[twofinbluna]

From Bangor Daily News

"Local commercial fishermen were polite but cool this week while taking their first look at an industry-funded buyout proposal.

State Marine Resources Commissioner George Lapointe introduced a proposal for a $100 million federal buyout program aimed at reducing the number of fishermen and relieving pressure on depleted groundfish populations such as cod and haddock."

This post edited by twofinbluna 04:00 PM 02/25/2008

 

[LooneyTunes]

Start at the source of the problem to properly resolve it.

One stupid question,

Why is the government funding a 100 million dollar buy out ? That will do nothing to address the problem.

Reducing the number of commercial fishermen will not relieve the pressure on depleted groundfish populations such as cod and haddock." All it will do is allocate the shrinking supply to fewer boats. STUPID STUPID STUPID!

The only way to address rebuilding the populations is to reduce (notice I did not say stop commercial fishing) the commercial harvest of cod and haddock but the comms won?t hear anything about that.

Also, you need to protect the stocks from by-catch. The big complaint is that MW trawlers are decimating the juvenile populations. Start at the source of the problem to properly resolve it.

LooneyTunes
Dave

 

[Seajay2]

We are from the government, we are here to help you.

Ignore the fact that the only reason we are employed by the government is because we were unqualifed for the assistant dog catcher's position, or any other meaningful employment.

 

[MakoMike]

LooneyTunes wrote:
One stupid question,

Why is the government funding a 100 million dollar buy out ? That will do nothing to address the problem.


Dave you need to go back and reread the first message, the buyout is being funded by the industry not the government.

 

[LooneyTunes]

Be right back, gotta take my son to the bus stop

This post edited by LooneyTunes 08:56 AM 02/26/2008

 

[LooneyTunes]

THE ARTICLE STATES FEDERALLY FUNDED AS DOES THE FIRST POST

MakoMike wrote:
Dave you need to go back and reread the first message, the buyout is being funded by the industry not the government.
No, I don't need to reread the first message. It's quite clear what the article say?..
Bangornews wrote:
State Marine Resources Commissioner George Lapointe introduced a proposal for a $100 million federal buyout program aimed at reducing the number of fishermen and relieving pressure on depleted groundfish populations such as cod and haddock.

Bangornews wrote:
The buyout program would be funded by a federal loan that would be paid back by fishermen who remain in the industry.

It is federally funded because the fishing industry will paying back at a reduced interest rate. So the tax payers foot the extra percentage points in interest.

If I could get the loan on my home federally funded (a shame the govt doesn't do that), I would be paying an interest rate around 2%. The tax payers would foot the difference between the 2% and current prime rate, which is probably around 6% (I haven't checked.).

IT IS FEDERALLY FUNDED !

LooneyTunes
Dave

This post edited by LooneyTunes 09:17 AM 02/26/2008

 

[MakoMike]

The taxpayer will foot the bill for nothing, if the loan is ultimately paid back. The reduced interest rate is what the government pays to borrow money. Right now the ten year T-bill carries an interest rate of about 3.5%, the prime rate or any other commercial loan rate is not what the Government pays.

IOW, If I borrow money at 1% and loan it to your at 1% am I either subsidizing you or making a profit on you?

 

[LooneyTunes]

The Government subsidised the loan and also put itself on the hook in case of default.

MM,

Come on, REDUCED rate: That indicates that the Government is getting paid back LESS! The Government could have loaned the money out at FULL undiscounted rate. It does come out of the tax payers. Sorry.

I would rather see the government loan the money to an entity that is using GOVERNMENT LOANS to introduce products to reduce our reliance on foreign oil (sounds weird coming from a boater, huh?).

So, what's the difference?

Government loans = full undiscounted rate (the government makes profit)
Government subsidized loans = reduced interest rate (the government doesn't make ANY profit)

Do you see the difference in TERMS?

Tell me, what happens when the commercial entity defaults on the loan? Yep, it's the tax payers that are out NOT ONLY INTEREST but PRINCIPLE too.

LooneyTunes
Dave

This post edited by LooneyTunes 11:17 AM 02/26/2008

 

[claw1]

Fishermen = Farmers

Fishermen have a very WEAK lobby ! Farmers have price supports , land that is laid barren and is supported by the goverment .
The goverment OWES it to the fishermen of this country to be supportive of their business !!!!
Look at the history of this country , fishermen have provided a valuable food source , that frankly this country may NOT have survived without them . You doubt that ? Go read the history of Maine and Mass.

 

[flatts1b]

Looney,

IMHO, if this is done right, it will be the most responsible way of reducing capacity in the New England groundfish fleet. And I give the industry a lot of credit for considering it.

Again, this is a load that will need to be paid back by the remaining entrants. It won't cost you and I a dime.

That's win/win to me.

Do you have a better idea?

Thanks,
Mike F.

 

[flatts1b]

quote:
Claw1 wrote:

Fishermen = Farmers


No they don't.

 

[shebeen]

I wonder if this proposal 'locks' the size of the remaining vessels after the buy-out.

Otherwise, if there's fewer boats but all of a sudden those remaining are two or three times larger....what's the point?

 

[MakoMike]

shebeen wrote:

I wonder if this proposal 'locks' the size of the remaining vessels after the buy-out.

Otherwise, if there's fewer boats but all of a sudden those remaining are two or three times larger....what's the point?


Anyone with a limited access permit is already locked in on the size and the horsepower of the boat. You can only upgrade once and its limited to something like a 20% increase in size and horsepower.

 

[LooneyTunes]

Are we talking the same thing here?

flatts1b wrote:
Looney,

IMHO, if this is done right, it will be the most responsible way of reducing capacity in the New England groundfish fleet. And I give the industry a lot of credit for considering it.

Again, this is a load that will need to be paid back by the remaining entrants. It won't cost you and I a dime.

That's win/win to me.

Do you have a better idea?

Thanks,
Mike F.

Mike F.

They are reducing boats NOT capacity.

BETTER IDEA

REDUCE commercial harvest. It doesn't do squat to reduce number of boats. As I have said before, less boats just means more for the remaining boats.

Do you suppose the comm is going to say, Ok the limit is 10 million pounds (very arbitrary number). Since the fleet has been reduced from 10 to 5 boats I will just take same 1 million pounds that I have harvested every year. NO! they are going to share 10 million pounds between 5 boats instead of 10. That means 2 million pounds per remaining boat. So through this reduction 5 boats are gone and 5 boats get double of their normal share of the catch. NOTHING IS BEING REDUCED!! BADDDDD idea.

Reduction in landing and by-catch is the only way to rebuild. Think of it in terms of the current fluke regs. Every year we get a pole slid up the back door. Regulators state that we are catching too many to support the long term rebuilding goals. So they REDUCE tal, decrease bag limits, and increase minimum length.

Looneytunes
Dave

This post edited by LooneyTunes 12:07 PM 02/26/2008

 

[claw1]

One time upgrade 10% horsepower, 10% size.

 

[loligo]

Looneydave wrote:

Reduction in landing and by-catch is the only way to rebuild. Think of it in terms of the current fluke regs. Every year we get a pole slid up the back door. Regulators state that we are catching too many to support the long term rebuilding goals. So they REDUCE tal, decrease bag limits, and increase minimum length.

my fluke bag limit hasn't been reduced in ten years.....and my size limit hasn't increased. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

IMO the only way to save fluke is to keep reducing the recreational take and increase their size limit, until they just don't want to fish for them anymore- then we can have the whole quota to ourselves

 

[claw1]

Sorry Flatts fisherman are like farmers.

Fishermen are like farmers . Both provide food for the nation. Both have huge investments . The IRS treats them in a similiar fashion as far as taxes are concerned.

 

[loligo]

claw1 wrote:
Fishermen are like farmers . Both provide food for the nation. Both have huge investments . The IRS treats them in a similiar fashion as far as taxes are concerned.

Thats right.

But don't be too hard on mikey- he doesn't understand that it isn't the same as fishing for fun......

 

[LooneyTunes]

Here is some more sand in the vaseline

Hey Mike,

According to Loligo commercial fishing and farming are the same. I am not so sure about that.

Even a farmer rest his fields to give them a chance to replenish nutrients. It would be a cold day in **** before we saw a commercial fisherman give a stock a rest.

More of the commercial cry: Whhaahhh whhaaahh We want federal money for everything.

loligo wrote:
my fluke bag limit hasn't been reduced in ten years.....and my size limit hasn't increased. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

IMO the only way to save fluke is to keep reducing the recreational take and increase their size limit, until they just don't want to fish for them anymore- then we can have the whole quota to ourselves

Other famous commercial lies:
The government has to buy our used lines because they said we had to change lines
We don't destroy habitat
We have zero by catch
We will work with recreational fishermen

And the number one commercial lie,

We don't want cameras on board because the camera adds 10 pounds to each fish.

LooneyTunes
Dave

This post edited by LooneyTunes 04:09 PM 02/26/2008

 

[midcoastfishing]

LooneyTunes wrote:

The government has to buy our used lines because they said we had to change lines


How is that a lie?