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Dogfish article in Portland Press herald
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How can we (those who know what's going on) explain to those who think that dogfish are god's gift to the world, that they most certainly will not go extinct if the quotas are changes such that dogs will be commercially targeted?
Ocean Conservancy!
These guys comments are whacked! You can't blame the slow recovery of cod on dogfish?? As my cousin Charles Felch put it if you put 3 times as many coyotes in the woods then deer and then say well its not the coyotes slowing down the deer population but the hunters!! I say we try to stop organizations like Ocean Conservancy from getting our tax dollars with Federal grants! Hit them where it hurts!
These guys comments are whacked! You can't blame the slow recovery of cod on dogfish?? As my cousin Charles Felch put it if you put 3 times as many coyotes in the woods then deer and then say well its not the coyotes slowing down the deer population but the hunters!! I say we try to stop organizations like Ocean Conservancy from getting our tax dollars with Federal grants! Hit them where it hurts!
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NilsS wrote:
Tom Bell overlooked the fact that the commercial dogfish fishery was developed, as were the export markets, with federal support, federal dollars and federal encouragement, which seems to me to be kind of significant.
Definitely is significant
Tom Bell overlooked the fact that the commercial dogfish fishery was developed, as were the export markets, with federal support, federal dollars and federal encouragement, which seems to me to be kind of significant.
Definitely is significant
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MM-
That comment he makes is interesting mostly because thats the only time I have ever heard someone say something like that. Makes me wonder how much that guy actually fishes for tuna in the GOM. I know I have never heard of him and its not like there are that many guys going hard here anymore. My guess is that if you were to ask that guy about the trawlers he would likely agree they are a huge problem... that is, if he spends anytime at all on the water...
In general, the dogs eat too much of everything but the biggest problem they cause for the tuna fleet is that they do not allow guys to get lines in the water. Thats the problem that is killing the fleet the most. You literally cannot get a line in the water without getting dogged up, no matter where you go or when. Its a plague...plain and simple.
The amount of herring dogs eat is huge- along with the amount of other species they eat too- but thats the first guy I have ever heard shift all the blame on dogs and not on the MW boats. If it was dogs, there should have been less herring around last year than ever before (since there was more dogs than ever before) but there was more than in the previous 5-10 years, no doubt because of the MW ban. Each to his own, I guess.
This post edited by twofinbluna 11:32 PM 04/08/2008
That comment he makes is interesting mostly because thats the only time I have ever heard someone say something like that. Makes me wonder how much that guy actually fishes for tuna in the GOM. I know I have never heard of him and its not like there are that many guys going hard here anymore. My guess is that if you were to ask that guy about the trawlers he would likely agree they are a huge problem... that is, if he spends anytime at all on the water...
In general, the dogs eat too much of everything but the biggest problem they cause for the tuna fleet is that they do not allow guys to get lines in the water. Thats the problem that is killing the fleet the most. You literally cannot get a line in the water without getting dogged up, no matter where you go or when. Its a plague...plain and simple.
The amount of herring dogs eat is huge- along with the amount of other species they eat too- but thats the first guy I have ever heard shift all the blame on dogs and not on the MW boats. If it was dogs, there should have been less herring around last year than ever before (since there was more dogs than ever before) but there was more than in the previous 5-10 years, no doubt because of the MW ban. Each to his own, I guess.
This post edited by twofinbluna 11:32 PM 04/08/2008
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Another DECADE?
From the article:
"Conservationists, though, say the dogfish population is not as robust as it may appear and argue that the restrictions should remain until the stock is fully rebuilt, which could take another decade."
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This post edited by twofinbluna 11:26 PM 04/08/2008
From the article:
"Conservationists, though, say the dogfish population is not as robust as it may appear and argue that the restrictions should remain until the stock is fully rebuilt, which could take another decade."
This post edited by twofinbluna 11:26 PM 04/08/2008
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The comment that stuck me the most was the ratio of male to females of 7 to 1....
That is the part they will be pushing to keep the restrictions on harvesting.
I did not know that the female took so long to before it could breed. it had some interesting notes that I had not heard before...
That is the part they will be pushing to keep the restrictions on harvesting.
I did not know that the female took so long to before it could breed. it had some interesting notes that I had not heard before...
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What I don't understand is that if the commercial guys could target just the females when they fished before the effective closure, why not just open up the commercial season on the males? The males may not be worth as much s the females, but I'm sure some guys would fish for them.
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I always look to see what gender dogs we are catching (R&R or Otter Trawl) because of the assertion their aren't enough females. Granted I only fish the Montauk / Block Island areas and sometimes the south shore beaches as far west as Shinne**** and as far off as Block Canyon, but I can not agree w/ the assertion there is a lack of females.
Do you guys see a lack of females in your areas?
Do you guys see a lack of females in your areas?
Mike -
The DF guys weren't catching females, they were catching the bigger fish, which happen to be female. You can use mesh size to keep out the little fish, not to keep out the big fish.
Ref the male/female ratio, I've heard the same thing, but we all know how much "anecdotal" information counts.
The DF guys weren't catching females, they were catching the bigger fish, which happen to be female. You can use mesh size to keep out the little fish, not to keep out the big fish.
Ref the male/female ratio, I've heard the same thing, but we all know how much "anecdotal" information counts.
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NilsS wrote:
Mike -
The DF guys weren't catching females, they were catching the bigger fish, which happen to be female. You can use mesh size to keep out the little fish, not to keep out the big fish.
Ref the male/female ratio, I've heard the same thing, but we all know how much "anecdotal" information counts.
Nils,
I had read somewhere that the guys had figured out that the males and females school sperately and then they specificall targetd the schools of females. If they can do that, then they can specifically target the schools of males. I think the scientists have proved that the sexes school seperately for most of the year, so it makes sense. If you do a short set and come up with all females, then move. If you get all males do a long tow and load the boat!
Mike -
The DF guys weren't catching females, they were catching the bigger fish, which happen to be female. You can use mesh size to keep out the little fish, not to keep out the big fish.
Ref the male/female ratio, I've heard the same thing, but we all know how much "anecdotal" information counts.
Nils,
I had read somewhere that the guys had figured out that the males and females school sperately and then they specificall targetd the schools of females. If they can do that, then they can specifically target the schools of males. I think the scientists have proved that the sexes school seperately for most of the year, so it makes sense. If you do a short set and come up with all females, then move. If you get all males do a long tow and load the boat!
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Apparently there is no market for the smaller male dogfish. They only become commercially "valuable" when they hit three feet in length, or so I've been told. At present, I'm not sure who'd buy loads of dogs even if the feds open them up for 10,000lb per trip, as all the processors have retooled for different species.
And a couple of interesting facts I don't get tired of posting:
1) I've seen plenty of sex and size mixed schools of dogfish the last few summers in GOM.
2) The following info came from a PhD student doing fishery survey on a party boat: Apparently doggies are aged by counting the circles on their spines, just like one would age a tree by looking at its stump. Except that those spines will grow back if broken off, and there is no real proof that each circle equals a year, so this whole method which gave us 45 year old dogs may very well be based on false assumptions.
And a couple of interesting facts I don't get tired of posting:
1) I've seen plenty of sex and size mixed schools of dogfish the last few summers in GOM.
2) The following info came from a PhD student doing fishery survey on a party boat: Apparently doggies are aged by counting the circles on their spines, just like one would age a tree by looking at its stump. Except that those spines will grow back if broken off, and there is no real proof that each circle equals a year, so this whole method which gave us 45 year old dogs may very well be based on false assumptions.
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FishWisher wrote:
Apparently there is no market for the smaller male dogfish. They only become commercially "valuable" when they hit three feet in length, or so I've been told. At present, I'm not sure who'd buy loads of dogs even if the feds open them up for 10,000lb per trip, as all the processors have retooled for different species.
The processing lines can be torn down and set-up in relativelyt little time. I've heard that the processors are unwilling to do it for less than a certain poundage of fish. Sometimes I hear 1,000 5,000, or 10,000 pounds, but whatever it is the number is far more that the boats are allowed.
FishWisher wrote:
And a couple of interesting facts I don't get tired of posting:
1) I've seen plenty of sex and size mixed schools of dogfish the last few summers in GOM.
2) The following info came from a PhD student doing fishery survey on a party boat: Apparently doggies are aged by counting the circles on their spines, just like one would age a tree by looking at its stump. Except that those spines will grow back if broken off, and there is no real proof that each circle equals a year, so this whole method which gave us 45 year old dogs may very well be based on false assumptions.
Good info, the mixing of sexes is not inconsistent with what I posted as they do have to mix at some point in order to mate! I wouls assume (always dangerous) that what what you are seeing is happeneing during the mating season.
Apparently there is no market for the smaller male dogfish. They only become commercially "valuable" when they hit three feet in length, or so I've been told. At present, I'm not sure who'd buy loads of dogs even if the feds open them up for 10,000lb per trip, as all the processors have retooled for different species.
The processing lines can be torn down and set-up in relativelyt little time. I've heard that the processors are unwilling to do it for less than a certain poundage of fish. Sometimes I hear 1,000 5,000, or 10,000 pounds, but whatever it is the number is far more that the boats are allowed.
FishWisher wrote:
And a couple of interesting facts I don't get tired of posting:
1) I've seen plenty of sex and size mixed schools of dogfish the last few summers in GOM.
2) The following info came from a PhD student doing fishery survey on a party boat: Apparently doggies are aged by counting the circles on their spines, just like one would age a tree by looking at its stump. Except that those spines will grow back if broken off, and there is no real proof that each circle equals a year, so this whole method which gave us 45 year old dogs may very well be based on false assumptions.
Good info, the mixing of sexes is not inconsistent with what I posted as they do have to mix at some point in order to mate! I wouls assume (always dangerous) that what what you are seeing is happeneing during the mating season.
Another dogfish question
Mike -
Thanks for that info.
Everyone/anyone -
Much of the "save the dogfish" campaign is based on their low fecundity - reportedly less than a dozen pups every two years. However, I've never been able to find out whether they incubate only one batch of eggs at a time or can have two or more batches going at once, i.e. a female with a bunch of ready to poop out pups and a bunch of recently fertilized eggs at the same time. If this were the case, their fecundity would be much greater than what it is assumed to be.
Mike -
Thanks for that info.
Everyone/anyone -
Much of the "save the dogfish" campaign is based on their low fecundity - reportedly less than a dozen pups every two years. However, I've never been able to find out whether they incubate only one batch of eggs at a time or can have two or more batches going at once, i.e. a female with a bunch of ready to poop out pups and a bunch of recently fertilized eggs at the same time. If this were the case, their fecundity would be much greater than what it is assumed to be.
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According to this website Spiny Dogfisg ecology The gestation period is 18 to 24 months and they pup every three years (36 months) so it would appear that they do not bear eggs while they are carrying young.
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