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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Better late than never - but this would have done much more good several years ago.

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Asbury Park Press By John Geiser - May 2, 2008 - The radical environmentalist dream of building summer flounder stocks to primeval levels is creating a deep rift in the angling community.
The Jersey Coast Anglers Association, an organization formed years ago to counterbalance the excesses of the state fisheries management bureauracy, has found itself in the center of the controversy.
Recreational fluke anglers are facing the harshest regulations in the history of the fishery this season. The future is even more grim.
The now retired director of the National Marine Fisheries Service, William T. Hogarth, last year described summer flounder management as an impending train wreck. In other words, poorly written laws and utopian goals to be reached at a specific date will destroy the fishery and ruin the recreation and industry dependent upon it.
The public is asking how this could happen? How could the sacrifices of 20 years, the frustration of releasing countless edible fish to build stock levels to record levels, bring even more pain and denial?
The shopper at the fish counter asks why flatfish fillets are $20 a pound, if they are available at all. The angler asks why his conservation efforts bring only more restrictions and a probable fishery closure in the face of stocks at an historic high.
The answer is so fraught with the complexity of ideology, politics, rivalries, dubious science and diverse stakeholders that an outsider might liken it more to a debate on the floor of the United Nations than a discussion on fisheries management in Congress.
Congress is where it all began. The lawmakers were sold a rebuilding dream by radical environmentalists supported by angling elitists. The vision of an ocean teeming with marine life untouched by the needs of humanity floated before them like a romantic novel.
The enormous funds of the Pew Charitable Trusts' Environment Group made this dream seem possible. This mighty river of cash flowed into the coffers of numerous environmental organizations that hired an army of lawyers, lobbyists, adminstrators and organizers to lay the groundwork.
These employees mapped out a strategy that affected the writing of the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act, a good law overall, but with certain provisions that enabled the radical environmental agenda to prosper.
Concurrently, these advocates put enormous pressure on the bureaucracy politically and economically. The scientific community obliged by creating terms like 'overfishing,' which can occur when a fish stock is not following a scientific script regardless of the extent of the harvest.
Once the law was in place, the descriptive terms created, and the scenarios were written, the rest was easy. The fishing community is suffering because of it.
The environmental lawyers and spokespeople and their elitist supporters, who wield enormous power in Washington, can now sit back and conduct the symphony. They counter dispute with 'It's the law' (their law, of course).
Raymond D. Bogan, lawyer for the United Boatmen, saw the crisis coming in the Magnuson legislation 11 years ago.
He warned about it and fought it in countless fisheries management meetings, hearings, and the courts. He predicted what would happen in the summer flounder fishery.
He and James A. Donofrio, executive director of the Recreational Fishing Alliance, collectively made over 100 trips to Washington to talk to congressmen in an attempt to persuade them not to include language in the most recent Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act reauthorization that would not only ruin the summer flounder fishery but other fisheries as well.
Bogan is a lawyer, and he knows how lawyers and bureaucrats work their wiles. He knew how the radicals, given an unending supply of money, would fashion their campaign. They followed his predictions exactly.
Bogan and Donofrio fought the antis doggedly in 2006, trying to get wording in the legislation that would provide flexibility, give fisheries management officials enough room to keep a growing fishery open when artificial timetables would demand its closure.
Opposed to them was the most vocal recipient of liberal giving from the Pew Foundation, the National Coalition for Marine Conservation, an organization with over 200 environmental member groups.
The coalition expanded its impact in 1992 when it joined with the Ocean Conservancy, Greenpeace, National Audubon Society, and the World Wildlife Fund to form the Marine Fish Conservation Network.
Everywhere Bogan and Donofrio turned in Washington they had to explain to mostly innocent legislators and their aides that all fisheries were not overfished in real numbers and did not have to be built to a given level by a fixed time. Further, that the coalition and the Network were not the voice of the millions of recreational and commercial fishermen involved in the fishery.
The response was typically: 'But the Network is made up of hundreds of environmental groups. Even your own fishermen ? the Jersey Coast Anglers Association ? are members of the Network.'
'It was frustrating,' Bogan admitted. 'We were trying to save the summer flounder fishery in particular, and they were using our own people against us.'
Greg Hueth, president of the Shark River Surf Anglers, said his club members were so upset and frustrated that their club was actually being counted as supporting the Network's position through its membership in the JCAA that they quit the organization.
Thomas P. Fote, legislative chairman of the Jersey Coast Anglers Association, defended that organization's participation in the Marine Fish Conservation Network in its newsletters.
'JCAA decided to participate (in 1994) to ensure that the recreational interests and our point of view were represented in the Network,' he said. 'Some major recreational groups approached JCAA and asked us to serve on the board in 2001 to represent all of our interests including keeping the marine protected areas off the Marine Fish Conservation Network agenda.'
Fote mentioned other issues such as endocrine disruptors, water quality, protecting menhaden and increased funding for marine science that the Network pushes for.
'The general consensus of the JCAA membership maintains that there is still value in being represented in the Network,' Fote emphasized. 'We worked hard to get the Network to refrain from sending a letter on the summer flounder issue that would argue for a much reduced quota.
'Fishing groups that do not belong to the Network cannot influence its decisions,' he added. 'The JCAA will try to steer it to also represent the best interests of the angling community.' Bogan responded to Fote by e-mail after reading the explanation in the JCAA's newsletter.
'The damage has been done,' he pointed out. 'In that same regard, the Network not sending a letter on the total allowable landings doesn't feel much like a victory. The Network already won.
'Should recreational fishermen be grateful that it didn't ask for a more restrictive total allowable landing when we're looking at more pain and suffering in '08, and a possible closure in '09 because of the Network's 'successes' with the Magnuson-Stevens Act?
'I wish JCAA hadn't been part of the Network's successful campaign to impose the unprecedented restrictions contained in the MSA which effectively drained the MSA of any flexibility, but it was,' he continued.
'We were successful in beating back the one-year 'end to overfishing' championed by the Network, although not successful enough,' he added. 'As you know, that provision is one of the main reasons the three-year extension to the rebuilding schedule was negated.'
Fote replied that fishermen do not know that he spent 26 days in Washington in 2006 and 21 days in 2007 trying to educate congressmen and their staffs about the problems New Jersey anglers have with fisheries management, and hundreds of hours in meetings and on the phone trying to persuade environmental organizations not to destroy participation in the summer flounder fishery.
'You probably know that when you and John Toth (president of the JCAA) argue that you are working from the inside to sway the enviro industry, it hasn't been selling very well on the docks and in the tackle shops,' Bogan replied. 'People know the harm done already by the Network,' he continued. 'No matter how you slice it or rationalize it, as a member of the Network, JCAA supported legislation that is helping to destroy a way of life.
'I appreciate JCAA getting up at meetings and saying how bad things are for fishermen, and that there won't be any fishermen or infrastructure left to enjoy recovered stocks,' he stressed.
'The problem is that the policy of the Network and others successfully advocated is largely responsible for this outcome,' he added. 'That policy became the law of the land and people's livelihoods and access to the resource are being taken away because of it.
'Unless you agree with the outcome, I don't quite understand how the JCAA's inside connections helped its constituents,' he emphasized. 'I wasn't the only one who was told by congressmen and staff that the support of the Network and its members helped convince them to support some of the most onerous provisions of the Magnuson-Stevens Act amendments.
'JCAA was part of the 'winning team,' and the recreational fisherman has lost,' Bogan concluded.

This post edited by NilsS 03:13 PM 05/07/2008
 

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Its about time the press got the story straight. Except for this one line:

"The vision of an ocean teeming with marine life untouched by the needs of humanity floated before them like a romantic novel."

Politicians care only for cash and the votes and power it can buy.
 

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Pure BS

Yea let?s blame it on Tom Fote and JCAA. What a bunch of bull. That guy has done more for recreational anglers then anyone on the planet. The recreational anglers in his state get more access to fish then any other state in the northeast and Tom is a big reason for it. I did my editorial on this very subject.

Below are the members of the Marine Fish Conservation Network minus JCAA. Im sure there's a few names there that you'll recognize. It?s a shame that anyone would single them out over this. Politics some has strange bedfellows, and all groups are not going to agree with each and each and every position taken.

Abalone and Marine Resources Council
African American Environmentalist Association
Alabama Rivers Alliance
Alaska Longline Fishermen's Association
Alaska Marine Conservation Council
Alaska Oceans Network
Alaska Oceans Program
American Littoral Society
American Littoral Society-SE Chapter
American Sportsfishing Association
Apalachee Ecological Conservancy, Inc.
Aquarium of the Pacific
Aquatic Resources, Inc.
Arizona Public Interest Research Group (Arizona PIRG)
Artificial Reefs, Inc and Coastal Restoration, Inc
Atlantic Salmon Federation
Audubon Society of Portland
Billfish Tournament Network
Cabrillo Marine Aquarium
California Artificial Reef Enhancement (CARE)Program
California Coastkeeper
Cape Arago Audubon Society
Cape Cod Commercial Hook Fishermen's Association
Caribbean Conservation Corporation
Center for Biological Diversity
Center for Chesapeake Communities
Center for Cetacean Research and Conservation
Center for Coastal Studies
The Center for Food Safety
Chesapeake Bay Foundation
Citizens Campaign for the Environment
Clark Stuart Resources
Coastal Research and Education, Inc.
Coastal Waters Project
Colorado's Ocean Journey
Columbia Deepening Opposition Group
Columbia River Crab Fishermen's Association
Columbia River Estuary Study Taskforce
Columbia River Fishermen's Protective Union
Columbia Riverkeeper
Concerned Citizens of Montauk
Connecticut Surfcasters
Conservation Law Foundation
Conservation Science Institute
Cook Inletkeeper
The Cousteau Society
Defenders of Wildlife
Earth Economics
Earthjustice Legal Defense Fund
EcoFish
ECO-tech LTD
Endangered Species Coalition
Environment Colorado
Environment Florida
Environment Hawaii
Environment Maryland
Environment Michigan
Environment North Carolina
Farallones Marine Sanctuary Association
Federation of Fly Fishers
Fish Forever
Fish Unlimited
Fisheries Defense Fund, Inc.
Fishntexas
Florida Fishermen's Federation
Florida Keys Commercial Fishmermen's Assoc.
Florida Fishermen's Federation
Food and Water Watch
Friends of the Earth
Friends of the San Juans
Friends of the Sea Otter
Fulton Safe Drinking Water Action Committee
Golden Gate Audubon Society
Greenpeace
Greater Newark Conservancy
Green Fire Productions
Gulf Restoration Network
Gulf Specimen Marine Laboratories, Inc
H and D International
Habitat Media
Hawaii Audubon Society
Hawaii Conservation Association
Hawaii Fishing and Boating
Heal the Bay
Humboldt Fisherman's Marketing Association
Hydro Glow, Inc.
Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy
Institute for Fisheries Resources
Interfaith Council for Protection of Animals and Nature
International Game Fish Association
International Wildlife Coalition
Intersea Foundation, Inc.
The Island Anglers
Island Institute
Jenkinson's Aquarium
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KAHEA: The Hawaiian-Environmental Alliance
King and Sons Fishing Company
Marine Conservation Biology Institute
Marine Mammal Conservancy, Inc.
Marine Resources Council of East Florida
Marine Stewardship Council
Marlin Magazine
Maryland Conservation Council
The Marine Mammal Center
Massachusetts Audubon Society
Massachusetts Wildlife Federation
Monterey Bay Aquarium
Narragansett Baykeeper
National Aquarium
National Audubon Society
National Audubon Society, Ten Mile Creek
National Coalition for Marine Conservation
National Environmental Trust
National Fishing Association
National Marine Life Center
National Parks and Conservation Association
National Wildlife Federation
Natural Resources Defense Council
New England Aquarium
New Hampshire Public Interest Research Group (NHPIRG)
New Jersey Public Interest Research Group (NJPIRG)
Newport County Saltwater Fishing Club
www.NYCTFISHING.com
Northcoast Environmental Center
Northwest Environmental Advocates
Oceana
The Ocean Conservancy
OceanPeople Resources
Oceanic Resource Foundation
Ocean Policy Associates
Oceans Alert
OCEAN Magazine
Oceanwatch
Oregon Shores Conservation Coalition
OSPIRG
Oregon Trout
Oregon Wildlife Federation
Pacific Cetacean Group
Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen's Associations
Pacifc Environment
Pacifc Marine Conservation Council
Pacific Whale Foundation
People for Puget Sound
Planning and Conservation League
Prairie Rivers Network
Prime Seafood
Project A.W.A.R.E. Foundation
Public Citizen
REEF (Reef Environmental Education Foundation)
Reef Check Foundation
Reef Relief
ReefKeeper International
REP America (Republicans for Environmental Protection)
Restore America's Estuaries
Riverkeeper, Inc.
Salmon for All
Save Our Shores
Save San Francisco Bay Association
Save the Bay (Providence, RI)
Save the Harbor / Save the Bay (Boston, MA)
Save the Sound
Save the Whales
Save Wetlands and Bays
Seaflow
Sea Turtle Restoration Project - Texas
Sea Turtle Survival League
Seattle Aquarium
SeaWeb
Sierra Club
Signature Salmon
The Siwa-ban Foundation
The Society for Ocean Sciences
South Carolina Aquarium
South Carolina Coastal Conservation League
Sport Fishing Magazine
Stripers Unlimited
Surfers Environmental Alliance
Sustainable Fisheries Foundation
SWIM (Safer Waters in Massachusetts)
Tampa Baywatch, Inc.
Trustees for Alaska
UnderWater World Guam
United Anglers of California
United Pier and Shore Anglers of California
U.S. PIRG
The Watchperson Project
WashPIRG
Washington State Council, Federation of Fly Fishers
The Whale Center of New England
WiLDCOAST
Wildlife Conservation Society
Wisconsin Public Interest Research Group (WISPIRG)
World Wildlife Fund
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
George -

It's unfortunate that Mr. Geiser had to include in his piece both the Pew/MFCN stuff and the problems between JCAA and the RFA, but that's how it came down.

Ref the MFCN, a column I did in the March 2007 National Fisherman:

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"In a letter to the editor of the New Bedford Standard Times on January 3, Gib Brogan, Campaign Projects Manager for Oceana, wrote that the paper was at fault for identifying ?Oceana and other nongovernmental organizations as being the only opposition to weak rebuilding provisions proposed by Rep. Barney Frank as part of the reauthorized Magnuson-Stevens Act.? He continued ?a wide range of groups opposed Rep. Frank's proposal to weaken rules intended to rebuild our nation's fisheries.?

But when he expanded on this, his list of groups was awfully short. As a matter of fact, it went no farther than ?the Marine Fish Conservation Network. a coalition that includes commercial fishermen and fishing groups in its membership.?

Now the Marine Fish Conservation Network (MFCN) is an organization that I?m somewhat familiar with, having devoted some significant time researching and several hundred words writing about it in a recent FishNet (see http://www.fishnet-usa.com/reauthor_one.html).

From the tone of Mr. Brogan?s letter, the uninformed reader would think that the MFCN might be a large and diverse group of ?concerned? fishing- and ocean-related organizations, all with a common interest and all disconnected from Oceana. Large? Perhaps. Diverse? Not likely, at least if one is a believer in Deep Throat?s ?follow the money? philosophy. And disconnected from Oceana? Consider the following and draw your own conclusion.

Last fall the MFCN, along with the National Environmental Trust, ran an ad in the Washington Times stating that Congressman Frank?s version of a retooled Magnuson Act ??contains loopholes that will increase overfishing.? At that point the National Environmental Trust, the MFCN and Oceana had shared over $60 million doled out by our favorite ?charitable? trust (which, to spare the feelings of some of my more sensitive readers, I?ll only identify as OFCT.)

And what about those ?commercial fisherman and fishing groups? in the MFCN membership? The MFCN website listed perhaps a dozen groups that can be readily identified as commercial fishing-oriented. From the FishNet cited above, ?at least half have what appear to be substantial ties with OFCT. Pat White, past Executive Director of the Maine Lobstermen?s Association, and Pietro Parravano, President of the Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen?s Associations (PCFFA) were both members of the OFCT Oceans Commission. The Cape Cod Commercial Hook Fishermen?s Association has been funded by OFCT. The Institute For Fisheries Research (IFR) is a spin-off of the PCFFA. Salmon For All is a member of both the PCFFA and Save Our Wild Salmon Coalition, which has received upwards of $5 million from Pew. David Hallowell of the Humboldt Fishermen's Marketing Association is listed as a Board member of the IFR.?

Of course, nothing?s wrong with any of these folks or organizations getting funding or seeking alliances or working with whatever or whoever they wish, and I?m definitely not implying that there is. But I don?t think it?s much of a stretch to suspect that there might be some connections there that go a bit farther than an interest in the oceans and the fish in ?em.

Of the remaining 170 or so members of the MFCN, over a dozen have received more than a quarter of a million dollars each from OFCT. Some of them have received much, much more. Over $20 million for Earth Justice Legal Defense, $8 million for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, $4 million for Seaweb, almost $5 million for Audubon, but you?re all familiar with the drill by now.

And, of course, there are a whole bunch of organizations representing competing users of the oceans? resources; primarily recreational fishing and diving groups.

The range of the groups Mr. Brogan writes about seems to be much more narrow than he would apparently have his readers believe. The big guys are all dipping into the same barrel of cash, as are many of the smaller ones. The commercial fishing groups can be tied to the folks that keep that barrel filled, and many of the rest see that the MFCN agenda, which is opposed by most fishermen, might accordingly have some pay-offs down the road for them.

Wide range of groups, Mr. Brogan? You?re going to have to try a lot harder than that."

This post edited by NilsS 04:06 PM 05/07/2008
 

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noreast wrote:
Yea let?s blame it on Tom Fote and JCAA. What a bunch of bull. That guy has done more for recreational anglers then anyone on the planet. The recreational anglers in his state get more access to fish then any other state in the northeast and Tom is a big reason for it. I did my editorial on this very subject.

Below are the members of the Marine Fish Conservation Network minus JCAA. Im sure there's a few names there that you'll recognize. It?s a shame that anyone would single them out over this. Politics some has strange bedfellows, and all groups are not going to agree with each and each and every position taken.

George, perhaps you should stick to NY issues,(I'm bustin' your stones by the way with that one) but seriously I believe you are missing the point with your comments.

If you actually read the whole article you'd realize that MFCN SPECIFICALLY used and uses the JCAA name to legitimize their efforts.

It ties directly to the whole article, since MFCN, COOL and others are using the recreational fishing organizations that have given them use of their names through direct membership as a hammer to beat back the recreational lobbying efforts. Sure, if John had 3 pages to print he could have mentioned others as well, but was that really needed?

It is, after all, a NEW JERSEY newspaper so it only makes sense to concentrate on the NEW JERSEY organization that is a member of the Network.

by the by, RISAA recently pulled out of MFCN for the very reasons I mention (and mentioned in the article) and several clubs have pulled out of JCAA over their continued membership in the network.

This is not about an anti-JCAA thing, even though some will come on here and try to pretend it is. The Fisherman ran an editorial about it's issues with JCAA and MFCN, JCAA came back with a response, the whole thing tied into the overarching issue with the anti-fishing lobby.

But, your comments about Tom and JCAA are not germaine to the point or the article. No one questions the efforts of Tom, I should know I have spent years working with him on various issues, and we still do even to this day. JCAA is not just Tom Fote. ****, John Toth was at the SSFFF dinner. We realize this is bigger than any one group, but for some reason JCAA refuses to see the damage it has done by staying as members of MFCN. They keep saying they are trying to work from the inside, but for some reason cannot see that the rest of us are dying on the outside as a result, in part, to their membership in the network. It was done with the best of intentions, but it has failed miserably. Hopefully they will realize this before more damage is done. I certainly hope so since I truly believe we are stronger together than apart.

That,ho wever, does not negate the fact that one of the very reasons we are facing this problem with Magnuson is because when we tried to fight MFCN during the re-authorization, they use JCAA's and other rec groups membership to claim they speak for enviro's AND fishermen.

This is old news in New Jersey, it's time to focus on the real problems, the science and the Law.

SSFFF has taken the lead on the science end and is trying to help RFA and others with the legislative end. At least this time MFCN has one less rec fishing group to claim it represents (RISAA) perhaps that number will drop even lower in the future.

One can only hope. We need to work together, not fight amongst ourselves. But, that does not mean we hide our heads in the sand and pretend that JCAA's and other groups' membership in MFCN is not a major road block, because in reality it is.

It's one thing to work with groups when your goals are the same (UB has been doing it for decades) it's another to put your name on their letterhead.

One encouraging thing is that a recent MFCN announcement singled out ASA and JCAA as NOT agreeing with their position. If nothing else, the heightened awareness of recreational fishing group's participation in the network has made them more diligent in watching when MFCN does or does not say who they speak for. I for one applaud JCAA for making them put that "exception" in there. Now it's time, in my own personal opinion...I am not a member of JCAA so I cannot tel them what to do..... it's time for rec groups in general to realize that when you sleep with the devil you are likely to get burned, and unfortunately many of us have the "second hand burns" to prove it. We didn't join, but we felt the heat from the results of those who did.

Capt.TB

This post edited by CaptTB 07:16 PM 05/07/2008
 

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CaptTB wrote:

One encouraging thing is that a recent MFCN announcement singled out ASA and JCAA as NOT agreeing with their position.
I personally think that says it all Tony.

You and I agree on a vast majority of issues facing our industry today, but JCAA and Tom Fote have taken a lot of heat over this, and right or wrong on this issue, any club or person, or editor that drops out over this, is too quick to forget all of the good they have done over the years.
 

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noreast wrote:

I personally think that says it all Tony.

You and I agree on a vast majority of issues facing our industry today, but JCAA and Tom Fote have taken a lot of heat over this, and right or wrong on this issue, any club or person, or editor that drops out over this, is too quick to forget all of the good they have done over the years.

George, my take on it was not a "screw you, see ya later" thing with those who have backed out. To me, and this is in part based on conversations I have had with some of those that did pull out, was partly that they hoped it would wake JCAA up to the damage that has been done an continues to be done, but more so that they as recreational fishing clubs did not wish to continue to be associated with MFCN. JCAA's refusal to pull out of MFCN forced their hands in their minds, and I happen to agree with that sentiment.

Also, no one is forgetting what has been done, except JCAA. They are forgetting the damage that their association with MFCN has done, and continues to be done, while steadfastly clinging to an ideal that never came to be. As I have said before, it was done with the best of intentions but has, in my opinion and many others, failed miserably.

But they must do what they feel is right, and so must the rest of us.

I still take comfort in the knowledge that on the issue of Magnuson, Fluke and many other issues JCAA and many other groups are not only on the same page but continue to work together. THAT is the truly important thing and John, Tom, Tom and others at JCAA know that as well as you, me or anyone else. While we (meaning myself and some at JCAA) disagree on this issue we continue to fight for the same goals.
 

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I thought ASA were the good guys??

It pains me to have to post this because it is utter nonsense. But it is needed for context in my next post.

What follows is an article posted in a thread STARTED by CaptTB on another website on 5/5/2008. There were no replies. Oddly, he decided not to post it here (unless I missed it). Again, I apologize in advance for posting it here, but what went through my mind when I read it is: Why on earth would a Executive Committee member of SSFFF initiate this post? Maybe he can tell us now.

Also going through my mind is that John Geiser, like Jim Hutchinson Jr. at The Fisherman, has demonstrably lost whatever shred of jounalistic objectivity he ever had....

quote:
ASA's recent actions slap in the face to anglers

BY John Geiser ? STAFF COLUMNIST ? May 3, 2008

The American Sportfishing Association let summer flounder anglers down in a big way last week.

The ASA announced a six-point plan to address the problems in the fishery, which is no more than a hot air balloon rising over ASA headquarters in Alexandria, Va.

The fishery needs help ? quickly. The ASA's refusal to back a bill introduced by Rep. Frank Pallone Jr., D-NJ, to get flexibility written into the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act is a slap at coastal anglers.Save the Summer Flounder Fishery Fund was hoping the ASA would back Pallone's bill. Congress would listen to the ASA, which claims to represent America's 40 million anglers.

What congressman in his right mind would vote to keep a damper on an industry that generates over $45 billion in retail sales with a $125 billion impact on the nation's economy, creating employment for over one million people?News broadcasts talk daily about a faltering economy, and here is a way to put life in it without costing the nation a cent or adversely impacting one citizen. Sportfishing is big business. Even the radical environmentalists would benefit from flexibility in fisheries management. It would ensure their jobs.

Rigid timetables to reach arbitrary stock building goals now tie the hands of fisheries management officials and threaten to destroy the summer flounder fishery despite record biomass levels.

Gordon Robertson, vice president of the ASA, recognizes what is at stake with fluke."This fishery is one of the most important sportfish on the U.S. Atlantic coast,' he said. "Clearly such an action (threatened closure of the fishery) would reduce recreational fishing opportunity, and have a negative impact on the sportfishing businesses which depend on summer flounder. "The irony of this threat is that summer flounder stocks in the Atlantic are at a 40-year high,' he added.

The ASA's six-point plan was approved by the ASA Government Affairs Committee at its April meeting in California, and was announced on Wednesday.

The committee should be embarrassed that the points are offered as a solution to the problem.

The first is to encourage states to set regulations to stay within their recreational allocations. When have they set the rules to go over?

The second is to ask the federal government to conduct an economic impact study of the recreational and commercial sectors and reallocate the quota more equitably between the two sectors. This is new? How about a fluke hatchery?

The third is to ask the National Marine Fisheries Service to improve its angler participation data. That request went in three years ago. NMFS is working on it.

The fourth is to determine the target biomass for fluke and improve the science review. That is what SSFFF has been doing for the last six months.

The fifth is request that the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council follow the advice provided by its science and statistical committee. Whose advice does the council follow? An S&S committee from the Gulf Council?

The sixth is begin discussions among fishery groups for congressional action seeking a buyout of available summer flounder commercial fisheries. Try and accomplish that before 2012.

Ben Moore, vice president of Boater's World and ASA saltwater subcommittee chairman, said the actions were chosen because they can be acted on now with a reasonable chance for success. "The committee reviewed a wide range of actions, including legislation, but found that these six points were the most effective and most likely to succeed,' he said.

Phil Morlock, government affairs committee member and environmental affairs director at Shimano, said the members are concerned about the growing problems. "The committee members are very aware of the significant negative economic impacts for the fishing tackle industry and related businesses, if the summer flounder issue is not addressed

This post edited by flatts1b 12:20 AM 05/10/2008
 

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Witch Hunt

quote:
From George Scocca's "Publisher's Angle":

A few weeks ago I received a call from a friend telling me that the editor of The Fisherman magazine attacked the JCAA because of their affiliation with the Marine Fish Conservation Network. My first thought was "what is he nuts - JCAA?" and then my second thought was, "Yep, he's got to be." This guy, who has JCAA in his blood, has done more than anyone for his state of NJ, and has never had a bad thing to say, even to me about The Fisherman, is being attacked for what!

I would first like to point out that while Nor'east Saltwater and The Fisherman have butted heads over the years, they were very supportive of our family when my brother was battling cancer, and I will always be grateful for that. But Tom is a good friend and as I see it, this attack by their Executive Editor, Jim Hutchinson, Jr., was unwarranted and potentially harmful to all recreational anglers in NJ.

Thanks George for not getting caught up in the concerted witch hunt, by SSFFF and the NJ fish-press, against JCAA and also ASA. Indeed, who would have thought that ASA would be attacked by the New Jersey press, not for what they did or said - but for what they DIDN'T say or do. (they were simply silent on the HR 5425).

Here is what I don't get, and maybe CaptTB can help me out here. Tony, how is your posting of an article entitled, "ASA's recent actions slap in the face to anglers", not to be taken as a "slap in the face" by you toward ASA?

The Jersey Coast Anglers Association (JCAA) and the American Sportfishing Association (ASA) are both either supporters of the Save The Summer Flounder Fishery Fund (SSFFF) or are working with you on Fluke. ASA even donated a 17' Mako to SSFFF to be raffled to help fund better science. That's a boat, motor, and trailer!!!! What is the estimated value of that? Over 20,000 is my guess.

More here: http://www.ssfff.net/id59.html

And recently the JCAA board responded to Jim Hutchingson Jr.'s hit piece against JCAA in The Fisherman with...

quote:
Excerpt:

JCAA has always sought to form partnerships with the goal of dealing with major issues and accomplishing positive results. Currently, JCAA is a member of the Partnership for Mid-Atlantic Fisheries Science Inc. (PFMAFS). Garden State Seafood Association (GSSA), RFA, United Boatmen of NY and NJ and SSFFF are all members of this partnership that has the goal of arriving at better science to accurately assess fish stocks for management purposes.

So if JCAA and/or ASA are...

1) NOT SPEAKING OUT AGAINST SSFFF AT ALL
2) WORKING WITH SSFFF AT LEAST ON THE GOAL OF IMPROVING THE SCIENCE
3) DONATING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO SSFFF (ASA)
4) SHELLING OUT $15,000 CASH TO IMPROVE FLUKE SCIENCE (JCAA)

...then why all of the bashing against JCAA and ASA. I just don't get the clear effort to divide the recreational community THAT CLEARLY HAS ITS EPICENTER IN OR NEAR NEW JERSEY.

But then again , I don't understand a lot that occurs in NJ. So can someone explain it to me?

Believe me. I have been a target myself by those down there who view the world as you-are-either-with-us-100%-or-you-are-against-us.

But this really takes things to new levels doesn't it??

Thanks,
Mike Flaherty
A recreational fisherman from Wareham, MA

P.S.
George, congrats on that prime advertising space in the JCAA newsletter.

This post edited by flatts1b 06:04 AM 05/09/2008
 

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I'm not attempting to answer for Tony B....

but, often being in the position of sharing published material on the internet myself, I must point out that I don't always agree with the stuff I post and I don't always post it as a way of endorsing it. (Actually, this is a technique that Mike FLaherty often employees, though I'm not compulsive enough to go back and dig up any of the posts he's made which are nothing more than repostings of my material with his self-important comments attached. That has much more the feeling of a "witch hunt" than does this, yet another supposed issue that he is intent on creating))

Rather, I often post stuff to inform people of what other people and/or organizations are thinking and writing on particular issues. The ASA is obviously an important actor in the fluke debacle, as is the JCAA, the RFA, United Boatmen, Pew, GSSA, John Geiser, etc. I suspect that's what Tony did here, but again, I'm not trying to speak for him.

As I've commented seemingly endless times before, Mike/Flatts/whoever, if you wish to dispute stuff you read, the most effective way of doing it is by disputing the facts in it. Your endless rehashing, reposting, reinterpreting and for all I know reinventing other peoples words and bouncing them from place to place on the web in your futile attempts to discredit those of us who don't agree with your warped views of what fisheries management should be about are puerile at best and would fit (and work) much better on Facebook or one of those other web-based exercises in pubescent group unthink.

This post edited by NilsS 08:05 AM 05/09/2008
 

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NilsS wrote:
but, often being in the position of sharing published material on the internet myself, I must point out that I don't always agree with the stuff I post and I don't always post it as a way of endorsing it. (Actually, this is a technique that Mike FLaherty often employees, though I'm not compulsive enough to go back and dig up any of the posts he's made which are nothing more than repostings of my material with his self-important comments attached. That has much more the feeling of a "witch hunt" than does this, yet another supposed issue that he is intent on creating))

Rather, I often post stuff to inform people of what other people and/or organizations are thinking and writing on particular issues. The ASA is obviously an important actor in the fluke debacle, as is the JCAA, the RFA, United Boatmen, Pew, GSSA, John Geiser, etc. I suspect that's what Tony did here, but again, I'm not trying to speak for him.

As I've commented seemingly endless times before, Mike/Flatts/whoever, if you wish to dispute stuff you read, the most effective way of doing it is by disputing the facts in it. Your endless rehashing, reposting, reinterpreting and for all I know reinventing other peoples words and bouncing them from place to place on the web in your futile attempts to discredit those of us who don't agree with your warped views of what fisheries management should be about are puerile at best and would fit (and work) much better on Facebook or one of those other web-based exercises in pubescent group unthink.

Nils, I can only assume from your post that my buddy Flatts is at it again. I was e-mailed some snippets from his post as well. I do not know in full and could care less what kinds of lies and misinformation he is spreading. The only thing I have seen of Mike's posts on this site is

"You are currently ignoring this user"

Thank you for your response, you pretty well summed things up Nils.
 

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CaptTB wrote:
NilsS wrote:
but, often being in the position of sharing published material on the internet myself, I must point out that I don't always agree with the stuff I post and I don't always post it as a way of endorsing it. (Actually, this is a technique that Mike FLaherty often employees, though I'm not compulsive enough to go back and dig up any of the posts he's made which are nothing more than repostings of my material with his self-important comments attached. That has much more the feeling of a "witch hunt" than does this, yet another supposed issue that he is intent on creating))

Rather, I often post stuff to inform people of what other people and/or organizations are thinking and writing on particular issues. The ASA is obviously an important actor in the fluke debacle, as is the JCAA, the RFA, United Boatmen, Pew, GSSA, John Geiser, etc. I suspect that's what Tony did here, but again, I'm not trying to speak for him.

As I've commented seemingly endless times before, Mike/Flatts/whoever, if you wish to dispute stuff you read, the most effective way of doing it is by disputing the facts in it. Your endless rehashing, reposting, reinterpreting and for all I know reinventing other peoples words and bouncing them from place to place on the web in your futile attempts to discredit those of us who don't agree with your warped views of what fisheries management should be about are puerile at best and would fit (and work) much better on Facebook or one of those other web-based exercises in pubescent group unthink.

Nils, I can only assume from your post that my buddy Flatts is at it again. I was e-mailed some snippets from his post as well. I do not know in full and could care less what kinds of lies and misinformation he is spreading. The only thing I have seen of Mike's posts on this site is

"You are currently ignoring this user"

Thank you for your response, you pretty well summed things up Nils.

Mike neither lied or spread misinformation.

A false accusation of spreading lies and misonformation in fact, makes you, Tony, the spreader of lies and misinformation.

But that is nothing new for you, is it, Tony?
 

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MichaelJD wrote:


Mike neither lied or spread misinformation.

A false accusation of spreading lies and misonformation in fact, makes you, Tony, the spreader of lies and misinformation.

But that is nothing new for you, is it, Tony?

Actually, he did. However, after my post, and over a day after his, he edited the post to which I was referring.

You see, Mike has been told not once, not twice, but 3 or more times in various threads that I am not, have never been and will never be a Board of Director of SSFFF. Nevertheless, he continues to claim that I am, even after being told several times, by me, that I am not.

Since he corrected that error, I never pursued it any further. It was you that brought things back up, but talking about things of which you have no clue has become par for the course with you, so I am not surprised.

Suffice to say I am glad you chose this site to start posting on, I can simply save myself some side splitting laughter from reading your posts, which while enjoyable slows down my reading time, by simply ignoring you as I have done for several years now.

Have a nice one Mike, good to see the tugboat gives you some time off to post on sites.

Capt.TB
 

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Get over yourself, Tony.

quote:
Actually, he did. However, after my post, and over a day after his, he edited the post to which I was referring.

You see, Mike has been told not once, not twice, but 3 or more times in various threads that I am not, have never been and will never be a Board of Director of SSFFF. Nevertheless, he continues to claim that I am, even after being told several times, by me, that I am not.

Huh? WOW!!!

Tony, I don't ever recall you having an aversion to being on the SSFFF Board. Sorry if I missed it. Now that I think of it though, I do recall something about you buying the SSFFF domain name and maybe something was discussed way back then

Anyway, all I did was say (originally) that you were on the board of SSFFF. That was my recollection from the SSFFF website itself.

Then I got a polite message from a Noreast moderator to make the correction. So I looked at the SSFFF website again and I noticed that you were listed under the "Executive Committee". So I made the necessary correction.

That's called an honest mistake, Tony. Not a lie.

Man, no wonder why everyone outside of NJ that I talk to can't work with you.

Later,
Mike F

P.S.
So to clarify: It was a member of the SSFFF Executive Committee (you) who started the thread with Geiser's column attacking the American Sportfishing Association - not a member of SSFFF's Board.

Would you mind explaining why that makes a difference?

This post edited by flatts1b 12:36 PM 05/15/2008
 

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flatts1b wrote:
Man, no wonder why everyone outside of NJ that I talk to can't work with you.

For the record, I'm NOT from N.J., and have several ideological differences with Tony, but I have ALWAYS found him to be ethical, honest, above board and gentile in all my dealings with him; none of which attributes I can attach to the author of the above quote.
 

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Your ignorance is your bliss, Mike...

flatts1b wrote:
But Mr. Curcio, doesn't Tony sign your paychecks?

No, Mr. Flaherty, he doesn't, nor has he ever.

Once again your flagrant ingorance and misinformed presumption preceeds and betrays you, Mr. Flaherty. I do not, nor have I EVER, been paid a PENNY by Tony Bogan OR by the by the Recreational Fishing Alliance. My involvement with those organizations is strictly motivated by my lifelong pursuit of recreational fishing, both as an avocation and as a profession, and my desire to see that cultural tradition extend to younger generations.

I do, however, represent New York recreational fishing interests, which representation arises, once again, from my lifelong association with the people I represent...an association that began long before my career as an attorney. And, yes, I do get paid to do that...which is by the way quite frankly none of your business. Not that I owe you (ESPECIALLY you) or anyone else an explanation of why I do what I do.

I know in your little world, Mike, you like to portray a group of Mom & Pop businesses scrapping for their very existence as "big money", but believe me, I could make a lot more money selling out and lobbying for the anti-fishing groups, which, as Nils has so skillfully shown, is REALLY where the "big money" lives, and which is what some of those you associate yourself with have apparently done (MikeJD...
)

I know you would like to paint me as some cigar-smoking fat-cat sitting behind a mahogany desk - but the people that know me and pay for my services know me better than that, and that is all that matters to me - which is why they trust me to do this work for them in the first place. Your ill-informed and warped opinion of me, or of those I represent, means no more to me (or them) than "dung I scrape from my boots." I for one choose to stick with causes I believe in. This trait is clearly something you are not acquainted with, Mike...it's called PERSONAL INTEGRITY.

Stick to what you know Mike...which again appears not to be much.


This post edited by sealaw 04:23 AM 05/16/2008
 

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Always follow the money - that goes for everyone

quote:

Sealaw wrote:
I do not, nor have I EVER, been paid a PENNY by Tony Bogan OR by the by the Recreational Fishing Alliance.

Thank you for answering my question.

I wonder if the same can be said for Ray Boagan? It seems that what passes as recreational advocacy in NJ is as much a family business as chartering.

quote:

Sealaw wrote:

I for one choose to stick with causes I believe in. This trait is clearly something you are not acquainted with, Mike...it's called PERSONAL INTEGRITY.

You clearly have not been paying attention and have no clue. I am loyal to good ideas and whoever I have common ground with on those ideas.

I didn't leave the RFA. It left me. And I'm not the only one.

Have a good day,
Mike F.

This post edited by flatts1b 06:20 AM 05/16/2008
 

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quote:
believe me, I could make a lot more money selling out and lobbying for the anti-fishing groups, which, as Nils has so skillfully shown, is REALLY where the "big money" lives, and which is what some of those you associate yourself with have apparently done (MikeJD... )

Wow!

If you had half a clue about MichaelJD's values, you would know how absurd your claim really is. Petty too.

I mean WOW!
 
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