Moriches Bay gets more shallow every year. I think the fishing might get a boost if sections of the Bay were dredged. The depth around bouy 29, for example, is way down, and the area around the East Cut, by the islands, could benefit from some dredging too.
Dredging Moriches Bay
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The Inlet
A few years ago the had that breach in West Hampton on Dune Road. The bay freshened right up. It is not the bay but the inlet that needs a good dredging. Therr is only about 3 ft of water at low tide right in front of the inlet. I heard they have plans to do it this fall and winter. If they do the sealife and brown tide that is in The GSB will clean up in a heartbeat.
Hope it is true.
Bill
A few years ago the had that breach in West Hampton on Dune Road. The bay freshened right up. It is not the bay but the inlet that needs a good dredging. Therr is only about 3 ft of water at low tide right in front of the inlet. I heard they have plans to do it this fall and winter. If they do the sealife and brown tide that is in The GSB will clean up in a heartbeat.
Hope it is true.
Bill
IMO, the patchogue and bellport bays are not influenced enough by either inlet, dredged or not. Obviously, any dredging will benefit these waters, and every effort should be made to keep maximum flow at the 2 inlets. Maybe construction of a third inlet somewhere in between Cherry Grove and the SP bridge? What a beautiful bay it would be!
I agree with baylover, an inlet near bellport or patchogue would do wonders for fishing in the bay. I recall an old salty telling me about an 'old inlet' that was in the area of bellport bay. There is still an area referred to as old inlet on fire island, I wonder if thats it. Seem to remember he said the Army Corp(?) closed it in the 20s or 30s. Anyone hear about this? What impact on the mainland would an inlet have? i.e. higher water, etc...
There have been a bunch of inlets between Moriches and Fire Island over the centuries. One way of telling is to look for marsh islands in the bay. They are remnants of islands formed when inlets existed. There was an inlet at Old Inlet. I believe it filled in in the 1800's when a ship sank in it. A good hurricane will open another inlet in that area. There have been overwashes there almost every winter for the past 3 or 4 years. Any inlet that does form will be unlikely to last as the bay is very shallow. One of the factors you need for an inlet to remain is a deepish water on the bay side. Old Inlet is in the Wilderness Area of Fire Island National Seashore. This will likely preclude any filling of the inlet by the Army Corps. It is a topic of discussion betweent the Corps and the Park Service. Despite all the dire predictions of beach homeowners about mainland flooding if new inlets open up very little flooding resulted from Little Pikes Inlet when it formed east of Moriches Inlet. There was a small increase in the tidal range in Moriches Bay. The effect stopped east of Smith's Point, not even making it to Bellport Bay. If you think about it, ever time they dregde an inlet they increase tidal flow and in theory increase potential for flooding because of the increase in the cross-sectional area of the inlet. No one ever says that its going to adversely impact the mainland though.
Only a dream... It could never happen
It sounds like a great idea but it is only a dream. There is a multi-million dollar shellfishing and crabbing industry in Great South Bay that greatly depends upon the bay's brackish waters for its survival. Any additional sea water would increase the salinity to the point where hardshell clams could not survive. Without their primary food source, the blue claw crab population would diminish.
It could never happen.
It sounds like a great idea but it is only a dream. There is a multi-million dollar shellfishing and crabbing industry in Great South Bay that greatly depends upon the bay's brackish waters for its survival. Any additional sea water would increase the salinity to the point where hardshell clams could not survive. Without their primary food source, the blue claw crab population would diminish.
It could never happen.
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5,139 Posts
DIG IT OUT
If you remember a few years ago when they had that breach in West Hampton the whole GSB got a good cleaning out because of the new flow of water. The crabbing and clamming was great.
In the last few years we have nothing but the brown tide and it looks like coffee rather then saltwater.
I am out of Patchouge and it is bad. No clams small crabs and the weekies are there but small. Snappers are starting to come around but not like they should.
What they should of done when they had that breach is take the fill from the inlet and used that to fill in the breach, same distance! But that required using common sence, 2 birds for the price of one.
Bill
If you remember a few years ago when they had that breach in West Hampton the whole GSB got a good cleaning out because of the new flow of water. The crabbing and clamming was great.
In the last few years we have nothing but the brown tide and it looks like coffee rather then saltwater.
I am out of Patchouge and it is bad. No clams small crabs and the weekies are there but small. Snappers are starting to come around but not like they should.
What they should of done when they had that breach is take the fill from the inlet and used that to fill in the breach, same distance! But that required using common sence, 2 birds for the price of one.
Bill
What Bill descibes is common everywhere in the Patchogue/Sayville area. I will keep my fingers crossed that dredging the inlet in Moriches will have a positive effect but I'm not too optimistic.
The description that Bill gives about it looking like coffee is so true. It's not so much the lack of fresh ocean water as it is TOO MUCH runoff from the creeks & canals.
The runoff contains nitrates/nitrites from lawn fertilizer and other chemicals in the sewers. Since algae is a plant, it grows out of control from all the "plant food" we're letting wash into the water. That's the coffee that we see. Then, when the algae dies too quickly, it uses up too much oxygen in the water as it decomposes. That's the cause of brown tide (which is the next phase that we hope never hits the area).
In addition to the algae, I highly suspect that something else is going on in the area. Nothing for nothing, but have any of you noticed the aweful smell in the area during low-tide on a hot muggy night???
What is that smell??
Locals tell me it's the usual "lowtide" smell that is in every waterfront community. I'm not buying that for a minute.
Seriously, anyone else notice the smell??
The description that Bill gives about it looking like coffee is so true. It's not so much the lack of fresh ocean water as it is TOO MUCH runoff from the creeks & canals.
The runoff contains nitrates/nitrites from lawn fertilizer and other chemicals in the sewers. Since algae is a plant, it grows out of control from all the "plant food" we're letting wash into the water. That's the coffee that we see. Then, when the algae dies too quickly, it uses up too much oxygen in the water as it decomposes. That's the cause of brown tide (which is the next phase that we hope never hits the area).
In addition to the algae, I highly suspect that something else is going on in the area. Nothing for nothing, but have any of you noticed the aweful smell in the area during low-tide on a hot muggy night???
What is that smell??
Locals tell me it's the usual "lowtide" smell that is in every waterfront community. I'm not buying that for a minute.
Seriously, anyone else notice the smell??
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New Inlet?
I've only been ridin the beach in the Smith's Pt area for 10 years or so but in that short timeframe I've seen alot of beach disapear. I honestly get the feeling that another inlet is just one storm away, if you ride the beach you know there's not much between the ocean and the bay in alot of places. You can't run the outer beach from the pavillion to the inlet (must take the Burma Rd) you can see where the waves are beating the crap out of the dunes. New inlet, just wait another season or two, one good storm and you will have your new inlet!
I've only been ridin the beach in the Smith's Pt area for 10 years or so but in that short timeframe I've seen alot of beach disapear. I honestly get the feeling that another inlet is just one storm away, if you ride the beach you know there's not much between the ocean and the bay in alot of places. You can't run the outer beach from the pavillion to the inlet (must take the Burma Rd) you can see where the waves are beating the crap out of the dunes. New inlet, just wait another season or two, one good storm and you will have your new inlet!
Doc, I live in east patchogue near the bay. I have not really noticed any smell, but what I have notices walking up and down the beach the last couple of weeks is the large number of dead blue claws. They are all small, about 1-2" accross the back, and can be found on the beach and rolling around the initial few feet of surf. There is no visual clues as to why they are dead, they look fine. Anyone else see this or have any clue?
Baylover,
Take another look at those blue claws on the beach and you'll notice that they are not dead crabs, but actually just empy shells. Crabs are like snakes; their outer skeleton cannot grow. They grow a new shell underneath and when they are ready, they shed their old shell just like a snake sheds its old skin. This is called "molting".
For the few days following the molt, the crabs are "soft shell".
This is prime growth time for blue claws to molt and it's not uncommon to see hundreds of their shells float up on the beach. Every so often, a good crab molt even fools marine biologists into thinking that there was a major crab die-off. Here is a good article that tells how even scientists are sometimes fooled by a crab molt into thinking that crabs were dying...
http://www.hmsc.orst.edu/odfw/reports/crab_molt.html
The last few years there have been some great blue claw crab population blooms in your area. Each time there is a major molt, people flip out and think that the pesticide spraying is killing the crab population. The truth is, a good molt is a sign of growth, not death.
Keep in mind, clams are their primary food source. Clams love BRACKISH water with low salinity and lots of floating food particles in the water (what you and I would consider "dirty water"). When the clam population increases, so does the blue claw crabs.
The second major food supply of the blue claws is the young, old sick & weak. Crabs are "opportunist" feeders. They'll play the roll of the scavenger, the hunter, the stalker... whatever works at any given moment. If the water quality is poor or the oxygen levels drop and fish begin to weaken and/or die, the blue claws will benefit.
Scratcher;
Is the sewer treatment plant still pumping waste into the Patchogue river? If not, when did it stop? Either way, that might explain the smell in the Patchogue area. But what about Sayville?
Take another look at those blue claws on the beach and you'll notice that they are not dead crabs, but actually just empy shells. Crabs are like snakes; their outer skeleton cannot grow. They grow a new shell underneath and when they are ready, they shed their old shell just like a snake sheds its old skin. This is called "molting".
For the few days following the molt, the crabs are "soft shell".
This is prime growth time for blue claws to molt and it's not uncommon to see hundreds of their shells float up on the beach. Every so often, a good crab molt even fools marine biologists into thinking that there was a major crab die-off. Here is a good article that tells how even scientists are sometimes fooled by a crab molt into thinking that crabs were dying...
http://www.hmsc.orst.edu/odfw/reports/crab_molt.html
The last few years there have been some great blue claw crab population blooms in your area. Each time there is a major molt, people flip out and think that the pesticide spraying is killing the crab population. The truth is, a good molt is a sign of growth, not death.
Keep in mind, clams are their primary food source. Clams love BRACKISH water with low salinity and lots of floating food particles in the water (what you and I would consider "dirty water"). When the clam population increases, so does the blue claw crabs.
The second major food supply of the blue claws is the young, old sick & weak. Crabs are "opportunist" feeders. They'll play the roll of the scavenger, the hunter, the stalker... whatever works at any given moment. If the water quality is poor or the oxygen levels drop and fish begin to weaken and/or die, the blue claws will benefit.
Scratcher;
Is the sewer treatment plant still pumping waste into the Patchogue river? If not, when did it stop? Either way, that might explain the smell in the Patchogue area. But what about Sayville?
Doctorfish: This is from a South Shore Estuary Reserve Document:
The plant was built in 1951 and updated in 1987. Currently, it operates under the terms of a permit addressing fifteen parameters. From 1990 to 1995, exceedences occurred for five of these parameters, as follows: total suspended solids, with two exceedences; settleable solids with one exceedence; total residual chlorine, with twenty exceedences; BOD, 5-day percent removal, with two exceedences; and suspended solids percent removal, with fourteen exceedences. All chlorine, settleable solids, and BOD exceedences occurred in 1990, as did all but two of the suspended solids exceedences. Thus, the only more recent exceedences are two each for total suspended solids and solids removal.
From 1997 through 1999, there were exceedences of five parameters. On two occasions, the pH readings, at 5.6 and 5.8, fell below the permit minimum of 6.0 On one occasion, total suspended solids levels grossly exceeded permit levels, with a 30 day average load of 282 lbs/day versus the permit level of 125, a 7 day average loading of 518 lbs versus a permit level of 188, and comparable exceedences of the concentrations permitted. Settleable solids levels also exceeded the 0.3 ml/l permit level on three occasions, with readings of 0.5, 0.8, and 0.9 ml/l. On two occasions, the 45% suspended solids removal level was not reached, with solids removal only reaching 22.7 and 41 per cent. Finally, on one occasion the carbonaceous oxygen demand removal rate of 73.5% was not reached, achieving only a 65.7% reduction.
The plant was built in 1951 and updated in 1987. Currently, it operates under the terms of a permit addressing fifteen parameters. From 1990 to 1995, exceedences occurred for five of these parameters, as follows: total suspended solids, with two exceedences; settleable solids with one exceedence; total residual chlorine, with twenty exceedences; BOD, 5-day percent removal, with two exceedences; and suspended solids percent removal, with fourteen exceedences. All chlorine, settleable solids, and BOD exceedences occurred in 1990, as did all but two of the suspended solids exceedences. Thus, the only more recent exceedences are two each for total suspended solids and solids removal.
From 1997 through 1999, there were exceedences of five parameters. On two occasions, the pH readings, at 5.6 and 5.8, fell below the permit minimum of 6.0 On one occasion, total suspended solids levels grossly exceeded permit levels, with a 30 day average load of 282 lbs/day versus the permit level of 125, a 7 day average loading of 518 lbs versus a permit level of 188, and comparable exceedences of the concentrations permitted. Settleable solids levels also exceeded the 0.3 ml/l permit level on three occasions, with readings of 0.5, 0.8, and 0.9 ml/l. On two occasions, the 45% suspended solids removal level was not reached, with solids removal only reaching 22.7 and 41 per cent. Finally, on one occasion the carbonaceous oxygen demand removal rate of 73.5% was not reached, achieving only a 65.7% reduction.
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