changing td's to lat&long
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no way to get it 100%
Sorry to tell you this but your out of luck. there are conversion programs but they can be off up to 1500ft. There is a 3% Tolerance in the calculation. I spoke to Mr. Very at the awios and used the goverment program given to me by Steve Very and thats the best conversion out there. but I found some areas to be close but other areas 1/4 mi. off. I Captined A charter boat that had a Furuno( forgot the model) Machine that has a conversion fron loran c to lat/lon and lat/lon to , loranC but it also has the 3% diffrence. Then you also have to figure every machine could be 50-100ft. off each other also. So the best thing to do is use the loran to find what your looking for then save it to Gps . If you have a Northstar 951 or up there is a phantom Loran which works like a conversion program and will do what you want. Also like I said the awios has a program you could buy also . Dam I wish there was spell checker built in this posting program?
Sorry to tell you this but your out of luck. there are conversion programs but they can be off up to 1500ft. There is a 3% Tolerance in the calculation. I spoke to Mr. Very at the awios and used the goverment program given to me by Steve Very and thats the best conversion out there. but I found some areas to be close but other areas 1/4 mi. off. I Captined A charter boat that had a Furuno( forgot the model) Machine that has a conversion fron loran c to lat/lon and lat/lon to , loranC but it also has the 3% diffrence. Then you also have to figure every machine could be 50-100ft. off each other also. So the best thing to do is use the loran to find what your looking for then save it to Gps . If you have a Northstar 951 or up there is a phantom Loran which works like a conversion program and will do what you want. Also like I said the awios has a program you could buy also . Dam I wish there was spell checker built in this posting program?
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582 Posts
Conversions
Togmaster precisely my question. (I agree spell check would be nice.)
I have an older King Loran remarkably resillient,resisted the urge to junk it during the rush to rumours that Loran C was dead.I would like GPS as a backup as my thing is "structure fishing" anywhere from close to shore and 15-20 or so miles out here is my question:
A friend of my has a handheld quality GPS I'd like him to punch in his GPS at the same time I arrive at my designatd TD will that GPS number be accurate and equivalent lat/long to my TD ? I would like to have them stored someplace until I pick up a GPS. His feeling is that each GPS unit is different so that if and when I buy my own unit what is stored in his unit may not be accurate, to my new unit. Does that sound right?
I thought of another question let's say my LORAN is shot and I purchase a new Loran not sure who is till making them. Would my existing TDs loaded into the new unit be as accurate as they were with the older unit or would they lose something in the transition?
Any ideas or thoughts, are greatly appreciated, fishing comes pretty easy to me ( I am a Pisces) but the technical end is really tough , regards, Gary.
Togmaster precisely my question. (I agree spell check would be nice.)
I have an older King Loran remarkably resillient,resisted the urge to junk it during the rush to rumours that Loran C was dead.I would like GPS as a backup as my thing is "structure fishing" anywhere from close to shore and 15-20 or so miles out here is my question:
A friend of my has a handheld quality GPS I'd like him to punch in his GPS at the same time I arrive at my designatd TD will that GPS number be accurate and equivalent lat/long to my TD ? I would like to have them stored someplace until I pick up a GPS. His feeling is that each GPS unit is different so that if and when I buy my own unit what is stored in his unit may not be accurate, to my new unit. Does that sound right?
I thought of another question let's say my LORAN is shot and I purchase a new Loran not sure who is till making them. Would my existing TDs loaded into the new unit be as accurate as they were with the older unit or would they lose something in the transition?
Any ideas or thoughts, are greatly appreciated, fishing comes pretty easy to me ( I am a Pisces) but the technical end is really tough , regards, Gary.
The free government program converts TDs to Lat/Lon in the "seconds" format. The GPS receiver defaults to "decimal minutes". Simply entering into the GPS unit what the program outputs is a very common error which greatly affects accuracy.
You may still purchase reconditioned LORAN C units on EBay for reasonable prices.
Best bet is to go out there with LORAN C and mark your position with a DGPS or WAAS-enabled GPS receiver.
-Bill
You may still purchase reconditioned LORAN C units on EBay for reasonable prices.
Best bet is to go out there with LORAN C and mark your position with a DGPS or WAAS-enabled GPS receiver.
-Bill
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3,953 Posts
They still make Loranc's
The only company still making a loran is Furuno the lc-90mrkII. Tom at Starboard marine has them .
They cost like 1000.00 with the whip and coupler. I also spoke to the northstar Rep and asked if they would contiune there 800x line and he said they will see . the reason being the loran chain was supposed to shut down in 2011 but they say now it will be kept up till they decide something else. So i think you will see some companies making a loran soon?
as far a your question on lat/lon and td's from 1 machine to another there will always be a slight tororance between machine. I cannot tell you the exact amount that can only be done by comparing the diffrence in 10th's from 1 machine to another. you need to take diffrent areas into the problem also. what I mean is loran c is not perfect as Gps. Loran works over land based chains while gps and DGps works over a combanation of land and sky based chains. I would reccommend getting a w.a.s.unit these days because that is a total sky based conversion compared to dgps. The goverment has lifted the defense offset now letting a w.a.s gps be as accurte or better then a dgps at a lot less the price.
So if you buy a Gps Gary make sure its a W.a.s unit Which Ratyheon owns the Technology for.
The standard cp150 is a w.a.s gps with a chart ploter and its like 350.00. for the money its a grewat unit ck it out
Me personally would only use a northstar 951 or up. i don't play games and northstar is by far in the top 3 units out there but it will cost you !
good luck and i'm not spell checking this so if there are spelling errors sorry? Capt. Mike Marks
http://home.earthlink.net/~steven0010/
The only company still making a loran is Furuno the lc-90mrkII. Tom at Starboard marine has them .
They cost like 1000.00 with the whip and coupler. I also spoke to the northstar Rep and asked if they would contiune there 800x line and he said they will see . the reason being the loran chain was supposed to shut down in 2011 but they say now it will be kept up till they decide something else. So i think you will see some companies making a loran soon?
as far a your question on lat/lon and td's from 1 machine to another there will always be a slight tororance between machine. I cannot tell you the exact amount that can only be done by comparing the diffrence in 10th's from 1 machine to another. you need to take diffrent areas into the problem also. what I mean is loran c is not perfect as Gps. Loran works over land based chains while gps and DGps works over a combanation of land and sky based chains. I would reccommend getting a w.a.s.unit these days because that is a total sky based conversion compared to dgps. The goverment has lifted the defense offset now letting a w.a.s gps be as accurte or better then a dgps at a lot less the price.
So if you buy a Gps Gary make sure its a W.a.s unit Which Ratyheon owns the Technology for.
The standard cp150 is a w.a.s gps with a chart ploter and its like 350.00. for the money its a grewat unit ck it out
Me personally would only use a northstar 951 or up. i don't play games and northstar is by far in the top 3 units out there but it will cost you !
good luck and i'm not spell checking this so if there are spelling errors sorry? Capt. Mike Marks
http://home.earthlink.net/~steven0010/
Togmaster:
You are correct, but...some people just input the lat/lon (converted into seconds, i.e. 40 47 10 N/72 49 00 W)into their GPS unit (that is expecting decimal minutes), without realizing this is incorrect (they just add a zero to the end of their conversion)- this introduces an error of .45nm.
If you tell your unit to input or display into seconds, you are shooting yourself in the foot- because the position fix in seconds (2 digits) only provides the precision for a within 101 feet, at best.
-Bill
You are correct, but...some people just input the lat/lon (converted into seconds, i.e. 40 47 10 N/72 49 00 W)into their GPS unit (that is expecting decimal minutes), without realizing this is incorrect (they just add a zero to the end of their conversion)- this introduces an error of .45nm.
If you tell your unit to input or display into seconds, you are shooting yourself in the foot- because the position fix in seconds (2 digits) only provides the precision for a within 101 feet, at best.
-Bill
If you tell your unit to input or display into seconds, you are shooting yourself in the foot- because the position fix in seconds (2 digits) only provides the precision for a POSITION FIX within 101 feet, at best.
Providing precision to the 1/1000 (three digits to right of decimal) provides theoretical accuracy to provide a position fix within 6 feet, which is only possible with a DGPS or WAAS unit, even with selective availability turned off.
You can purchase refurbished Micrologic Mariner LORAN C units (complete with antenna coupler) on EBay for $250-$300.
Because the demand is down, and there are not too many manufacturers building units- the price of a new unit is astronomical. $1000 will buy you a DGPS Chartplotter & the chart chip for your area.
-Bill
Providing precision to the 1/1000 (three digits to right of decimal) provides theoretical accuracy to provide a position fix within 6 feet, which is only possible with a DGPS or WAAS unit, even with selective availability turned off.
You can purchase refurbished Micrologic Mariner LORAN C units (complete with antenna coupler) on EBay for $250-$300.
Because the demand is down, and there are not too many manufacturers building units- the price of a new unit is astronomical. $1000 will buy you a DGPS Chartplotter & the chart chip for your area.
-Bill
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3,953 Posts
only some good lorans
Yes you are correct but as far as a used loran a micrologic is the most unsteady loran there is.
The ml-3000 the old big boy was great but the explore and cheaper units always jump like crazy. I have used them and still have a handheld which jumps 10/th's like crazy.
The lc-90mrII is still made and available from Tom at starboard marine I bought 1 from him last season.
The 800x and the furuno are the only 2 machines i would rely on! Don't get me wrong they all will do the same thing but when you start looking ofr a wreck and your machine won't update quick enough you know the old drive away and come back routine to let the loran catch up? The northstar and furuno won't give you the problem. Yes I know you could speed up the conversion rate but face it you want a real loran get either unit I suggested?
Yes you are correct but as far as a used loran a micrologic is the most unsteady loran there is.
The ml-3000 the old big boy was great but the explore and cheaper units always jump like crazy. I have used them and still have a handheld which jumps 10/th's like crazy.
The lc-90mrII is still made and available from Tom at starboard marine I bought 1 from him last season.
The 800x and the furuno are the only 2 machines i would rely on! Don't get me wrong they all will do the same thing but when you start looking ofr a wreck and your machine won't update quick enough you know the old drive away and come back routine to let the loran catch up? The northstar and furuno won't give you the problem. Yes I know you could speed up the conversion rate but face it you want a real loran get either unit I suggested?
togmaster is right
As Togmaster says there is no accurate way of converting TDs to LL using a program. The best accuracy is obtained by have a Loran C and GPS on board and clock in the GPS position when on the spot. The position acuracy of navigation systems from least accurate to most accurate is as follows;
1)Sextant
2)Loran C
3)Standard GPS (no SA)
4)WAAS GPS
5)DGPS
If you locate a spot with Loran, saving the position with WAAS GPS or DGPS should be adequate.
Also, do not confuse the GPS format which can be any one of three or four types with GPS accuracy, they are all equivalent as far as accuracy is concerned, providing you convert to the correct format for your GPS.
As Togmaster says there is no accurate way of converting TDs to LL using a program. The best accuracy is obtained by have a Loran C and GPS on board and clock in the GPS position when on the spot. The position acuracy of navigation systems from least accurate to most accurate is as follows;
1)Sextant
2)Loran C
3)Standard GPS (no SA)
4)WAAS GPS
5)DGPS
If you locate a spot with Loran, saving the position with WAAS GPS or DGPS should be adequate.
Also, do not confuse the GPS format which can be any one of three or four types with GPS accuracy, they are all equivalent as far as accuracy is concerned, providing you convert to the correct format for your GPS.
Togmaster:
I have had a Northstar 951XD for a long time- but purchased a Micrologics Mariner LORAN C unit about 18 months ago to convert wrecks, and as an aid offshore (the old salts typically will say, the "450 line". The unit only works about 80% of the time, even though I installed a grounding plate in my hull. It does get more reliable the farther offshore I go (as it should). Are you saying that this particular model is not good? I just attributed it to LORAN C not being too reliable.
-Bill
I have had a Northstar 951XD for a long time- but purchased a Micrologics Mariner LORAN C unit about 18 months ago to convert wrecks, and as an aid offshore (the old salts typically will say, the "450 line". The unit only works about 80% of the time, even though I installed a grounding plate in my hull. It does get more reliable the farther offshore I go (as it should). Are you saying that this particular model is not good? I just attributed it to LORAN C not being too reliable.
-Bill
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582 Posts
Conversions
Thanks for the wealth of information I think I will save this great thread for later, regards, Gary.
Thanks for the wealth of information I think I will save this great thread for later, regards, Gary.
Joined
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3,953 Posts
old reliable
porbeagle it is not loran c it is the unit. Micrologic is known for there inaccuracy along with at least 85% of lorans made. I have been installing Marine electronics for 20 yrs. and the only 2 machines that work 99.9% of the time are the northstar800 or 800x, and the furuno lc-90mrkII. I have owned both machines and the north star I will say is a bit better as far as speed and accuracy but the furuno gives you 5 lines of information where the northstar only gives you 2 lines.
Believe me I spent so much time, Filters Gnd. plates everything under the sun. with other units and after self experince and from other charter, party boat, and commercial fisher Capt's. these are the only 2 units 90% of them own and use. I love the 951 and the boat I Capt. now has the new 962 with the 10'lcd and course up which is unreal.
A good secrect with the Gps is when anchoring on a wreck I use only the machine to give me the lenght of line out and the bearing for postioning my anchors. i anchor sometimes 20 times a day on pieces and have found using the machine to be more reliable then loran and as accuate as a bouy. so don't drive your self carzy with fliters and gnd. plates it is your unit not Loran c.
Loran c has a repeatability of 50 ft. and is very consitent.
When I have used a poor unit as the micrologic what I do is get close to the number s and then make s turns along 1 line. 4300 or 2600. Then i'll use the gps to confirm my postion. I find this to be more helpful then using just the loran .being the gps track every 1 sec. and is acurate to within 3 ft.http://home.earthlink.net/~steven0010/
porbeagle it is not loran c it is the unit. Micrologic is known for there inaccuracy along with at least 85% of lorans made. I have been installing Marine electronics for 20 yrs. and the only 2 machines that work 99.9% of the time are the northstar800 or 800x, and the furuno lc-90mrkII. I have owned both machines and the north star I will say is a bit better as far as speed and accuracy but the furuno gives you 5 lines of information where the northstar only gives you 2 lines.
Believe me I spent so much time, Filters Gnd. plates everything under the sun. with other units and after self experince and from other charter, party boat, and commercial fisher Capt's. these are the only 2 units 90% of them own and use. I love the 951 and the boat I Capt. now has the new 962 with the 10'lcd and course up which is unreal.
A good secrect with the Gps is when anchoring on a wreck I use only the machine to give me the lenght of line out and the bearing for postioning my anchors. i anchor sometimes 20 times a day on pieces and have found using the machine to be more reliable then loran and as accuate as a bouy. so don't drive your self carzy with fliters and gnd. plates it is your unit not Loran c.
Loran c has a repeatability of 50 ft. and is very consitent.
When I have used a poor unit as the micrologic what I do is get close to the number s and then make s turns along 1 line. 4300 or 2600. Then i'll use the gps to confirm my postion. I find this to be more helpful then using just the loran .being the gps track every 1 sec. and is acurate to within 3 ft.http://home.earthlink.net/~steven0010/
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