[buckley]

The family of Robert Wright filed a 10-million dollar lawsuit yesterday against the Freeport Hudson Anglers, as well as Robert Hamman Sr., the owner of the ill-fated Eleni II.

In our litigous American society, where no one takes responsibility for their own actions, this suit was inevitable.

Many readers of this post will immediately blame the lawyers, but that is just another example of passing the blame. The fact is that the family of Robert Wright HIRED the lawyer to file the suit.

Just a reminder to fellow readers: when you take a "friend" or someone you meet on-line fishing on your boat, you assume tremendous responsibility as the owner/operator of the vessel. Any insurance monies which the Hamman family may have been entitled to, are now at risk pending the outcome of this lawsuit, which could take years.

Greed can overcome friendship, and I can only wonder what these men would think if they could see their families cutting each other's throats for a buck.

Personal responsibilty has gone out the window, and all of a sudden, the Eleni II "did not have adequate safety equipment on board". Who forced the owner/operator, or the crew for that matter, to go out that day?

The lack of responsibility in this country will be our downfall.

 

[MakoMike]

Buckley,
I don't agree with a couple of things you said in your post. First of all any life insurance settlement will be totally unaffected by the lawsuit. Secondly from the standpoint of a crew member I think they have a point. When we were discussing the incident lots of us pointed out that the captain is responsible for his ship. Well that includes the crew. And one of the parties being sued is the captain. There can be tremendous pressure on a crew member to go along if the captain decides to sail. IMHO he is definately responsible for the safety of his crew. As for the culpability of the Hudson anglers, I'm perfectly willing to let the courts decide that.

 

[MakoMatt]

I don't know enough of the circumstances surrounding how Robert Wright ended up fishing on the Eleni II that fateful day to comment on that part of the lawsuit. I would venture to say though that there very well could be some liability, there are many reasons why they could not only file a lawsuit, but win it as well.

As far as the lawsuit against the Freeport Hudson Anglers, great, they deserve everything they can get, although I don't think it will be too much as I have heard they don't have too much in the way of assets. Hopefully they had a big fat insurance policy in effect for the tournament, and hopefully they can also go personally after the leadership of that organization. It's a tradegy what happened and I feel the F.H.A. are in large part responsible.

Just my opinion,
Matt E.
NIKKI ANN

 

[buckley]

My main point

The point I was trying to make is that every time you take someone out for a day of "fun fishing", you are opening yourself up to a potential lawsuit in this country.
I don't care who was at fault, and I don't think it can ever be proven.
The fact is our "sue-happy" society views every tragic event (including the World Trade Center) as a chance to win the lottery.
What wrong with our thinking?

 

[MakoMatt]

buckley, I agree with you in that when friends do things together sometimes things happen, and this is just part of life. There should not be lawsuits. I did mention however that I could not comment because I did not know enough about how he ended up fishing on the Eleni II that day.

As far as the lawsuit against Freeport Hudson Anglers, that's a different story, and I think it can be proven that they are in large part responsible.

Again, just my opinion.

Matt E.
NIKKI ANN

 

[buckley]

Boat never found

Without finding the boat, it will be difficult to prove anything.

Hundreds of other boats went out that day in the same waters, and didn't go down.

Could have hit a log, could have been faulty construction, could have been washed over, who knows?

I still say, if you want to win the lottery, buy a ticket; don't sue your best friend's estate.

The sinking was undoubtedly a tragic accident, not an opportunity for someone to cash in on misfortune.

 

[MakoMike]

Buckley,
would you feel the same way if the Capt. has shot him? From the family's point of view its the same result. Every Captain should certainly be aware that he is responsible for his crew. Isn't that why we carry liability insurance on our boats?

 

[buckley]

Getting silly

I hardly think you can equate a boating "accident" with an intentional shooting.

Nobody knows what happened on that boat that day, except the four unfortunates on board.

But every Philadelphia lawyer on this site seems to be clairvoyant, and has perfect insight into this tragedy.

It seems that lawyers will be able to step into the courtroom and explain to a jury exactly what happened, and why their client should be paid some outrageous sum.

Yes, I carry 2 1/2 million liability insurance, more than most, but it wouldn't handle a 10 million dollar judgement against me. After that, you go after the estate. That's the name of the game in this country.

 

[620427]

ACCIDENT

many of the people in this country have forgotten the meaning of this word.

lawyers never heard the word, nor is it in their vocabulary.

\Ac"ci*dent\, n. [F. accident, fr. L. accidens, -dentis, p. pr. of accidere to happen; ad + cadere to fall. See Cadence, Case.]
1. Literally, a befalling; an event that takes place without one's foresight or expectation;

an undesigned, sudden, and unexpected event; chance; contingency;
often, an undesigned and unforeseen occurrence of an afflictive or unfortunate character;
a casualty;
a mishap;
as, to die by an accident.

 

[621423]

Points well taken

Regardless of how this suit turns out, this is a good lesson for all of us..As Buckley pointed out, we all must take our responsibility very seriously when it comes to the safety of our crew or friends on board.

Just because we are sometimes willing to risk our own lives by not having a life raft, eperb, survival suits, float plan registered at the dock, proper safety maintanance done like checking thru hull hoses, sea-****s, etc, doesn't mean that our guests on board would do the same, and could change their decision to go offshore.

And if you, as the owner/opperator of a boat are not up to speed with knowing what you need, or what needs to be maintained and checked regularly, you have no business taking others out.

As far as liability insurance, being a responsible captain means having liability insurance to cover us in the of an accident. We never should rely on this insurance to compensate our neglegance or unwillingness to spend the money needed to make your boat safe.

I know a few boats that take people aboard who have no clue that the boat has no raft.. How many guests would even ask that question?? And how many of those same guys don't disclose that their boats have not been surveyed and have leaky stuffin boxes, frozen sea-****s, and cracked thru hole hoses that are ready to burst...

This is a lesson for all of us...Howie

 

[buckley]

9/11

And how many people on this site have volunteered to take the families of victims of 9/11 on their boat for a day of fun fishing?

And how many of these families are engaged in multi-million dollar lawsuits against everyone under the sun for their tragic losses.

And do the owner/operators of the boats volunteering their time, boat, fuel, etc. realize that these families would also sue them for an "accident" if it were to occur while they were on board.

How many of these families will be multi-millionaires in the future, and own bigger boats than the one's who have volunteered their time and money for these victims?

Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where the burglar can sue the homeowner for injuries incurred during the commission of a crime?

Are there any tragic "accidents" in this world, which do not rate compensation?

How many drivers check their brake fluid before going on the road? Does that make them negligent if the brakes fail?

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm just so sick of lawsuits in this country.

One last word: A tourist on vacation in Mexico tried to sue a local utility company when he fell into an open manhole. The case was thrown out by the Mexican judge when the defense pointed out that hundreds of other tourists had passed the same open manhole without falling in. Maybe I should just retire to Mexico!

 

[seaslug44]

I Spoke to Mrs. Wright on The Phone on WEDNESDAY

I and a few other Noreast members here spoke with Mrs. Wright on Wednesday. Back in June her daughter signed on here and posted a few messages. Some of us had sent her our email addresses and phone numbers. Her mom held on to our numbers. She was calling to do some research for her attorney.

I have to say, after speaking with this very nice woman, none of us have the right to judge her or her family.

The timing of her phone call really opened up my eyes because it was a few days before the WICC bluefish tournament and the weather report was not very favorable. I also invited a guest on my boat who has had heart problems in the past. Right away, one would conclude that my guest should be responsible for his own actions and that if anthing had happened to him this past weekend it would have been his responsiblity.

However, after speaking with Mrs. Wright, I realized that as the captains/operators of our own vessel, it is indeed 100% OUR responsibility to not only protect our crew and guests from the usual hazards of the sea, but also to go above and beyond to the point where we should take every REASONABLE precaution INCLUDING addressing any of the SPECIAL needs of our crew & guests.

During our conversation it was clear that Mrs. Wright needs answers and explanations. It's not difficult to understand that without certain answers and explanations, she will never have closure.

Some of her concerns and questions included...

-How far did the weather boat actually travel, if they even left the inlet?

-Did they announce at the captain's meeting that the tournament would be postponed if the seas were greater than a specific height?

-Did the Coast Guard broadcast an alert about the mayday throughout the day?

-Did the Hudson Anglers make an attempt on the radio to call back all the boats once they learned that many boats had to turn back because the seas were to rough?

-Did the Hudson Anglers even attempt to keep an accurate "check-in" list that day to make sure that all participating boats were accounted for?

These were her questions that I could think of off of the top of my head (there were many others -we talked for over 40 minutes).

Whether or not a lawsuit will help her find the answers to some of these questions remains to be seen. As many of you know, since this ordeal started I have never once taken sides, pointed fingers or layed blame against at either the Hudson Anglers or the Captain of the Eleni. I have done my best to remain nuetral. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Wright even had to ask me whether or not I was a member of the Hudson Anglers (probably because I was one of the few participants she spoke to who didn't immediately start bashing the club and blaming them for the tragedy).

We all knew that this lawsuit was coming. You'd have to think that Mrs. Wright's attorney has a solid chance at winning or negotiating a settlement because cooperation between the Hudson Anglers fishing club and the captain's estate is highly unlikely. When one defendant starts pointing their finger at the other, there is a huge chance that liability will be split between the two.

As far as knocking her for filing the lawsuit, nobody knows what it is like to walk in her shoes. Perhaps she was depending upon her husband's income to pay for their home, transportation, food, college for their daughter, etc... if someone is legally responsible for her husband's death, shouldn't she be compensated?

On a final note, the deepest pockets involved in this tournament were actually the SPONSORS. I recall BUD LIGHT and BOATER'S WORLD. Does anyone remember any of the others? The HA fishing club might not have the assets or the insurance, but the sponsors surely do. If large corporations were using the tournament for their own gain, shouldn't they be held accountable for the events they put their names behind???

 

[MakoMatt]

Howie, I agree with you in that there is a lesson in this for all of us, I learned one, I fished the Tournament that day and heard the Mayday from the Eleni II and a short conversation they had with who I believe to be the U.S. Coast Gaurd.

buckley, they don't need to find the boat to prove anything, there is nothing to prove. Even in a criminal trial, all you need to show is "beyond a reasonable doubt", this is a civil matter where "preponderance of evidence" is all the jury will need to decide. Kinda like the difference between saying "I think he did it" vs. "maybe he did it".

In any event, having fished the tournament and attended the captain's meeting the night before, I can tell you 1st. hand, that in my opinion, the Freeport Hudson Anglers made a series of mistakes that ultimatly led the crew of the Eleni II to decide to participate in the tournament that day. Not a Philadelphia lawyer, or a clairvoyant here, just a "regular guy" who was there.

Matt E.
NIKKI ANN

 

[B.Attitude]

Dr.Fish

Dr Fish,
This is one of the first times I agree with you 1000%. Nobody on this site is walking in that woman's shoes right now.The money cannot bring her husband back,it won't even ease the pain.However,it can help her deal with her daily financial problems without
her husband being there for her.We would all want this for our wifes if something happened to us.We knew this was coming,it was to be expected.Well said Dr. Fish.
paulie

 

[B.Attitude]

Buckley

You brought up a sore subject with me,you mentioned the World Trade Center.
Believe me,the victoms families do not feel that they just hit the lottery.Do you feel that they are entitled to a settlement?
paulie

 

[620427]

the BIGGEST threat to fishing

LAWSUITS AND LITIGATION

this lawsuit will probably change the way some of the future tournaments are run and insured.

sponsors will think twice about sponsoring tournaments if they are exposed to such liability.

this will possibly even end some of the smaller tournaments that will not be able to afford the rising insurance premiums.

lets look 10 years into the future:

we have boat manufctures putting hundreds of thousands of people into smaller and faster boats ever year, small down payments, easy monthly payments and NO TRAINING.
boating accidents are on the rise and will continue to skyrocket, with this your liability and insurance premiums will follow.
so will the cost of insuring the commercial boats that harvest the bait we use, leading to rising bait costs.
party boat and charter boat insurance will rise as well.

the cost of fishing will rise to a point that once again only the "wealthy" will be able to participate.

i am still waiting to see the first lawsuit against mustad, gamakatsu or one of the other manufactures by a fisherman who got hooked by accident.
it is only a matter of time.

as an example of what i am talking about:

this spring i took a week long fishing trip to alaska, we were in a remote area that involved using float planes for transportation to the lodge and for fishing as well.
the cost of the trip for the week was $4,500.
in conversation with the lodge owner we were discussing the lodge business he ran, and he explained some of his various expenses.
he chartered 3 different aircraft for the 12 week season, they were provided by a charter company and flow by their pilots. besides the insurance the air charter company carried, the lodge owner needed to carry his own seperate insurance for the airplane use.
he told me that his bill this season for liability insurance for his guests while using the 3 aircraft was $108,000.
insurance for his marine operations was $ 21,000 for the season.

he calculates about $850 in insurance cost for each guest that comes to the lodge.

that amounts to 19% of my trip cost !

lodge owner said that the cost of insurance rises about 8% a year for him.

this is the future we face.

 

[MakoMike]

Buckley,
I agree with you that there are lots of ridiculous lawsuits filed in this country. But I don't think this is one of them, not do I think that this particular suit is symptomatic of the problem. Stop and think about how much you would earn for the rest of your life. It may seem like a ridiculous amount, but there is probably some valid reasons behind it.

 

[buckley]

Who can say...

Who can say that the sinking of the Eleni was not just a tragic accident?

I hope I maintain enough life insurance, so that if I should meet an untimely end, my family will be taken care of, and they will not have to sue another family's estate, who has also suffered a terrible loss.

As far as the WTC goes, I believe that the families of the victims suffered terrible losses. Many have turned down government offers of more than 1 million dollars, tax-free, and are holding out for higher "settlements".
Relatives of victims from the previous bombing of the WTC received nothing.
Should the government have to pay for this act of war against the US? You tell me.

 

[seaslug44]

Megalodon,

I have to disagree with you about sponsors pulling their advertising. The most dangerous sport in the world is Nascar racing. It is virtually "uninsurable". Yet, show me one Nascar racing car that isn't decorated from head to toe with sponsorship advertising! If you draw the crowds, the sponsors will be there despite the costs involved.

 

[B.Attitude]

Don't be surprised,if the capt.'s son(who also died that day) was married his wife may turn and sue the fathers estate also.THATS THE WAY IT IS TODAY.And I bet the capt.'s wife would understand.