at the hand of the "masses" of illegals that are "flooding" into the country and instantly having "seed" babies. Rather, its do to extravagant living and irresponsibility.

Yea. Ok.
 

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LongIslandtoMD wrote:
Personal question that you dont have to answer: Can you be sure that your family would have waited in their country of origin for 9 or 10 years waiting for their paperwork to be processed while they lived in squalor?

So that makes it OK to come here illegally? That makes it OK for us to rush to make them citizens?

If that's your thesis, stand back! The Biblical-proportion flood of humanity from squaller and poor countries is on it's way. IOW, if just because someone lives in pverty, dirty, squaller conditions where they are now that makes it OK to come to America any way they can and **** the documents and procedures and laws, why bother with immigration laws at all?!
 

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LongIslandtoMD wrote:
In addition to an absurd crime rate, unemployment figures are ridiculous in Mexico City. In short, many of the issues you find associated with extreme poverty exist in Mexico City. People on this board bemoan the cost of living on Long Island and cite their family as a reason to move away. The same principle exists here, people want better for their family.

Once again, why does that make it OK to come here illegal? Why does that make it OK to belong here just because they set toe on American soil? Why is that a good excuse for outright flouting American immigration laws and just showing up on American soil??

'Cause as I said before, if that's your thesis, if that's now the new standard by which to review immigrants - that it's OK to get here by hook or by crook or by any means necessary so long as you get here because you are leaving someplace of poverty - then why stop with Mexico?

How about most of the Bahamas and Caribean?(sp)
How about most of Africa? Southeast Asia? The Philipeans? Eastern Europe? Much of Russia and the former Russian territories? ('Borat' wasn't too far from the truth for countries like Kazekstan).

You can't have a double standard. If it's OK for Mexicans to just come here and have full rights and citizenship just because they are in poverty back in Mexico then the rest of the world deserves to be here too for the same reasons. Fair is fair, right? :rolleyes:
 

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LongIslandtoMD wrote:
The disgusting sense of entitlement that many US citizens have disturbs me.

What about the "disgusting sense of entitlement" we see when throngs of illegals march in the streets of American demanding rights?!

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Whether a person is here legally or not, they still deserve my respect and compassion as a HUMAN BEING.

So again, that makes it OK to break our laws?

Respect as a human being. Fine. But they broke our laws, flout breaking our laws, don't care if they are breaking our laws, demand rights and bennies while breaking our laws...what about the respect and compassion THEY exhibit (or lack thereof) of our laws and customs?

Respect and compassion is a 2-way street.


ps- What does any of this have to do with people who are breaking the law?! Why can't you answer that simple question??
 

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AZFISHKILLER wrote:
I know that approximately 25% of the land mass of what is now the USA, was mexico, until the corrupt mexican government (Santa Ana) sold it to the USA for a pitiful sum.

Manhattan island was bought from the local indians for $24 worth of beads and trinkets.

Maybe we should give it back too?
 

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Sending money back home to the "old country" has been done since time in memorial (or at least since it was feasable to do it safely). I don't have a problem with that. If someone legally earned the money it's thiers to do with as they please legally. If they want to send it back home to support family there fine. If they want to send it back home so others can come here fine - legally!

I fail to understand why a number of people are so going out of thier way to ignore that word "illegal". :confused: Americans are a soft-hearted people. But have we become sooooo soft that the end justifies the means? When can we apply that to other aspects of the law? Somehow I don't think a judge would accept hardship and proverty as a excuse for say drug dealing or carjacking.
 

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Lattitudechange wrote:
Working here legally and sending monies home is one thing, but what bugs me is when these workers get laid off for the off-season, then move back home to their country and collect unemployment from this country. That, to me seems like an abuse of the system. I wonder where the state mails their UI checks to?

I don't get it either. Doesn't it ring odd to someone that a UI, SS, SSI etc. check is being mailed to a totally different address than the person claiming it? Not to mention out of the country?!?! At the very least mailing to Mexico requires more postage than just a 1st class stamp.

I propose the U.S. Treasury merge with the UN international registry and just send checks to everyone. :mad:
 

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flattie wrote:
The above issue is a little different - If the workers are here legally and consequently they and their employer pays into Unemployment and SS there's not much of an issue - at least for me - with them receiving Unemployment in the offseason even if they live overseas in the offseason.

I was unaware that Visa employees are entitled to UI, SS etc. What a great country!

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How is it different from the US retiree collecting SS living overseas?? Or the retired NYS worker collecting his/her pension benefit while living overseas??

Putting aside SS for a moment, pension/401k etc is a private fund. UI, SS, SSI etc is public assistance. (don't flame me about SS!)
 

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MakoMike wrote:
Why should it make a difference as to where the "check" is mailed? In fact most of the time its not a check but a credit to a bank account.

Sent to an offshore bank account? :rolleyes:
 
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