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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
iv'e heard of carbon build up in the cylinders from a couple people who "de- -carbonize there outboards"
what is this?
what does it do ?
should i do it?
iv'e got twin 1990 yamaha 250's that smoke a little on a cold start but they run good tons of power and no smoke when there warm
 

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de-carbonizing an outboard.......

A friend of mine has an 87 yamaha 200 hp. He not only decarbonizes ,but also use?s Yamaha?s gas treatment. To much carbon In the cylinders can cause the rings to Stick which can cause engine damage.Personally, I would do the same if I had an outboard motor.
 

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Fishingfreak,
When I ran outboards, twin 1989 140's (the johnson bros). I used to de-carb every 50 hours or so. If the carbon builds up on the rings it will block the lubrication in that area a cause scoring of the cylider wall, fiction and heat and well you know the rest. I believe I've read that carbon buil up is the number one cause of two stroke failure. I noticed every time that I de-carbed plenty of carbon coming out of the exhaust. Never had any problems.I know alot of people who use the de-carb in their fuel.I preferred the direct spray in. Give It a try it can't hurt.
Dave
 

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here's an excelent article a friend had published on decarb

Tip for the Week
Do-It-Yourself Engine Tip; A Simple and Cost Effective Way to De-Carbon an Outboard
By Capt. Bob Dunkelberger [email protected]
This works for Carbed, EFI, Ficht, HPDI, Opti-max and even 4-strokes... and should be administered after every 50-60 hours of use.
First you need a separate small fuel tank. One of those 3-gallon red Tempos works well or an empty gallon milk jug in a pinch, but it might be a bit messier.
I use Seafoam over the OEM (original equipment manufacturer) stuff like OMC Engine Tuner or Mercury Power Tune. Note: in the last few years they changed the formula and you have to let them sit up 12 hours. Who's got time for that? Seafoam does the job in 15 minutes and can be purchased from NAPA, Car Quest or other auto stores.
You'll need 3/4 gallon of gasoline and one 16oz can of Seafoam for each engine. Don't forget to add 3oz of oil if you are pre-mixing in a carbed engine. Use a 3 ft piece of fuel hose off the small tank. Connect this tank to your engine by pulling off the main tank fuel hose from the intake side of your water separating fuel filter and plug the hose off the small tank onto that fitting. Or you can separate the fuel line on the tank side primer ball, so you can still use your primer. If your engine has a fuel plug then you will also need a fuel plug on the smaller tank's hose.
Start the engine, let it warm up and start pulling the mix into the engine. You may have to increase the idle to keep it running once she gets loaded with the Seafoam. Run the engine 15 minutes at the dock or just cruising around under 2500 rpm's. Then shut it down and let it sit for another 15 minutes.
Restart the engine; the smoke you see is the carbon burning off. Do the whole thing again and let her sit again for 15 more minutes. If she smokes after the second time do it again.
I've never seen one still smoke after three doses. (I bought a Bronco two years ago that had 95,000 miles on it. When I used Seafoam on it I had the neighbors hanging out of their front doors looking for where the fire was after I started it the first time there so much smoke)
The gallon mix should be just enough to do this 3 times. You don't need a wide-open throttle and you don't need to change the plugs. The plugs are cleaned at the same time as the combustion chambers. My suggestion is that every 50-60hrs is the optimal time to change plugs in most engines.
I cleaned an antique Evinrude once that had a 1/4" of solid carbon on the exhaust chamber walls by running a 1/2 gal of the aforementioned mix through it. Seafoam, a great product, has been around since the 1930's and it's what they used when they were burning straight 4 stroke 40SAE oils in outboards.
For you guys with the 4 stroke outboards? Those engines work 10 times as hard as any auto engine ever will and they too will carbon up. Too many are under the assumption that it's totally the 2 stroke oil that causes the carbon, Wrong... it's also the additives they put in the fuels today. The carbon inhibitors in 2-stroke oil are there for this reason also. Remember when gasoline used to smell like gasoline, today it smells more like bad cologne.
For those guys that like to work the carbon treatment by spraying it down the carbs, Seafoam also comes in spray can called Deep Creep. It's the same stuff under pressure and notes on the can, "Oxygen Sensor Safe". After that, if your engine manufacturer recommends a daily additive treatment then do so. The tank and hose are a one-time purchase and the Seafoam is only costs $5-6.00 per can.
Note: Capt Bob Dunkelberger is a Marine Surveyor in New Jersey. Please feel free to contact him at [email protected] with any questions.
 

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I thought you were a mechanic?

Short and sweet.. my merc will actually start running like the carbs are clogged when it needs a decarb. When I open it up, it will hesitate.. my theory is it is due to intake ports on the cylinders being clogged by carbon. I've rebuilt this engine, and yes, the carbon does build up, mostly on the ports in the cylinders. Sometimes the carbon can cause the rings to stick, killing compression.. I've seen this too, but not on this merc.

After a decarbing, mine allways runs better.. strange, but it works. I need to decarb every 25 hours for steady performance.

For anyone that's reading this - DO NOT decarb or do anything other than run a diesel.

For mid-range 2 & 4-strokes, follow the directions on the can; I like the spray stuff: Warm the engine. Spray into carb throats or provided fitting until it kills engine, or until about half can is gone. Let engine sit for 15 minutes, restart and run at slightly high rpm until crap burns off..

I actually will put some in the cylinders too, and then will turn the engine over to disperse, with the plugs out. It allways makes me wonder though if it could hyrdaulic lock, so I'm carefull when doing it.

Jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
not mechnic leaky "bodyman

plus these are the first large outboards ever owned {besides little 5 h.p.}
maybey this is why it looks like the marina's on fire when i fire them up after a week or so of sitting ,never de-carbed,even after 250 hrs last summer.oops
last fall when i tried to run them on land the exaust water was comming out{on one motor only} somewhat oily and there seemed to be alot of ,lets say little rust scales,in the exaust water is this carbon?
also while were on the topic,i cant seem to run these engines with the fresh water ears hooked up. they overheat in about a minute. so i cant rince them out good whenever its on land ,and i cant get antifreeze in them either.
last winter. and the winter before i just drained the blocks and heads and fogged them. with no problem "yet"

hmmm.. maybey that fish tank would have made a good testing tank? lol

(This post edited by thefishingfreak on 03/05/2003)

(This post edited by thefishingfreak on 03/05/2003)
 

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plugger

No you shouldn't do it on the muffs. After you spray you let it soak for some amount of time depending on what type you use. Then you need to run at FAST idle to blow out the carbon. Never run any outboat more than 2000 rpms on muffs ... your asking for trouble.
 

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Decarb - I disagree - it's best done on the muffs

Most people decarb on the muffs.. you've got to be carefull about the RPM's whenever running an engine in neutral, but it's really not a problem. When you start the engine back up and run it at a high idle - that means 1500-2000 RPM's. A normal idle, on the muffs (no back pressure) is probably about 1200. It doesn't completely get burned off until you run it a full throttle for a while; I'll smell the stuff burning off for a couple trips later. The danger of over-rev's on the muff's is when someone puts it in gear -that is what can make the engine run away.

The main issue is that decarbing is a very dirty procedure - I have, but it's best not to do it in the water because of the large disgusting oil slick & pollution in general. I did it once and will never do it like that again.

When decarbing you will get lots of black or whitish oily sort of gunk coming out of the through - hub exhaust. If you are on land, this stuff will get spit out all over the place.. some of it is probably just caused by the oil being burnt off - some of it is proably the caked up gunk in the exhaust housing being dissolved and falling down.. Normally with outboards there is a drip of this gunk, but the decarb really gets it flowing.

When you first start an engine, it's usually cold & requires choke - choke makes it run rich & causes excess smoking - that's what your fire is. A rich running outboard is actually a good thing, provided it doesn't foul plugs or get excessively carboned up. The richer, the more lubrication & longer life.

What the carbon actually looks like is hmmm.. like the resin that a pot head cleans out of a pipe. It can be dry, but is generally a sorta sticky tar looking substance. The rings around the pistons have a sort of spring to them - they are in grooves and push out to maintain contact with the cylinder walls. When the gunk gets in the ring grooves, the wrings can get stuck compressed and that is when carbon really can do damage; this is because compression is lost and the piston is no longer tight in the cylinder. It is also possible to break rings because of this gunk getting too packed in.

An engine should run fine on the muffs, I'm not sure why yours don't. If you find the right size plastic garbage barrel, it can be bent around to jam over the lower unit. The only problem with this is the water will get very oily very fast & it's a pain in the *ss to slip them on and take them off. Oh.. and don't put the engine in gear ;). The other downside is it will heat up the water, but is fine for short periods of time. I will sometimes do this when setting the idle to maintain back pressure for a good tuning.

Jon
 

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Fishingfreak,
Your water supply volume is not great enough to keep up with the demand of your motors water pump, are you running off of a well?
You should'nt have to put antifreze in the motors,leave them in the down position and they should drain completely dry.
Don't try to de-carb at you marina on a busy weekend .....your friends will want to de-carb you
(smoke show).
I used the muffs at the start and end of season. During the season I would find a calm spot and do it away from everyone or yor can run de-carb in your fuel.
Dave
 

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Carbonguard

I use a little when ever I remember and have not had any major carbon deposit problems since, infact it made my 94 evinrude 60 run cleaner with almost no smoke. My other notor only has a few hours on it but also doesnt smoke exessively.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thanks for the feedback

when i put the muffs on all the water seems to piss ouy the slots in the cavitation plate and the little holes on the front of the drive what if i duct tape them closed?
the little pisser shoots a steady stream but its not enough water to cool the engines. also i've never used fuel addatives because the boat holds 306 gallons and i would go bankrupt w/ addatives, and i use the boat quite often so it never sits for more than a few days.
another question. when the boats running in the water some exaust comes out of a rectangular hole just under the engine cover. on one engine it spurts water ever couple seconds "ba-woosh........ba-woosh"{while at idle} and the other engine spits just exaust-no water unless you goose it new waterpumps and thermostats is there something else that would cause this?engins never overheat.
 

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I had twins on a Pursuit and they where not exactly the same, minor differences....each one had its own personality so to speak. If they don't over heat and differences are minor I wouldn't worry too much about it. I had a similar problem on the Albemarle I bought last year. The previous owner couldn't figure out why one engine ran 10 degrees cooler than the other, new risers, manifolds and pumps. I found finally found out that the yard had mistakenly installed a 454 pump on one of the engines and a 350 pump on the other. I don't know about Yami's can you get different impellers?
You could try to tape up the holes but seems like a pain is the arse, why not try to get more water to the engine two hoses, larger hoses?
Go with the spray can de-carb 9.00 bucks I think, the guys are right it does make a difference in the way the engines run.
Good luck
Dave
 

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cooling system

I couldn't tell you exactly what the cooling system looks like inside on those, but it is common to have exhaust & a spray of water coming out of the exhaust ports on other engines.

Having one engine working a bit differently than the other is concerning, but if they run at the same temp normally & worked the same before the new impellers were installed, probably nothing to worry about..

Sometimes things happen when lower units or water pumps are installed, tubes aren't line up right and/or keys on the impeller end up slipping out of place & end up loose floating around etc.. That's allways a possibility, but you would probably know for sure something was wrong if this happened as one engine's cooling system really wouldn't work right.

Not to scare you, but it's possible to develop water leaks or clogs that restrict flow as well. While rebuilding the powerhead on my merc 115, I found a chunk of water pump impeller jammed way up near the powerhead. It allways worked fine before that, but did flow slightly better after. I don't have a temp guage and have no idea of what it runs at (hopefully 140 ;) ).

As for the thermostats; I'm not sure exactly what the deal is with the yami's, but if it was possible, and an outboard of mine, I'd take them out. One more thing to break..

For fuel issues; on the engine or the tank itself (or bothe) you have a water-seperating fuel filter?.. That's the most important thing.. Aside from that, you really should stabilize the fuel over the off-season - bad fuel will cause excessive smoking, carbon etc.. It can also clog carbs - a major pain in the balls when you've got two 6 cylinder engines.

Jon
 

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FISHING FREAK ON THOSE MOTORS YOU HAVE THE WATER COMEING OUT OF THR EXAUST PORTS IS OK ITS DESIGNED TO COOL OFF THE EXAUST MANIFOLD ON THE COOLING PROBLEM WITH THE EARS SOME TIMES AFTER YOU PUT ON A NEW PUMP ON YAMYS THEY TEND TO BE A PAIN IN THE ASS WHEN RUNNING THEM SOME TIMES THEY WORK WITH THE EARS SOME TIMES THEY DONT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PRESSURE YOU HAVE TO RUN THEM IN A BARREL OF WATER TO GET ALL THE AIR TRAPPED SOME TIMES THATS WHEN THOSE HOLES YOU MENIONED COME IN PLAY I USED TO WORK FOR MY FRIEND FOR YEARS AT HIS OUTBOARD SHOP AND USED TO RUN INTO THIS ALOT ON SOME NEW PUMPS ON THE QUESTION OF ANTIFREZE YOU DONT NEED ANY JUST TILT THE MOTOR DOWN AND THE BLOCK WILL DRAIN ITS SELF THE ONLY TIME YOU WOULD NEED IT IF YOU HAVE THE MOTOR UP YOU CAN POUR IT IN THE HUB OF THE MOTOR SO ICE AND WATER DO NOT GET IN THERE AND FREEZE AND CRACK THE HUB AND IF YOU HAVE POWER STEERING ON YOUR UNITS MOSTLY OMC YOU MUST PUT ANTIFREEZE IN THE POWER STEERING COOLER LOCATED UNDER THE COVER OR IT WILL FREEZE AND CRACK ALSO ON THE WATER PRESSURE PROBLEM THE WATER TUBE MIGHT HAVE SAND CAKED IN THE PISS TESTER THATS WHY ITS NOT COMEING OUT YOU CAN BLOW AIR INTO IT AND IT WILL CLEAN OUT THE PISS HOLE THIS ALSO WORKS FOR YOUR GAGES ON THE DASH TOO

(This post edited by LIL VIKING on 03/07/2003)
 

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Seafoam decarbing

Has anyone actually tried the Seafoam decarbon method?? I stopped by the NAPA store and they do have it in stock and I asked a nephew about it, he uses it as a stabalizer and said he has for years and his little motors always start right up.
I would like to try it, but don't want to be a test case and blow an engine.
Can't see where it would do any harm.

(This post edited by gsso36 on 03/10/2003)
 
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