[fishon2407]

I have the oppurtunity to obtain either a 300 gal drum which is about 3 1/2' in diameter and 7' high or a 7' by 4' by 3 1/2' high overspill container that the drum sits in both made of white plastic.With a little modification to either which one do you think would make a better pen for keeping live bunker in?

 

[MakoMike]

The one with the bigger surface area, it will allow more oxygen into the water.

 

[fishon2407]

Thanks Mike.

 

[NewLove]

Can they be used for fuel??

 

[clementine]

As mike said, i would use the wider, shorter one.

 

[HungryJack]

Wrong answer #1

MakoMike wrote:
The one with the bigger surface area, it will allow more oxygen into the water.

What does surface area have to do with a bunker pen ?

 

[Gaucho]

Just make sure you have good circulation.

 

[HungryJack]

Wrong answer #2

clementine wrote:
As mike said, i would use the wider, shorter one.
Wrong.

Who would like to provide this member with the third wrong answer in this thread ?

 

[MakoMike]

HungryJack wrote:
MakoMike wrote:
The one with the bigger surface area, it will allow more oxygen into the water.

What does surface area have to do with a bunker pen ?



The larger the surface area the greater the area for oxygen CO2 exhange, the more oxygen the better. That's why some people use airators, they don't directly induce oxygen, the increase the surface area by forming bubbles, which allows for more oxygen/CO2 exhange accross the increased surface area. Bunker or any other bait for that matter, can't live without oxygen.

 

[HungryJack]

Wrong answer #3

MakoMike wrote:
The larger the surface area the greater the area for oxygen CO2 exhange, the more oxygen the better. That's why some people use airators, they don't directly induce oxygen, the increase the surface area by forming bubbles, which allows for more oxygen/CO2 exhange accross the increased surface area.
Bunker or any other bait for that matter, can't live without oxygen.
You are trying to apply fish tank dynamics to a bunker pen,
they are not the same situation, and your advise does not hold true,
or even apply when discussing a bunker pen.

Generally bunker pens do not use aeration devices.

You are confusing a pen with a livewell,
they are different.

Humans can't live without oxygen either,
lack of it causes brain damage.
I often wonder if NE members forget to breath while posting

 

[PAULN]

I've been through a few pens.... Anything shaped like a hockey puck is far better than a deep round- Talk to a commercial guy fishing giants up in Mass.- Keeping bait alive(usually bluefish) is a part of how they make a living- I followed their advice and I have bunker for weeks as long as they are netted... Mine is 5' wide X 4' deep...

 

[656502]

HungryJack wrote:
clementine wrote:
As mike said, i would use the wider, shorter one.
Wrong.
Who would like to provide this member with the third wrong answer in this thread ?


I'm sure HungryJack has useful insight from his depth of experience in mariculture that he'll share. In the meantime.....

What Mike said is correct particularly if this is going to be a "livewell" or land-based tank because oxygen dissolves into water at air-water interfaces restoring the oxygen removed from the water by respiring menhaden. The pressure of oxygen (and other gases) in the atmosphere force oxygen (and other gases) into solution up to the temperature-specific saturation of each gas. So a tank with a greater % surface area is relativly more healthy than a tall, deep tank since it can off-gas waste and take on oxygen more effectively. Air bubblers and circulation pumps can help alleviate the reduced exposure of water in tall narrow containers but are a secondary consideration.
Make sure the temperature does not get too high since the amount of dissolved oxygen in water decreases as temperature increases (at equal pressure).
Having said that, you'll want a good deal of fresh seawater exchange to swap out waste-filled water, or a robust biological filter ina closed system.
Second, menhaden are an actively swimming, schooling fish. This "style" of behavior does best in donut or relatively large circular enclosures.

If you're submerging the barrel in the water it's less critical, but the larger the enclosure diameter the better off the fish will be in conditions where the subsurface water becomes deoxygenated as often happens during summer in the backwaters where marinas often exist.

I've kept bluefin tuna alive for days in fiberglass tanks on boat decks....and held and transported countless thousands of menhaden offshore to feed to captive tuna. Although I am clearly talking out my A%^, you might consider that only one guy thinks the tall enclosure is better. I'd hate to see menhaden die outside a predator's mouth unecessarily!

 

[clementine]

HungryJack wrote:
clementine wrote:
As mike said, i would use the wider, shorter one.
Wrong.

Who would like to provide this member with the third wrong answer in this thread ?


OK. It just seems a 7' tall bunker pen filled with 2400 pounds of water might be a little impractical.

This post edited by clementine 06:51 PM 05/19/2008

 

[clementine]

A question:
Is this pen sitting in the water or is a plumbed pen sitting on a dock? I suppose if it were in the water and your marina was deep enough go for the 7'. But in that case, why would you want a solid container under the water.

 

[HungryJack]

Wrong answer #4

clementine wrote:
OK. It just seems a 7' tall bunker pen filled with 2400 hundred pounds of water might be a little impractical.

Can you explain why in your opinion its impractical ?

Do you know the difference between a pen and a livewell ?

FYI- a barrel that size is not 300 gallons,
but actually 500 gallons,
and if filled to capacity with salt water,
would weight around 4,250 pounds.

This post edited by HungryJack 06:42 PM 05/19/2008

 

[HungryJack]

clementine wrote:
why would you want a solid container under the water.
Asking that question shows you don't even understand the basics of a how a pen operates.

But don't let that stop you from offering advise on which container is the right choice or how to set it up.

 

[clementine]

I guess i am confused on what makes a bunker pen.

 

[fishon2407]

Alright,been away for a little,just to clarify,it will be a pen in the water next to the dock with holes in it for water to flow through.The drum is 300 gallons cause it says so right on it.The rectangular one does have more surface area over all but the cylindrical one has more depth and I was told round is better for the fish to swim.I don't plan on keeping too many bunker in there at once 30 -40 should be max.OK have at it.

 

[HungryJack]

fishon2407 wrote:
The drum is 300 gallons cause it says so right on it.
Then the dimensions you posted are wrong.

To calculate the volume of a round container:

Depth x Diameter-squared x 5.9 = Volume in Gallons

so

7 x 3.5 x 3.5 x 5.9 = 505.925 Gallons

 

[clementine]

Well i guess i will still discuss
I didn't realize the shorter container was square, and if it's sitting next to a dock in the water you might want the taller one. But again i'm probably completely confused.