Commercials are taking all the flounder ? period!

George: The draggers have been regulated since 1990 in a few ways.
1-Dragging is no longer allowed within a 2 mile radius of any south shore inlet.
2-A minimum mesh size of 5 1/2 inch throughout the net, this results in signifigantly less bycatch and retention of undersized flounder.
3= Trip limits, there are times of the year when the limit might be as little as 70 lbs per day.
Remember when we had great flounderr fishing? That was the good old days when we had the 3 mile limit and the Russian, Bulgarian, Portuguese and Spanish factory trawlers working 24-7 right offshore. Seems to me that more is wrong with the flounder population than just dragger pressure on the resource.There have been some very interesting theories put forth on this post and I feel it is unfair to put all the blame on the commercial sector. LATER

Value of Flounder

Another thought, what is the value of flounder to the fising industry. After fishing for a month for flounders with almost NOTHING, next year Im going to keep the boat on blocks.

No bait purchased, no fuel, no flounder rigs, no early work for marina etc.

Now I am fine with a few fish to take home, but sitting in the cold with no..and I mean no bites is pathetic.

And all to blame on a " few " draggers.

What about the future of the Shinne**** Star? He is a fisherman..getting his future hijacked by draggers.

I wonder how much commerical value Flounders have on the open market for sale, as opposed to a recreational fishery which is as good as closed, no one is catching. It is only a matter of time when people stop to fish for flounders.

I bet if you add up the reports of ALL of the flounders caught on this website it will not add up to one haul of a dragger.

Do the math, George

In your written opinion, you stated that in 1990, the recreational fishermen caught 1,106,590 lbs. of flounder.

In the next paragraph, you stated that in the year 2000, the recreation fishermen caught 293,472 lbs. which you said was less than 5% of what they caught in 1990.

You then go on to state that numbers don't lye (sic).

If you break out your pocket calculator, you'll find that the correct percentage is 26.5%

Numbers may not lie, but if we don't make an effort to pose in informed argument to the NMFS, they will think that we didn't bother to stay awake through sixth grade math, no less high school.

I agree that the commercial industry is harvesting a disproportionate amount of all fisheries. But let's get the facts straight before we fire the cannons.

Oysters,Lobsters,Black fish,Flounder
are all on the decline!
Some all ready more than others.
Whats next?
There are only a handfull of bayfisherman left. They can barely
make a living anymore.
Party boats next in line?
Whats the cost these days? Like $45 for 1/2 a day.
Now you want to take a kid fishing your
looking at almost $100
This will probably be another industry
also pushed to the limits like the
bayfisherman.
People will stay away due to the lack of
fish.
Its a shame whats happening.

Bad news and Good news.....

Hi guys,

First the bad news:

I spoke to Alice Weber over at the DEC Marine Fisheries Unit in Setauket today. I was calling to verify the weakfish meeting schedule (April 18 @ 7pm at the Setauket office). While speaking to her I tried to get the details on the fluke regs for this year. She told me that it had not been decided yet and explained to me the problems and possibile concerns with going with some of the different options. She told me that the head boat and charter boat lobby was pushing for the smallest size limit with the highest daily limit (obiously). I explained that I felt the DEC was there to do what is best for the species, despite what the lobbies may want. She commended me on my idealism.

Ms. Weber explained the issues with reaching the target level set for the species comeback. She said that it is very obvious that the fluke have responded very well but the target has not yet been reached, so they are still managing it very strictly. It is a matter of either having many small cuts, or one big one if the species collapses again or the quota is over shot.

Since we were on the topic of species of concern and regulations, I asked why nothing had been done about the flounder collapse as of yet. She told me the current regulations were what were asked for by the recreational fisherman almost 10 years ago. I pointed out that the flounder were in trouble then and have gotten worse every year since. Ms. Weber pointed out that back then, the greater concern was on reducing the mortality rate of released fish. She said that goal has been met and far surpassed. She also said that, that is because not as many people are fishing for them any more.

I asked Ms. Weber about the commercial fishing of flounder, dragging and fykes (I was not familiar with fykes until this thread) She stated that the draggers are harvesting an offshore population of fish that has rebounded well. She also stated that fykes contribute only a small amount to the commercial catch and are therefore not much of an issue. I asked about the offshore population being the same population that migrates into the bays in the winter and she told me that they are beginning to beleive that there are different populations. An offshore population that is responding well and an inshore population that is struggling. They are also looking to the possibility of some natural causes for the decline of the inshore fish. She also told me that the dragger season closes for six months of the year through the summer.

So I asked about a by-catch issue with the summer fluke draggers catching flounder. She said that the gear restrictions on fluke draggers are designed to allow 50% of 14 inch fluke through. Therefore the flounder 14 inches and smaller should be able to pass through as well.

I also inquired about the roller gear used for tautog and sea bass. I had heard of a possible size reduction on rollers. Ms. Weber said the current gear has an 18 inch maximum size and there are no plans on reducing it. She also said that the commercial daily limit is only 25 tog and that not many are doing it. The greatest problem is from the JERSY boats fishing the Western reefs.

So here are a couple of questions that come to mind while writing this that I didn't think about while talking to her:

1) If the commercials are harvesting an offshore population, what the heck are those draggers catching right now only a mile or two off of the South Shore? We have all seen them this season. What other species are there to harvest there this time of year?

2) The fluke dragger nets are designed to release half of the fish 14 inches or less. That may work in an ideal situation, but along the South Shore, you can see the dragger fleet working like a train about a mile between each boat and slightly staggered. Those fish that have been released by one staggered group of draggers are just run over by the next sucession of draggers. So you have 50% of 50% of 50% and so on. But it is all legal.

Now for the good news:

Wal-Mart in Middle Island just got in some Storm Wild Eye shad in the 5" bunker color. He only had about a dozen left but there are more on the way. I was calling there sooooo much, that the sporting goods manager, John, finally contacted another store down South and is getting their stock. He only got in a small shipment today, but more are on the way!