Went out 2x last week, & both times I had to get out of the way of this big dragger that went right through the middle of people fishing in there boats. My buddie went out last fri. & said it happened to him too. He called the C.G. & they said he called too late. Is this legal? Or does he know somebody? He was well inside of a 1/2 mile of the beach, in broad daylight.
Dragging inside of bouy 11 @ Pot. Jeff
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Some one who reads your post should know for sure if it's legal or not. If it is illegal, you really should report it to the DEC, and get your friends too also. And then just hope that the authorities are aggressive enough to persue the boat. Get his numbers and name, and post it here, if the moderator deems it allowable.
That was a fluke boat you saw. Here is the official boundry for that area;
"Within one-half mile of the shore between an imaginary line extend-
ing north from Crane Neck Point and an imaginary line extending north
from the shore intersect of the Riverhead-Brookhaven town line near
Wading River, including all bays, harbors and tributaries landward ther-
eof, including Port Jefferson Harbor, Conscience Bay, Setauket Harbor
and Mount Sinai Harbor."
If I had to guess, I would say that it was probably one of the boats out of Mattituck. The Coast Guard is not responsible for actively enforcing fishing boundaries. Your best bet is to contact DEC in Stonybrook and ask them for the cell phone number of the officer responsible for the Port Jeff area. Then, you can contact him/her as soon as you observe what you beleive to be illegal activity.
"Within one-half mile of the shore between an imaginary line extend-
ing north from Crane Neck Point and an imaginary line extending north
from the shore intersect of the Riverhead-Brookhaven town line near
Wading River, including all bays, harbors and tributaries landward ther-
eof, including Port Jefferson Harbor, Conscience Bay, Setauket Harbor
and Mount Sinai Harbor."
If I had to guess, I would say that it was probably one of the boats out of Mattituck. The Coast Guard is not responsible for actively enforcing fishing boundaries. Your best bet is to contact DEC in Stonybrook and ask them for the cell phone number of the officer responsible for the Port Jeff area. Then, you can contact him/her as soon as you observe what you beleive to be illegal activity.
Thanks for the input. I did'nt see a name or numbers, just boats gettin out of the way. Seems pretty lousy that he could drag even 1/2 mile ( which he definately was'nt) in the middle of all the rec. people fishing. Its hard enough to get keepers. It would be nice to see this guy get stopped & boarded like I've seen so many others, including myself. Its gotta be hurting the area. I will be prepared next time with a camera & look for a name or numbers. I don't have a radio, but do have a cell. That steel tank piece of crap just dos'nt belong in that close scraping, killing & sucking the life out of our close in sound area. How about they "catch & don't release" him.
Joined
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3,127 Posts
Dragging Scum
Hookin-
Sad to say we have posted this before-There are maybe three of those B*st*rds who drag 11 almost every day-Yes they can drag 11 even though it appears real close to shore.I was there one day talking with the guys on the DEC boat with the dragger in operation-Absolutely legal;WE NEED the LAW CHANGED!!!!!.I even saw the Suffolk cops watching him pull up his nets and follow him around,probably to no avail.These guys have real big ones-they drag right through the fishing fleet with everyone cursing at them.
I wonder if this accounts for the terrible fluke fishing this year,since these guys are relentless
Hookin-
Sad to say we have posted this before-There are maybe three of those B*st*rds who drag 11 almost every day-Yes they can drag 11 even though it appears real close to shore.I was there one day talking with the guys on the DEC boat with the dragger in operation-Absolutely legal;WE NEED the LAW CHANGED!!!!!.I even saw the Suffolk cops watching him pull up his nets and follow him around,probably to no avail.These guys have real big ones-they drag right through the fishing fleet with everyone cursing at them.
I wonder if this accounts for the terrible fluke fishing this year,since these guys are relentless
I don't have a radio, but do have a cell
FYI. a vhf radio is REQUIRED on a boat by the coast guard, it is also a very good idea to have one for safety sakes.
Maybe the coast guard should have given you a ticket or a warning when they boarded you recently.
It is not a good idea to leave the dock without a radio, law or no law. a cell phone is NOT a substitute for a VHF radio.
I would suggest you spend some time properly outfitting your boat, and becoming aware of safe boating skills before i would worry about a dragger.
Correct you boat and yourself before you become a statistic.
FYI. a vhf radio is REQUIRED on a boat by the coast guard, it is also a very good idea to have one for safety sakes.
Maybe the coast guard should have given you a ticket or a warning when they boarded you recently.
It is not a good idea to leave the dock without a radio, law or no law. a cell phone is NOT a substitute for a VHF radio.
I would suggest you spend some time properly outfitting your boat, and becoming aware of safe boating skills before i would worry about a dragger.
Correct you boat and yourself before you become a statistic.
VHF IS NOT REQUIRED BY LAW!!
Sorry Megalodon, although it seems like it should be required, it is not.
Take a lok at this link. As the bottom of the chart indicates, anything with a * is just a recommendation, not a requirment by law. You'd be surprised how many boaters use cell phones, CB's, or no radio at all. Here is the link;
http://www.uscgboating.org/reg/reg_fr_safetyTips3.asp
Sorry Megalodon, although it seems like it should be required, it is not.
Take a lok at this link. As the bottom of the chart indicates, anything with a * is just a recommendation, not a requirment by law. You'd be surprised how many boaters use cell phones, CB's, or no radio at all. Here is the link;
http://www.uscgboating.org/reg/reg_fr_safetyTips3.asp
About dragging through.........
I've heard a coupla times now, about a dragger doing his thing THROUGH a group of boats......is there a law that governs such action? I mean, isn't that presenting a danger to the boats that he is dragging through? Does the dragger have the right to figuratively say, "get out of my way, I'm coming through", or does he have to yield for safety's sake?
Is this (the law) in writing anywhere?
I've heard a coupla times now, about a dragger doing his thing THROUGH a group of boats......is there a law that governs such action? I mean, isn't that presenting a danger to the boats that he is dragging through? Does the dragger have the right to figuratively say, "get out of my way, I'm coming through", or does he have to yield for safety's sake?
Is this (the law) in writing anywhere?
WOW
learn something new everyday !
i have always assumed it was mandatory by the coast guard, part of the safety list they require.
never realized it was optional,
being on the water without a vhf
is like
leaving the house with no pants on.
during a emergency are you going to spend 5 minutes trying to reach the coast guard with a cell phone, or pick up the vhf and raise in them in seconds.
the last place i would look cut corners to save a few dollars is on safety equipment.
learn something new everyday !
i have always assumed it was mandatory by the coast guard, part of the safety list they require.
never realized it was optional,
being on the water without a vhf
is like
leaving the house with no pants on.
during a emergency are you going to spend 5 minutes trying to reach the coast guard with a cell phone, or pick up the vhf and raise in them in seconds.
the last place i would look cut corners to save a few dollars is on safety equipment.
Megalodon,
I totally agree. I was just as shocked as you were when I learned that no communication device of any kind is legally required. The Federal safety equipment law should be amended. Did you look at the other "optional" equipment on the list? For instance, even an ANCHOR isn't required by law!!
I totally agree. I was just as shocked as you were when I learned that no communication device of any kind is legally required. The Federal safety equipment law should be amended. Did you look at the other "optional" equipment on the list? For instance, even an ANCHOR isn't required by law!!
Hey Megalodin, seems you missed the point dude. If all you read was that I don't have a radio, maybe I touched close to home on the real issue. Yea, there are people out there fishing w/o radios. Even people who can't afford boats & use rentals. Sorry I only have a 16' bay boat w/o Loran, fishfinder, key start or a steering wheel. How about you lend me a buck & a 1/4 & I'll git me goodin one. Chill out, stick to the issue & stop lookin to break somebodys chops when you no not what you speak. Peace be with you.
Joined
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1,621 Posts
Dragg'in on through
I has this discussion with DEC officers last year, as stated previously buoy 11 is alot farther off shore than it seems, well past the 1/2 mile point. The DEC officer was explaining they draggers are within their rights to drag that area for Fluke however it was felt they were filling their quota for the day in pounds and offloading their catch and double dipping again. thatt is something we can watch for. If yourr fishing the area in the morning and see a specific boat then again later thatt afternoon get the DEC on the horn and turn him in. As for dragging right through rec boats last Thursday I has a nice drift west of the buoy in a N to S direction I ran back to repeat the drift and again scored with a few keepers, before I could run back again that dragger ran right through the area, he was heading W to E right between any guys fishing. I guess I don't have to say the next drift did not produce any positive results. I was pissed but knew there was nothing I could do.
I has this discussion with DEC officers last year, as stated previously buoy 11 is alot farther off shore than it seems, well past the 1/2 mile point. The DEC officer was explaining they draggers are within their rights to drag that area for Fluke however it was felt they were filling their quota for the day in pounds and offloading their catch and double dipping again. thatt is something we can watch for. If yourr fishing the area in the morning and see a specific boat then again later thatt afternoon get the DEC on the horn and turn him in. As for dragging right through rec boats last Thursday I has a nice drift west of the buoy in a N to S direction I ran back to repeat the drift and again scored with a few keepers, before I could run back again that dragger ran right through the area, he was heading W to E right between any guys fishing. I guess I don't have to say the next drift did not produce any positive results. I was pissed but knew there was nothing I could do.
THIS is why........
The Commercial fishermen are pissed that we are always chiding them, and they ask why. Look at Loontzer's post. Do we not have a totally legitimate gripe? If we could get some legislation enacted that would outlaw actions such as this, there would be alot more respect for the commercial guys from the recreational anglers. Actions such as these breed deep contempt....and rightfully so!
The Commercial fishermen are pissed that we are always chiding them, and they ask why. Look at Loontzer's post. Do we not have a totally legitimate gripe? If we could get some legislation enacted that would outlaw actions such as this, there would be alot more respect for the commercial guys from the recreational anglers. Actions such as these breed deep contempt....and rightfully so!
Joined
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1,679 Posts
One of the missions of the CG is to protect marine fisheries law.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-o/g-opl/mle/OceanG/OceanGuard.html
Capt. Marc
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-o/g-opl/mle/OceanG/OceanGuard.html
Capt. Marc
Joined
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538 Posts
Dragging inside of buoy 11
Dragging around buoy 11 is legal.
BUT
Rules of the road may dictate that it is illegal for the dragger to force drifting boats out of the way.
Doctor Fish or anybody with knowledge of rules of the road. Need your explanation for the following.
Who has the right of way ? A vessel (dragger) under power or a recreational vessel not under power / drifting ?
Personally, I blame the lack of legislation for failing to manage the resources and creating the tension that exists between commercial and recreational fishermem.
I also blame the greedy commercial who double dips and strong arms recreational fishermen. You know who you are. Hint: the ones I see moving recreational traps and cutting recreational traps.
Sorry for the scroupulous commercials. You get a bad rap because of the rotten apples.
The best way to alleviate this tension is for both sides to fully adhere to the law (rules of the road).
I don't know who's favor it works to, but if we would just abide by the law a lot of the disrespect and hard feelings could be resolved.
Personaly, I will abide by what the law states.
Dragging around buoy 11 is legal.
BUT
Rules of the road may dictate that it is illegal for the dragger to force drifting boats out of the way.
Doctor Fish or anybody with knowledge of rules of the road. Need your explanation for the following.
Who has the right of way ? A vessel (dragger) under power or a recreational vessel not under power / drifting ?
Personally, I blame the lack of legislation for failing to manage the resources and creating the tension that exists between commercial and recreational fishermem.
I also blame the greedy commercial who double dips and strong arms recreational fishermen. You know who you are. Hint: the ones I see moving recreational traps and cutting recreational traps.
Sorry for the scroupulous commercials. You get a bad rap because of the rotten apples.
The best way to alleviate this tension is for both sides to fully adhere to the law (rules of the road).
I don't know who's favor it works to, but if we would just abide by the law a lot of the disrespect and hard feelings could be resolved.
Personaly, I will abide by what the law states.
Amen to that, Looneytunes
We still need to see the written laws as they apply to this, in order to take credible action.
Some interesting info from the Coast Guard Fisheries Enforcement Strategic Plan that Capt. Marc posted.........
"......The Study also called for a periodic update and review/revalidation of the Commandant's Strategy to address changing fisheries enforcement requirements and customer perceptions
The Plan incorporates significant input from key customers in the fishing industry, as well as NMFS and state law enforcement agencies
To ensure continued alignment with our customers, input will be solicited through OCEAN GUARDIAN revalidation meetings held every four years
The public must continue to see the Coast Guard as the federal agency best suited to provide needed fisheries law enforcement services
Our intention is to protect fisheries resources and help ensure a level playing field for commercial and recreational fishers
Our expertise and depth of experience in maritime law enforcement place us in demand as policy advisors to those developing laws, regulations and international treaties. In this role, we help shape the expectations of our constituents regarding the enforceability of proposed policies and their potential effects on the safety of the mariner
In these areas the Coast Guard works closely with the NOAA Fisheries and the eight Regional Fishery Management Councils (RFMCs) so that enacted management measures are reasonably enforceable.
In this future we would see: Trust and respect for the Coast Guard among all constituents fostered by clear and open communications
Making sure the American public understands the critical role of Coast Guard fisheries law enforcement is a vital part of securing the resources and capabilities needed to meet our challenges in the future
( here's a tidbit I didn't know before.....explains alot!).......Commercial and recreational fisheries annually contribute an estimated $24 billion and $10 billion, respectively, to the U.S. economy
...Another interesting find.check this out: http://www.ccany.org/pressrelease20.cfm
OCEAN GUARDIAN will be reviewed annually and the goals, objectives and performance targets revised as appropriate
The commercial fishing industry alone has an economic impact of more than $24 billion to the United States, employing tens of thousands of people and providing a food source for millions of Americans. To protect these valuable resources, prudent management and effective enforcement action are necessary
The increasing fishing power of the 110,000 commercial fishing vessels in the U.S. far exceeds the fish stocks' capabilities to reproduce
It is up to the Coast Guard to provide the at-sea enforcement crucial to the success of these new and existing fishery management plans
The bottom line is, as the availability of fishery resources declines, and the demand for them increases, there will be greater pressure exerted to illegally harvest fish. Wherever enforcement is perceived as lacking, illegal fishing is likely to occur. All this adds up to a much greater demand for Coast Guard fisheries enforcement services.
Because the vast majority of domestic fisheries violations are civil, not criminal, offenses, they are handled through a civil penalty process. The Coast Guard focuses enforcement efforts on those violations that potentially have a significant impact on the resource, or those that would place the violator at a substantial economic advantage over others who are in compliance
The broad spectrum of the Coast Guard's living marine resources constituency includes resource users, resource managers, enforcement organizations, non-governmental organizations, other interested parties, and the general public
Coast Guard efforts at understanding our constituency's needs are rooted in clear, open and frequent two-way communication. Types of actions may include:
*Periodic workshops with resource users, resource managers, and enforcement organizations
*Participation in industry trade shows in an educational capacity presenting the Coast Guard mission in fisheries law enforcement, the latest in regulations and proposed rules, and being a listening post for industry trends, interests and concerns
Many factors contribute to the successful accomplishment of this initiative. Among them are balanced regulations, accurate and timely data on fishing and other activities of interest......"
From what I surmise from reading this, it doesn't directly address the law as it applies to the obnoxious practice of dragging through a group of angler's boats, but it does imply that it would be beneficial for us to organize to the point where we should ALL call the regional Coast Guard numbers, Park Police, and Fisheries Managers, so that they know we are serious! Kinda reminds me of street repairs, and other domestic complaints - one person, or only a few calling will not get action.....flooding them with calls gets them off thier butts!
Perhaps, not an easy thing to do.....but if we want even a CHANCE at getting results, we could make our at stand - RIGHT HERE!
We still need to see the written laws as they apply to this, in order to take credible action.
Some interesting info from the Coast Guard Fisheries Enforcement Strategic Plan that Capt. Marc posted.........
"......The Study also called for a periodic update and review/revalidation of the Commandant's Strategy to address changing fisheries enforcement requirements and customer perceptions
The Plan incorporates significant input from key customers in the fishing industry, as well as NMFS and state law enforcement agencies
To ensure continued alignment with our customers, input will be solicited through OCEAN GUARDIAN revalidation meetings held every four years
The public must continue to see the Coast Guard as the federal agency best suited to provide needed fisheries law enforcement services
Our intention is to protect fisheries resources and help ensure a level playing field for commercial and recreational fishers
Our expertise and depth of experience in maritime law enforcement place us in demand as policy advisors to those developing laws, regulations and international treaties. In this role, we help shape the expectations of our constituents regarding the enforceability of proposed policies and their potential effects on the safety of the mariner
In these areas the Coast Guard works closely with the NOAA Fisheries and the eight Regional Fishery Management Councils (RFMCs) so that enacted management measures are reasonably enforceable.
In this future we would see: Trust and respect for the Coast Guard among all constituents fostered by clear and open communications
Making sure the American public understands the critical role of Coast Guard fisheries law enforcement is a vital part of securing the resources and capabilities needed to meet our challenges in the future
( here's a tidbit I didn't know before.....explains alot!).......Commercial and recreational fisheries annually contribute an estimated $24 billion and $10 billion, respectively, to the U.S. economy
...Another interesting find.check this out: http://www.ccany.org/pressrelease20.cfm
OCEAN GUARDIAN will be reviewed annually and the goals, objectives and performance targets revised as appropriate
The commercial fishing industry alone has an economic impact of more than $24 billion to the United States, employing tens of thousands of people and providing a food source for millions of Americans. To protect these valuable resources, prudent management and effective enforcement action are necessary
The increasing fishing power of the 110,000 commercial fishing vessels in the U.S. far exceeds the fish stocks' capabilities to reproduce
It is up to the Coast Guard to provide the at-sea enforcement crucial to the success of these new and existing fishery management plans
The bottom line is, as the availability of fishery resources declines, and the demand for them increases, there will be greater pressure exerted to illegally harvest fish. Wherever enforcement is perceived as lacking, illegal fishing is likely to occur. All this adds up to a much greater demand for Coast Guard fisheries enforcement services.
Because the vast majority of domestic fisheries violations are civil, not criminal, offenses, they are handled through a civil penalty process. The Coast Guard focuses enforcement efforts on those violations that potentially have a significant impact on the resource, or those that would place the violator at a substantial economic advantage over others who are in compliance
The broad spectrum of the Coast Guard's living marine resources constituency includes resource users, resource managers, enforcement organizations, non-governmental organizations, other interested parties, and the general public
Coast Guard efforts at understanding our constituency's needs are rooted in clear, open and frequent two-way communication. Types of actions may include:
*Periodic workshops with resource users, resource managers, and enforcement organizations
*Participation in industry trade shows in an educational capacity presenting the Coast Guard mission in fisheries law enforcement, the latest in regulations and proposed rules, and being a listening post for industry trends, interests and concerns
Many factors contribute to the successful accomplishment of this initiative. Among them are balanced regulations, accurate and timely data on fishing and other activities of interest......"
From what I surmise from reading this, it doesn't directly address the law as it applies to the obnoxious practice of dragging through a group of angler's boats, but it does imply that it would be beneficial for us to organize to the point where we should ALL call the regional Coast Guard numbers, Park Police, and Fisheries Managers, so that they know we are serious! Kinda reminds me of street repairs, and other domestic complaints - one person, or only a few calling will not get action.....flooding them with calls gets them off thier butts!
Perhaps, not an easy thing to do.....but if we want even a CHANCE at getting results, we could make our at stand - RIGHT HERE!
1 - 20 of 84 Posts
