[Hooper]

New DEC emergency regs on American Shad eliminate the public from the shad fishery but allow commercial harvest to continue. This ground breaking and disturbing action allocates 100% of the catch to a mere handful of commercials. This is a public resource and the public has been excluded. If the American Shad is really in trouble just shut it down for everyone. What's next....fluke??

The commercial shad fishery is little more than a sham that permits a privleged few to harvest 45,000 pounds of striped bass as a "bycatch" (That number according to Hungry Jack). Total commercial harvest of shad is just 15,000 fish. It's pretty obvious it's not about the shad, it's about the striped bass bycatch. Closing the shad fishery would also eliminate the bycatch.

Stripers Forever has more info on the situation. Letting the DEC shut the public out of any fishery while still permitting commercial harvest shouldn't be tolerated. Letters to the DEC and Governor are posted. Everyone can participate since shad is a migratory species.

Stripers Forever

http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I00FB5EA2

http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/Stripers_BBoard/I00FB5EA2

Hooper

 

[HungryJack]

Hooper wrote:
The commercial shad fishery is little more than a sham that permits a privleged few to harvest 45,000 pounds of striped bass as a "bycatch" (That number according to Hungry Jack). Total commercial harvest of shad is just 15,000 fish.

It's pretty obvious it's not about the shad, it's about the striped bass bycatch.
I never said they keep the Striped Bass, its by catch,
which means its tossed back over the side.

Thus my comment about rant for the day
Now, let it all out

Its about a lifestyle for a few old men,
and a revenue source for some towns upstate.

45k pounds less of striper's in the world makes about zero difference.

Maybe letting a few old guys live out their last remaining years in peace does.

 

[PhilT]

HJ caught more fishermen the last 24 hours than the netters caught shad.

 

[Hooper]

Hungry Jack is a reliable source of good info. His opinions and conclusions are just that ...his opinions and his conclusions. I only mentioned him as the source of the 45,000 pound figure since I don't have that info on my own. He was kind enough to post it in another thread.

I believe that in some fisheries there is a permissable level of "bycatch" that can be kept and sold. I don't know if the shad fishery is one of them but there was such an argument offered by that commercial sector at one point. If I'm wrong then I stand corrected.

I actually agree with HJ about the plight of a few guys and whole communities whose way of life is being threatened. Most likely due to inept regulators, absurd data samples, the greed that permeates much of the industry and the political system that supports it.

The real point of this post was the DEC action that excludes the public from a public resource. They are close to this with fluke and fears are running that it may be closed in 2009. I don't think there's a chance of that however. But new regs will continue to shorten seasons, reduce bag limits and increase minimum size.

Hooper

 

[MakoMike]

Hooper wrote:
Hungry Jack is a reliable source of good info. His opinions and conclusions are just that ...his opinions and his conclusions. I only mentioned him as the source of the 45,000 pound figure since I don't have that info on my own. He was kind enough to post it in another thread.

I believe that in some fisheries there is a permissable level of "bycatch" that can be kept and sold. I don't know if the shad fishery is one of them but there was such an argument offered by that commercial sector at one point. If I'm wrong then I stand corrected.

I actually agree with HJ about the plight of a few guys and whole communities whose way of life is being threatened. Most likely due to inept regulators, absurd data samples, the greed that permeates much of the industry and the political system that supports it.

The real point of this post was the DEC action that excludes the public from a public resource. They are close to this with fluke and fears are running that it may be closed in 2009. I don't think there's a chance of that however. But new regs will continue to shorten seasons, reduce bag limits and increase minimum size.

Hooper

Consider yourself corrected, they can't saell any of those "bycatch" stripers. There are several species of fish coastwide that can only be caught by commercial fishermen in the majority of their range. Wreckfish comes immediately to mind.

 

[Hooper]

Mike,

Just so we are clear on this, the term "bycatch" does NOT automatically mean that those fish must be tossed over the side. In some fisheries a limited amount of "bycatch" can be retained and sold.

I don't know with certainty what the striped bass bycatch situation is in the Hudson. Regarding the retention of bycatch I'll assume you're correct as it pertains to HR shad.

The issue is denial of public access to a public resource while permitting commercial exploitation.

Wreckfish?

Hooper

 

[loligo]

Hooper wrote:

Just so we are clear on this, .....

The issue is denial of public exploitation of a public resource while continuing commercial access.

That's what you meant - isn't it?

This post edited by loligo 03:16 PM 03/18/2008

 

[guest]

Hooper wrote:
Mike,

Just so we are clear on this, the term "bycatch" does NOT automatically mean that those fish must be tossed over the side. In some fisheries a limited amount of "bycatch" can be retained and sold.

I don't know with certainty what the striped bass bycatch situation is in the Hudson. Regarding the retention of bycatch I'll assume you're correct as it pertains to HR shad.

The issue is denial of public access to a public resource while permitting commercial exploitation.

Wreckfish?

Hooper

bycatch by definition is discarded fish. the correct term for retained non-target fish is "incidental" catch.

I don't think any stripers can be retained from the hudson due to PCBs as I recall.

Both rec and com fishermen are the "public"

 

[loligo]

guest wrote:


bycatch by definition is discarded fish. the correct term for retained non-target fish is "incidental" catch.




Well- we call scup and tautog bycatch, but we can retain them here in MA, even though they are incidental to our directed fishery/s.

I had always referred to fish other than intended to be called bycatch, regardless of retention or not and referred to throw overs as discards.




This post edited by loligo 03:39 PM 03/18/2008

 

[guest]

wrote:
Bycatch: "fish which are harvested in a fishery, but which are not sold or kept for personal use, and includes economic discards and regulatory discards. Such term does not include fish released alive under a recreational catch and release fishery management program" ?Magnuson-Stevens Act (MSA) Section 3(2) (1996)

 

[Hooper]

From the Virginia Marine Resources Commission 4 VAC 20-530-31. Bycatch fishery.

Note the references to By-Catch Permit, by-catch fishery, and selling his by-catch

Any registered commercial fisherman meeting the following conditions shall be eligible to participate in the American shad by-catch fishery in the Spawning Reaches By-catch Area: 1) the registered commercial fisherman shall have reported striped bass harvest from the Spawning Reaches By-catch Area during the months of February and March in at least 5 years during the 1996-2005 period. 2) the registered commercial fisherman shall apply for a VMRC American Shad Spawning Reaches By-Catch Permit and possess that permit while fishing, landing, or selling his by-catch of American shad;....

This defines the terms for the retention of by-catch, so it should be apparent that by-catch doesn't always mean "tossed over the side" does it?

Hooper

This post edited by Hooper 04:16 PM 03/18/2008

 

[MakoMike]

The fact is that according to NY state regulation striped bass may only be sold if they are caught east of a line which is roughly around Debs inlet. No stripers caught in the Hudson river can be sold. So whether they are "bycatch" or "incidental" catch is only a game of semantics.

 

[Belistiner]

Hey Mike,
Are you certain that wreckfish is a commercial only fish?

 

[MakoMike]

Belistiner wrote:
Hey Mike,
Are you certain that wreckfish is a commercial only fish?


Yeah, but that rule doesn't apply up here, I think the line is around VA, anywhere south of that its a commercial only apecies.

 

[CaptPaul]

Hooper wrote:
From the Virginia Marine Resources Commission 4 VAC 20-530-31. Bycatch fishery.

Note the references to By-Catch Permit, by-catch fishery, and selling his by-catch

Any registered commercial fisherman meeting the following conditions shall be eligible to participate in the American shad by-catch fishery in the Spawning Reaches By-catch Area: 1) the registered commercial fisherman shall have reported striped bass harvest from the Spawning Reaches By-catch Area during the months of February and March in at least 5 years during the 1996-2005 period. 2) the registered commercial fisherman shall apply for a VMRC American Shad Spawning Reaches By-Catch Permit and possess that permit while fishing, landing, or selling his by-catch of American shad;....

This defines the terms for the retention of by-catch, so it should be apparent that by-catch doesn't always mean "tossed over the side" does it?

Hooper
Actually, the fact that you need a special permit to retain and sell the by-catch, means that the by-catch is not retainable under normal conditions.

Paul

 

[WaterAye]

When I would talk to these guys (rivermen) their biggest gripe(apart from the moratorium on the harvest of striped bass and sturgeon) was the volume of striped bass in the river. Going back to the early nineties these guys felt there was too many stripers in the river. Not that they were just a PITA for the fishermen, but that nets which caught shad would have them shaken out by all the bass. They felt the river was unbalanced with all the stripers which had been infused into the river system.

Ending recreational access to shad makes about as much sense as gamefish status for striped bass....zero.

 

[twofinbluna]

There are few things in the fishery management world that drive me more nuts than the idea of gamefish status for stripers. Lets not even get into that discussion here, have to argue that crap too much on other sites!

 

[HungryJack]

twofinbluna wrote:
There are few things in the fishery management world that drive me more nuts
than the idea of gamefish status for stripers.
Gamefish status for BFT ?

 

[loligo]

HungryJack wrote:
twofinbluna wrote:
There are few things in the fishery management world that drive me more nuts
than the idea of gamefish status for stripers.
Gamefish status for BFT ?

Don't we already have that?? Most of the GC permits are held by folks who aren't filing a schedule C. It's what I like to call- a subsidized hobby.

 

[MakoMike]

loligo wrote:
Don't we already have that?? Most of the GC permits are held by folks who aren't filing a schedule C. It's what I like to call- a subsidized hobby.


And you know this how?