Blackfish
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I fish with a commercial guy and we have been seeing some real nice fish all summer. South Shore west end. Greens and Hermits are doing best.
Hey, since there are so many japanese shore crabs, why don't you start collecting them and then use them for blackfish? For food, just put in some chunks of meat and some dead fish like spearing. They only need about 5 inches of water which you could replace once every 5 days or so. And for cover, just get some rocks.
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1,548 Posts
togtogtogtogtogtogtogtog
I can't wait till Oct 10th(NJ) "opening day" for my favorite bucktooth beauts and also my birthday
Those Asian shore crabs work pretty well...for me they seem like tog-candy in shallower water, but don't work that great in deeper holes like 17 Fathoms, jusy MHO.
I already have a few trips planned and booked and xome more in the works.
I know Alberto loves them as well ans hopefully he'll post some of his secret tactics.
I can't wait till Oct 10th(NJ) "opening day" for my favorite bucktooth beauts and also my birthday
Those Asian shore crabs work pretty well...for me they seem like tog-candy in shallower water, but don't work that great in deeper holes like 17 Fathoms, jusy MHO.
I already have a few trips planned and booked and xome more in the works.
I know Alberto loves them as well ans hopefully he'll post some of his secret tactics.
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107 Posts
There is a sandbar that I fish on the North shore of LI.When I'm wadeing on the bar the Green Crabs are all over the place. Nice big ones too,HUMMMMM.
Hermit Crabs in the Winter.......
Gamakatsu....you do not want hermit crabs for winter blackfishing...hermits are a spring time bait since the fish are taking soft baits like skimmers, sandworms etc, which are their primary diet at that time of the year. If you ever see what blackfish pass from their bodies at this time of the year, the most common thing you see is broken/ground up shells from mussels and clams. These fish have moved in from offshore, where they have been laying around in a semi-doormant state due to the cooler bottom temps...their lips are soft, thus the use of 'soft baits'. As you get into May, you see the fish respond better to fiddler crabs, and calico crabs which are 'soft' unlike the hard baits, the green crab and stone crab. You can also tell when their are starting to switch over to crabs by checking their 'anal opening' which begins to open up, both from the warming bottom temps, but also since they are passing crabs parts like the legs. Once you get into December, the fish have moved out into deeper water, thus you want to use the stone crab. Greg "Ocean Eagle", his brother and myself started the use of the stone crabs for the fall and winter fishing here in Sheepshead Bay years ago. While everyone was catching the smaller fish on the green crabs, we would fish on the same wrecks, or rough bottom, and pull up mules to the disbelief of people on the party boats. If you fish the Ocean Eagle, ask Capt. Greg how many times we would knock out a boat fishing near us when we put the stone crabs down. They were hard to get but we trapped our own bait, or bought from the local dragger fleet.
The bottom line, is when you start fishing the deeper waters around 80 feet and deeper, you want the hard crabs. Save the hermits for the spring time, when you are fishing the shallows in areas like Long Island sound.
EC NEWELL MAN>
Gamakatsu....you do not want hermit crabs for winter blackfishing...hermits are a spring time bait since the fish are taking soft baits like skimmers, sandworms etc, which are their primary diet at that time of the year. If you ever see what blackfish pass from their bodies at this time of the year, the most common thing you see is broken/ground up shells from mussels and clams. These fish have moved in from offshore, where they have been laying around in a semi-doormant state due to the cooler bottom temps...their lips are soft, thus the use of 'soft baits'. As you get into May, you see the fish respond better to fiddler crabs, and calico crabs which are 'soft' unlike the hard baits, the green crab and stone crab. You can also tell when their are starting to switch over to crabs by checking their 'anal opening' which begins to open up, both from the warming bottom temps, but also since they are passing crabs parts like the legs. Once you get into December, the fish have moved out into deeper water, thus you want to use the stone crab. Greg "Ocean Eagle", his brother and myself started the use of the stone crabs for the fall and winter fishing here in Sheepshead Bay years ago. While everyone was catching the smaller fish on the green crabs, we would fish on the same wrecks, or rough bottom, and pull up mules to the disbelief of people on the party boats. If you fish the Ocean Eagle, ask Capt. Greg how many times we would knock out a boat fishing near us when we put the stone crabs down. They were hard to get but we trapped our own bait, or bought from the local dragger fleet.
The bottom line, is when you start fishing the deeper waters around 80 feet and deeper, you want the hard crabs. Save the hermits for the spring time, when you are fishing the shallows in areas like Long Island sound.
EC NEWELL MAN>
Gami and other tog veterans,
How about offering up some tips. what kind of tackle do you use?
I noticed that some guys like using rods up to 8 ft and there are those who use rods as short as 6ft. Any reason why? Looking for a rod, right now it looks like I am probably going to get a rod from the Lami braided line series in the 7ft range with 20-30lb test rating.
My reel is spooled up with 50# power pro.
What "poundage" and which braided line do you prefer?
Thanks
Space
How about offering up some tips. what kind of tackle do you use?
I noticed that some guys like using rods up to 8 ft and there are those who use rods as short as 6ft. Any reason why? Looking for a rod, right now it looks like I am probably going to get a rod from the Lami braided line series in the 7ft range with 20-30lb test rating.
My reel is spooled up with 50# power pro.
What "poundage" and which braided line do you prefer?
Thanks
Space
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2,401 Posts
Hello Diamondwrapper , John
A NorthShore Sand bar with lots of green crabs eh? Hmmm….
Gamakatsu,
You want Hermit Crabs in December…. I have a contact and that's very doable. Eh..eh..eh…
Hello EC Newell Man!
With all due respect, I have to disagree with you about the hermit usage. Although tautog loves the Green crabs and White crabs in the cold weathers… I don't believe they will ignore a hermit crab! I've had many winter days where I've used Hermits against greenies… and the hermit got the hands down! In fact… Like the white crabs, once the tog got white crab taste in their mouth… They will ignore the greens at all cost!
Also, during the late Oct. - Dec months, Hermit crabs is considered the "golden bait" up in the Orient Pt.
BTW: If you see Greg and the two brothers from the Ocean Eagle.. Please send my regards and tell them that I will be back in Dec.!
"Crazy" Alberto
[email protected]
A NorthShore Sand bar with lots of green crabs eh? Hmmm….
Gamakatsu,
You want Hermit Crabs in December…. I have a contact and that's very doable. Eh..eh..eh…
Hello EC Newell Man!
With all due respect, I have to disagree with you about the hermit usage. Although tautog loves the Green crabs and White crabs in the cold weathers… I don't believe they will ignore a hermit crab! I've had many winter days where I've used Hermits against greenies… and the hermit got the hands down! In fact… Like the white crabs, once the tog got white crab taste in their mouth… They will ignore the greens at all cost!
Also, during the late Oct. - Dec months, Hermit crabs is considered the "golden bait" up in the Orient Pt.
BTW: If you see Greg and the two brothers from the Ocean Eagle.. Please send my regards and tell them that I will be back in Dec.!
"Crazy" Alberto
[email protected]
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2,401 Posts
Gottog wrote:
Gami, try sending Alberto a PM or an email...I know we used em at Orient Point...well the ones he didn't eat LOL
got tog?
____________________________
Hello Gottog
On our Orient Pt. charter... You can bet that there will be Hermits on board! Hey Gama… Send me an email regarding Hermits.
BTW: Next time I will let you do the taste testing!
"Crazy" Alberto
[email protected]
Gami, try sending Alberto a PM or an email...I know we used em at Orient Point...well the ones he didn't eat LOL
got tog?
____________________________
Hello Gottog
On our Orient Pt. charter... You can bet that there will be Hermits on board! Hey Gama… Send me an email regarding Hermits.
BTW: Next time I will let you do the taste testing!
"Crazy" Alberto
[email protected]
Joined
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1,548 Posts
Space,
currently I have three rods in my tog arsenal. The first is G.Loomis Bucarac BR915C 7'7" with a Penn 965 spooled with Fireline 30#
Next is my St Croix GMC70XH 7' teemed with an old Garcia Mitchell conventional(was my grandfathers) spooled with 30#PowerPro. My newest edition is the rod I think you're looking at, The Lamiglass BL7030C 7'. Still debating which reel to get for that rod but it'll probably be spooled with 30# Fireline.
I use a 7 to 12' leader of mono(25-40#) attached to the braid via an Alberto knot or a uni-to-uni knot. No hardware, just a loop at the end for the sinker and a dropper loop above(4 to 12" depending on conditions) which I attach a snelled hook to. The length of the leader on the hook depends on conditions such as current, etc.
I'm still learning and trying to refine my skills at tempting those bucktooth'd beauts.
currently I have three rods in my tog arsenal. The first is G.Loomis Bucarac BR915C 7'7" with a Penn 965 spooled with Fireline 30#
Next is my St Croix GMC70XH 7' teemed with an old Garcia Mitchell conventional(was my grandfathers) spooled with 30#PowerPro. My newest edition is the rod I think you're looking at, The Lamiglass BL7030C 7'. Still debating which reel to get for that rod but it'll probably be spooled with 30# Fireline.
I use a 7 to 12' leader of mono(25-40#) attached to the braid via an Alberto knot or a uni-to-uni knot. No hardware, just a loop at the end for the sinker and a dropper loop above(4 to 12" depending on conditions) which I attach a snelled hook to. The length of the leader on the hook depends on conditions such as current, etc.
I'm still learning and trying to refine my skills at tempting those bucktooth'd beauts.
Joined
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2,401 Posts
Hello Gottog,
Very nice - Those are decent tog outfits! Just wondering… what reel do you have in mind for that rod (Lamiglass BL7030C 7') ? Also.. Can you tell me which outfit you are planning to use at Orient Pt and 17?
OK tog SHARPIES,
I know you are out there…
I like to know your favorite whitechin arsenal. Cough it up!
"Crazy" Alberto
[email protected]
Very nice - Those are decent tog outfits! Just wondering… what reel do you have in mind for that rod (Lamiglass BL7030C 7') ? Also.. Can you tell me which outfit you are planning to use at Orient Pt and 17?
OK tog SHARPIES,
I know you are out there…
I like to know your favorite whitechin arsenal. Cough it up!
"Crazy" Alberto
[email protected]
tog
hey got tog, those are all killer outfits you "got " yourself there,
I agree with alberto on the hermit crab issue, they are killer in the spring,hands down the best, as for the fall, the tog put on there feed bags,so the whites being much easier to get are more than enough amo,
i will say this i dont wanna be the guy next someone using hermits and i dont have any,it could be a long day,until he looks away and a few "crawl out"..lol
hey al remember the bushel of hermits we had on the port jeff ace....that was some day, and the tog charter with jensen in the fall...yikes all 5 lb plus fish...
as for rods and reels i stick to an old lami 7 ft soft blank with a squidder spooled with 40lb test,
hey got tog, those are all killer outfits you "got " yourself there,
I agree with alberto on the hermit crab issue, they are killer in the spring,hands down the best, as for the fall, the tog put on there feed bags,so the whites being much easier to get are more than enough amo,
i will say this i dont wanna be the guy next someone using hermits and i dont have any,it could be a long day,until he looks away and a few "crawl out"..lol
hey al remember the bushel of hermits we had on the port jeff ace....that was some day, and the tog charter with jensen in the fall...yikes all 5 lb plus fish...
as for rods and reels i stick to an old lami 7 ft soft blank with a squidder spooled with 40lb test,
TOG BAITS>>>
HI Alberto.....no doubt that a hermit is a great tog bait, but we have always found that 1)they are a shallow water bait, that works best in the spring 2)do not work as well when you have heavy perch life on a wreck 3)are not the primary forage food for tautog once they move out into the deeper waters in the ocean. I thought about what you are trying to say, and right away i see your point. Yes a hermit crab works very well on the wrecks off and around Orient Pt. We do know that the area off the north fork is infested with hermits and green crabs, and that stone or white crabs prefer the ocean waters, instead of the sound water. But let me ask you this....if the current is roaring like it is usually when fishing those wrecks in the sound and the wind howling causing a nice sea, how many times are you going to miss a bite on a soft bait like a hermit, as compared to a stone crab?
Listen i know from years of commercially fishing for tog from Mass to Virginia, that we rarely if ever used a hermit crab out in the deep. No one i know does either...whether its the economics of buying the hermits as compared to a bushel of white crabs i do not think, plays that much into this. Commercial tog fishing crews, want to catch many fish, and would definitly find a way to get hermits, if it were the best bait in the winter. But we know its not, so thats why the white crab is used. I have seen on nasty days when guys bring their hermits to use in the winter on those deep water wrecks and the boat is rocking, that these guys are swinging wildly at bites, and coming up with nothing. And as i always said, the longer you are out of the water or have no bait on your hook, the fewer fish you will catch. Put a white crab down on a snafu rig, and you will see that you will catch more fish, and have a shot at the biggest fish. Listen its not my opinion, but its what the top tog guys who fish commercially do. But you guys keep buying your hermits. Its give us white crab fishermen a better shot at winning the pool. Like i said earlier, use the hermits in the spring when they do make a big difference over other baits.... I will tell Gregg you said hello.
EC NEWELL MAN>
HI Alberto.....no doubt that a hermit is a great tog bait, but we have always found that 1)they are a shallow water bait, that works best in the spring 2)do not work as well when you have heavy perch life on a wreck 3)are not the primary forage food for tautog once they move out into the deeper waters in the ocean. I thought about what you are trying to say, and right away i see your point. Yes a hermit crab works very well on the wrecks off and around Orient Pt. We do know that the area off the north fork is infested with hermits and green crabs, and that stone or white crabs prefer the ocean waters, instead of the sound water. But let me ask you this....if the current is roaring like it is usually when fishing those wrecks in the sound and the wind howling causing a nice sea, how many times are you going to miss a bite on a soft bait like a hermit, as compared to a stone crab?
Listen i know from years of commercially fishing for tog from Mass to Virginia, that we rarely if ever used a hermit crab out in the deep. No one i know does either...whether its the economics of buying the hermits as compared to a bushel of white crabs i do not think, plays that much into this. Commercial tog fishing crews, want to catch many fish, and would definitly find a way to get hermits, if it were the best bait in the winter. But we know its not, so thats why the white crab is used. I have seen on nasty days when guys bring their hermits to use in the winter on those deep water wrecks and the boat is rocking, that these guys are swinging wildly at bites, and coming up with nothing. And as i always said, the longer you are out of the water or have no bait on your hook, the fewer fish you will catch. Put a white crab down on a snafu rig, and you will see that you will catch more fish, and have a shot at the biggest fish. Listen its not my opinion, but its what the top tog guys who fish commercially do. But you guys keep buying your hermits. Its give us white crab fishermen a better shot at winning the pool. Like i said earlier, use the hermits in the spring when they do make a big difference over other baits.... I will tell Gregg you said hello.
EC NEWELL MAN>
TOG OUTFITS>>>>
Sheepshead tog outfits...Years ago you would go over to Mikes and pick out these blanks...
Fiddler fishing... Lami MB963M and cut tip slightly.
Spring fishing... Lami MB1143F cut back to 11 tip and slightly off the bottom to suit the fishermen due to its length.
Other options were the Mikes Special (inshore fiddler and great skimmer rod) and MB 1083M for early spring fishing down south off of Long Branch or in the channels.
Fall fishing...mid depths, MB1143F with 11 tip or cut to 12 tip, or Shakespeare GBU 84 series.
Winter fishing...MB1143F cut to 13 tip. Fenwick 1206 (especially when you knew their was a chance for cod) and MB1083M were also used.
Reels, newell 220, 4 to 1 and 3.6 ratios for shallow water. Newell 229 as your all around tog reel. Fall fishing, newell 322. For fishing the deeper if using mono, the newell 332 and 338 were used, but the newell 322 with 50lb spectra is all you need. Other then a sidewinder, the newell was by far the best tog reel around.
50lb power pro spectra, 4/0-5/0 gamakatsu octopus hook, and use either a 50lb or 60lb shock leader of 3 foot of trilene, ande or silver thread mono for abrasion resistance, especially when fishing reefs. Albright knot for connections. Tie hooks with both dupont stiff and softer perlon leader material depending on how the fish are biting, or make the traditional Montauk rig, where you make a dropper loop, cut one side of the loop and attach hook. Usually longer leaders when looking for bigger fish, but watch the current and shorten the leader when necessary if the rig keeps getting tangled on the line. Snafu with big crabs, but trim baits if the bite is picky....other then snafu rigs, use just one hook. Again cut crab legs if you are fishing areas with loads of current to prevent the bait from spinning. If using mono instead of spectra, their are only 3 lines to use: jinkai, momoi and silver thread. Use softer rods when using spectra, and don't stick like you are setting the hook into a tuna. Flat sinkers to prevent your rig from rolling around, but when fishing inshore, a bank sinker works fine when fishing on rocks. Double up the loop on the bottom and put the sinker through this loop.
Best all around blackfish rig...MB1143F with 11 tip, with newell 220 3.6 and 50
lb power pro. Years ago before their was spectra, Louie B, caught one of the 2 biggest blackfish seen in years, using
a newell 220. Its more then enough reel for any of the blackfishing we do off Long Island....
Catch-em-Up....
EC NEWELL MAN>>>>
Sheepshead tog outfits...Years ago you would go over to Mikes and pick out these blanks...
Fiddler fishing... Lami MB963M and cut tip slightly.
Spring fishing... Lami MB1143F cut back to 11 tip and slightly off the bottom to suit the fishermen due to its length.
Other options were the Mikes Special (inshore fiddler and great skimmer rod) and MB 1083M for early spring fishing down south off of Long Branch or in the channels.
Fall fishing...mid depths, MB1143F with 11 tip or cut to 12 tip, or Shakespeare GBU 84 series.
Winter fishing...MB1143F cut to 13 tip. Fenwick 1206 (especially when you knew their was a chance for cod) and MB1083M were also used.
Reels, newell 220, 4 to 1 and 3.6 ratios for shallow water. Newell 229 as your all around tog reel. Fall fishing, newell 322. For fishing the deeper if using mono, the newell 332 and 338 were used, but the newell 322 with 50lb spectra is all you need. Other then a sidewinder, the newell was by far the best tog reel around.
50lb power pro spectra, 4/0-5/0 gamakatsu octopus hook, and use either a 50lb or 60lb shock leader of 3 foot of trilene, ande or silver thread mono for abrasion resistance, especially when fishing reefs. Albright knot for connections. Tie hooks with both dupont stiff and softer perlon leader material depending on how the fish are biting, or make the traditional Montauk rig, where you make a dropper loop, cut one side of the loop and attach hook. Usually longer leaders when looking for bigger fish, but watch the current and shorten the leader when necessary if the rig keeps getting tangled on the line. Snafu with big crabs, but trim baits if the bite is picky....other then snafu rigs, use just one hook. Again cut crab legs if you are fishing areas with loads of current to prevent the bait from spinning. If using mono instead of spectra, their are only 3 lines to use: jinkai, momoi and silver thread. Use softer rods when using spectra, and don't stick like you are setting the hook into a tuna. Flat sinkers to prevent your rig from rolling around, but when fishing inshore, a bank sinker works fine when fishing on rocks. Double up the loop on the bottom and put the sinker through this loop.
Best all around blackfish rig...MB1143F with 11 tip, with newell 220 3.6 and 50
lb power pro. Years ago before their was spectra, Louie B, caught one of the 2 biggest blackfish seen in years, using
a newell 220. Its more then enough reel for any of the blackfishing we do off Long Island....
Catch-em-Up....
EC NEWELL MAN>>>>
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