NorEast Fishing Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got a small 16' V with a 48 hp Johnson, I have two batteries on board which need to be pulled and charged every 4th or 5th trip. The motor does not supply enough of a charge to keep the battery strong past the 5th trip so I change over to the spare battery. My question is if I install a battery switch which allows me to switch to either battery or both is it possible to charge the batteries with a battery charger without disconnecting the wiring and removing the batteries? Perhaps a point on the switch where you can place the charger cables and charge one or both through the switch? I bought a Perko but have not installed it. Or do I have to remove the battery, charge each one to full and then replace the cables that go to the switch? If thats the case it almost sounds easier to forgo the switch altogether since there is not much room under the transom to be screwing with a bunch of cabling from the batteries to the switch. Any input would be appreciated.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No I only run on one battery at a time if it starts to show signs of weakness I lay on my belly and change out the cabling to the second battery (thats why considering the switch). I don't know if you can charge more than one battery at a time with a battery charger. I heard you can run the boat with the switch in the BOTH mode and the motor in theory will charge both batteries, but that is not what I'm considering.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Loon

I have a dual battery setup with a perko switch. Sometimes when running I will switch to 'both' and charge both battries, but dont like to do that to often as I may forget and leave the switch on both back at the dock. I have had no problem hooking up a charger right to the connected battries and charged each one for whatever period needed.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
Not just any charger

Loon,

This should hopefully help you out. 1st make sure your batteries are newer less than 4-5 years old. If time to replace, I would consider a gel battery, And get the largest capacity you can fit.
Next get a battery charger like a Guest 2611 or a Statpower Truecharge. Either one will be around 100.00 dollars sometimes less. One that will mount on the boat.
I will give you an example using the Guest. The charger is connected directly to each battery. It will have 1 AC plug, and 2 pos. and neg. for battery connection. The chargers will run several types of tests on the batteries, then run a heavy charge to max level, reduce the charge, then run a maintain. The reason for this is to eliminate charging through the Perko and over charging your batteries, as well now you will be able to charge both at the same time. It is well worth the 100.00 dollars to have peice of mind.

As for hooking up your Perko, Do it. I think it will make life easier for you. I usually use identical batteries, Some guys run 2 different types. It will eliminate you having to lay down and switch the terminals. Some guys like to run on both in order to charge each of them. I will generally switch between the 2, One on one trip, one on the next trip. If I am out long I will switch between the 2 to keep both charged. Also I do the same in the cooler months. I NEVER run with the switch on both. I dont think that you will even consider doing this, because of the fact you are having trouble even charging one battery. I would also consider having your alternator rewired, or get a high output one put it. Here are some diagrams to get you started.
If you are set on wiring through the Perko here is a diagram.
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
Check your cables to make sure they are not rotted and if you put the switch in all selected means all dead. Switch off from 1-2 each trip or even each way. Good description of the on board charger and good winter project.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
13,099 Posts
loonzter, sounds to me like you have a problem beyond what benifits you will get from any battery switching devices. I would start by checking the dates on the batteries, more then 3 years old should make you suspicious, test both of them, test the alternator, check all terminal wires and ends for corrosion and making sure all connections are clean & secure.

That it what I would do as a starting point, battery selection switches are great, but they won't cure the problem.

just my $.02

MakoMatt
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Battery charging

In agreement - either you are drawing tons of juice (livewell?) or there's some problem w/ your electrical system.
A switch isn't a bad idea though - and an isolater is great for charging. As I think someone has allready stated, leaving two batteries allways run in parralell is bad news - and I think you have been avoiding that.

Possible problems might be your outboard isn't charging (probably rectifier), or as stated, bad terminals, bad battery, bad wire. You may want to double check the water level in those batteries, if they have the caps for it.

As far as batteries - I've never tried gel batteries, for my rig and budget, they seem to lack bang for the buck. If you can afford the same mca/cca/reserve you have currently in gel, go for it.. if not, I wouldn't skimp and would be more inclined to head to auto-zone and buy their top of the line marine "deep cycle + starting" - about $70 a piece. I've gone a couple on a set of these and they've been bumped/bashed around, and left in the cold, without any effect.

If your wire is in question, seriously consider adding new marine grade 2-guage for battery cable. It's not all that costly to just bite the bullet, buy the marine wire and terminals and do it right.

Just for ideas, on my boat I've got two batteries, two switches, and two seperate circuits (actually 3, ones AC). One circuit is for engine, and the others for accessories. As you do, I run one battery at a time per circuit; buy doing this, I guarantee one good battery for starting. It has worked well for me so far.

Jon
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,953 Posts
Load test

I thin kyou better load test your batteries before you do anything. A Load test will answer your cell life for your batties even if they are weak the load tester will give you a reading to see if the battery cells can still handle a charge? So buy a load tester or go to a machainc they will usually test them for free even sears may do it?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,679 Posts
Hi,

My first boat was a 16' starcraft with a 48spl. I had the same problem and installed the perko switch. The 48 spl only has a 2amp trickle charge which didn't cut it with the fishfinder, lights, and all the other stuff running at the same time along with multiple starts. I went overkill and bought 2 deep cycles. I had a $50 battery charger (which I still use) and would leave it on 2amp trickle charge with the switch set to both overnight or for a few days depending on the charge needed. Sometimes in a hurry I used the 10amp fast charge.

If I had the same rig I would probably buy 2 combination starting/deep cycle batteries vs two deep cycles. I guess as long as both batteries are the same type and size you can set the charger for both. It worked for me.

The switch is well worth the $$ and will save you from crawling around in a pitching boat trying to connect cables.

Capt. Marc
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Guys, as always great stuff and much appreciated! I didn't go overboard when buying my batteries, in fact because of the low HP (48) of the motor I purchased 2 of West Marines bargin, bottom of the line jobs (550's)and as you mentioned it could be they're life is reaching its's end. Load test would be the first step, Gels are a little expensive to justify for my boat but two new Marine lead acid batteries (start/deep cel) might be on my christmas list. Just to make sure I got it straight, when charging from home (I trailer) if I am using the Perko switch I would select the off position and put the charger on each battery separately (I have a auto battery charger from Sears). I would not select Both, connect the charger cables to one battery's terminals in an attempt to charge both batteries at the same time with my sears charger. And hopefully in the near future buy a bigger boat! Happy holidays!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
West Marine

loonzter,

Some of the higher end marine batteries may be worth it, but the low ends jobs you'll find at west marine or boatus or wherever are just really overpriced automotive type. After checking out auto-zone & WalMart and places like that, I was actually insulted at what West Marine gets for equivlant products.

Jon
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Three years ago West Marine had these batteries for $29 each. I spoke to one of the floor guys during a spring sale event and he said they would fit the bill for a small 48 hp motor. They have worked without a hitch since I purchased them. The only inconvience like I mentioned before is that after 4-5 trips I need to recharge that battery. I normally swap it with the reserve battery. This way I alternate between the active and reserve about every 4-5 outings. I considered putting in a Perko switch just to save me from laying under the stern to swap out cables but wasn't sure if you had to disconnect the batteries from the cabling before putting on a charger. What I got from you guys is if I keep the switch to off I can put the charger cables on the batteries one at a time and charge them right in the boat. I'll be waiting for the spring to install the switch, I already bought one. I suppose 6 - 8 gauge Marine wire will surfice for the connections? Is Marine cable more flexible than regular Automotive cable or is it just rust/corrosive resistant? Thanks for everyones input I value your opinions! tight lines, happy $ safe holidays
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I have a starter battery and a deep cycle battery on board with a Guest battery switch, and an automatic battery charger. However, I don't charge these batteries onboard as I'm concerned about the potential for explosion should the fumes that vent from the batteries during charging become excessive. It's a royal pain to remove them for charging. Is this a legitimate concern?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Battery and wiring questions

Hi,

$29 a piece is **** cheap; Would've been nice though if the West Marine guy might have suggested a little extra. Some of them are real pro's over there and boatus, some of em have never owned or dealt with more than paddles though. You allways want to go with a little extra on batteries - even with two.

Anyway, as far as cables, honestly even though it's only a 48 HP, it's still takes a bit to turn that starter. My unproffesional opinion - minimum of 4 guage battery cable, no reason to go any lower.

I'm not sure how aquainted you are with electrical stuff, but here's a little info. Pretty much the deal is that the larger the cable, within reason, the more efficiently it's going to carry the juice with. So, the end result of a little extra on battery cables is a little extra power available at the starter. You could turn that engine over with 12 guage cable, but it will require a much better charge on the battery as so much energy is lost in the trip (resistance - probably even heat with 12 guage).. so the battery may be pushing 60 amps at 12.5 volts out and the starter sees 60 amps at 11.5 volts or something.

The longer the cable run and the larger the amperage required, the more voltage loss you will see. You allways have some loss, but the idea is to minimize it - this makes it easier on the starter and battery. So.. if your batteries were up in the bow (for whatever reason).. I'd tell you a minimum of 2 guage etc. Check out a BOATUS or west marine catolog - they have a diagram showing voltage loss, with amps and distance of circuit as the variables. I'm a little picky about things, and like to shoot for 3% or less loss; shooting for 10% on the starter isn't probably a big deal.

As far as differences in cables, it's in the rating. There's a couple for automotive, which aren't bad, but aren't anywhere near as good as marine grade (ie brand name Anchor Marine Grade). Another difference is that marine grade cable is not just copper (or a mix of copper and who the **** knows what you get with cheap wire); marine grade is tinned copper - it's like galvanized steel, lasts much longer - looks silver colored. The other difference is that quality wire, (high end car stereo stuff included here) is basicly made of lots of small strands instead of thick pieces. For whatever reason, small strands transmit electricity even more efficiently; and yes, it's much more flexible and harder to break. Lastly, the sheath is better, and is probably actually waterproof.

Regular automotive wire tends to quickly corrode, even inside the middle of long passes; I'm not sure how it happens, but is probably a mix of the wire makeup itself and the sheath.

To add, any connection you make creates some resitance; to minimize that it's the same idea, use beefier connectors and tinned copper, pure copper isn't bad either, just not as good. Corrosion causes resistance. Marine grade connectors (large guage ones) have close ends - to keep the water out; marine grade shrink tube has hot glue inside to really seal out the mositure. Liquid electrical tape also helps quite a bit over the exposed metal terminals for safety and complete corrosion protection - peels right off when it's time to dissasseble too.

So.. my recomendation; it's much more expensive, but really worth it for a job done right - go marine grade everything. It will make the work of installing justified as it will perform and be trouble free for years (say a few easy, mabye 5-10). 4 guage to the switches and then to everything in the engines ciruit and give yourself some power posts along the way, for additions and accesory stuff. The first links between posts and batteries for accesories should have a good guage wire (mabye 8 in your case) and ciruit breakers ($15 - $20 for small ones, up to 50 amps or so) - then fuses in between accesories and posts etc.. go ape**** with liquid electrical tape on exposed metal, throw new good batteries into boxes (see WalMart or Auto-Zone) for additional safety/protection and you have a better than proffesional grade job in the end.

Jon
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,545 Posts
A couple of points to add, I do have a switch, and it does work to charge both batteries. I usually alternate batteries every time out, and when I am making a long run of more that 45-60 minutes I will turn the switch to the "both" position. As long as the batteries are relatively new, check the water level now and then, (use distilled water to fill) you should have no problems.
One last point, DO NOT CHANGE THE SWITCH POSITION WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING. I USE A REAL GOOD CERTIFIED MECHANIC WHO TOLD ME YOU COULD SHORT OUT THE MAIN ENGINE CIRCUT BOARD!!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
check out west marine catalog

pages 590 & 591 2002 catalog

they show a fool proof way to rig up your battery system.

i was shown this method many years ago by a boat builder in florida and have used it on all my boats since.

it requires zero thinking,
you cant possibly screw up and have the battery switch set wrong,
and all you have to do is turn 2 switches to the on position and go, when you come back in you turn them off.

i HIGHLY reccomend this method.

cost is about $100 more than doing it the way 99% of the boats are riggged.
but well worth it, you wont have a dead battery trying to start your motor.

the advise given by leakyrivot to overbuild your electircal system is great advise. it is only going to cost a few dollars more, but it will add years of service to your system and save you many headaches in the future.

i also use a product like corrosion block and spray it on all my electrical connections and panels several times a year, keeps everything corrosion free.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top