ANY INFO ON THE JAMAICAs OFFSHORE SEABASS TRIP-
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I have been on a few of those trips. You can bail large sea Bass four at a time most of the time. Problems come up at strong currents when 20 oz will not hold bottom. Even though its an 18 hour trip you really only get about four hours of fishing between the length of travel and anchoring. Most of the time you are fishing off Delaware and Atlantic city. They say its 80 miles out, but really the boat runs south. I have checked it with a GPS, even though they say don't bring one aboard. I am not stealing any spots, I would just like to know where I am if the boat sinks. The crew is outstanding, they do there best to make it a good trip.
Jwall thank you for the info, but i was looking for a current report....by the way, between you, me and this board, if you are ever caught with a GPS Unit on a offshore wreck trip, it would be confiscated, and most likely not returned. It is ABOUT STEALING SPOTS and AREAS where the fish setup at different times of the year. I am running a offshore wreck trip this weekend with one of the Sheepshead Bay party boats, and if i caught you with a GPS Unit, i guarentee, that this would not have a happy ending. And it would not matter for you, to know where you are if the boat sank. It matters to the Captain, to know where his vessel is, and to prevent something like this happening. A word to the wise... do not be caught in Montauk or any other port with a GPS Unit on yourself, before boarding the vessel. All you should worry about, once you pay your fare, is to catch fish while out on the deck....leave the locations to the guys up in the wheelhouse.
EC NEWELL MAN*
EC NEWELL MAN*
Does it really matter where you are when the ship sinks? With the seas the Jamaica sometimes fishes in, the life boats won't be worth D***..put your head between your legs and....
Eagle Crew Newell Man: I don't know about any recent trips if thats what your asking... but I have been on them b4....insane. By my standards at least. triple header sixes on occasion.
Eagle Crew Newell Man: I don't know about any recent trips if thats what your asking... but I have been on them b4....insane. By my standards at least. triple header sixes on occasion.
Mytiju...i heard that they may have went seabass fishing, but more likely it was a tuna trip. And yes, i know that at certain times in the winter, the fishing is insane, and thats the way good seabass fishing should be.
EC NEWELL MAN*
EC NEWELL MAN*
I'm not trying to fan any flames, and I certainly understand that the captain of a party boat wouldn't want anyone to bring a GPS aboard. However, confiscation of the property of another is something that is generally prosecutable. Is that true when the confiscation occurs on the water? Does the distance from shore where the confiscation occurs affect the legality of the act? Is there some sort of exemption from normal laws?
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Seajay,
Assuming that the boat is 3+ miles from shore the only laws that apply are federal laws. I'm sure there is a federal law against stealing, i.e. confiscation without color if the law and without compensation. But as a practical matter how are you going to prove it?
Assuming that the boat is 3+ miles from shore the only laws that apply are federal laws. I'm sure there is a federal law against stealing, i.e. confiscation without color if the law and without compensation. But as a practical matter how are you going to prove it?
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I heard from a friend of mine that something like 10 years ago, he was boarding the Starstream out of freeport and one of the mates or Capt. said outright to the crew standing on the dock, that
"If they find a Portable Loran Unit or GPS (at the time there were more lorans than GPS') while fishing offshore, they will confiscate the unit and return to shore-regardless of the fishing."
I could imagine what would happen to the poor guy with the GPS if the boat turned back and the fishing was great. He would have to be held in safe custody.
"If they find a Portable Loran Unit or GPS (at the time there were more lorans than GPS') while fishing offshore, they will confiscate the unit and return to shore-regardless of the fishing."
I could imagine what would happen to the poor guy with the GPS if the boat turned back and the fishing was great. He would have to be held in safe custody.
EC, it's a little early. I try to make the trek at least once a year and typically it cranks up around Christmas. The fishing is generally excellent, with fish averaging about 2 - 3 pounds and plenty of jumbos mixed in. Doggies and current can be your enemies. I don't love the boat. There are only 15 bunks and Bogan over loads the boat. If the weather is nice, there can be 80 people on board, with people sleeping under benches, on the floor, etc. I don't know if it's my bad luck or not, but every time I go, there are a few fares that get sloppy drunk too. Despite all of this, it is definitely a worthwhile trip to take. Besides seabass, I have seen good pollack action, some big white hake, an odd cod and some of the biggest porgies I've ever seen (and I used to fish all summer with Buddy Dorman on the Viking Skipper).
Gamakatsu
Gamakatsu
Gamakatsu, thanks for a good synopsis on what to expect on a Jamaica offshore bottom trip. Decent to excellent fishing depending on the time of the year, and the conditions. And usually the fishing starts to heat up by the middle of December. These trips are not for the novice bottom fishermen, and you must expect a long day, under less then the most comfortable conditions.
What i wanted was a current report if they made it out last weekend. One of our members on this board, posted that he was going out, and i just wanted to hear from him how he did.
Grady Sailfish, you are correct about what Richie Kessinger would say, before leaving the dock on his offshore cod trips. They would sometimes, take a look through bags and coolers as you boarded the vessel. He would also tell his customers, that he would 'stick them in the mud' for the remaining time of the trip, if someone did bring a small portable loran, or toss something into the water, if Richie saw a boat trying to run him down. I do know of one person, who did bring a loran with him on a trip, but his loran could not lock in, since he was inside the boat. DUMB to say the least.
SeaJay, this is a good question, since the TAKING of PROPERTY BY FORCE is a robbery. But on the water, a master/ Captain of a vessel has very broad powers, that are intendended to maintain the safety of the vessel, and the well being of the passengers and crew. The difference once you pass into federal waters which is from 3 miles off a states high water mark, is that you can be prosecuted in a Federal court, instead of the states court.
I do not know of any case where a loran/GPS unit was confiscated from a customer, and this issue was brought to a court. I do know that loran/GPS locations have been ruled by a Florida court a number of years ago, as intellectual property. In a particular case, a charter boats loran book was stolen, and photocopied. The individual who eventually got caught was successfully prosecuted and fined, since the captain who had his book stolen claimed, that his numbers where he fished, were gathered over many years, and was the basis for his business....thus, by having his book photocopied, it would cause harm and effect future earnings, since this privileged information would be available to others.
We do know that their are now many places to get fishing locations extremely easily. Books, charts and internet sites now give the exact locations to many spots. Use these as a basis for starting your own book. Everyone in the wreck fishing business learns from the ground up. The more you out are on the water, the more familiar you get with the bottom in your area. And with special vector/bathymetric software now available for a reasonable price, it makes finding particular areas of bottom so much easier.
I realize that this topic got skewed to the bringing of portable electronic locations devices aboard party and charter boats, but this is something, that really should be a 'no brainer' when you make a offshore wreck trip. Leave those devices at home, and if you want to know where you are fishing, become a regular on these trips, and ask the mate. It is no big deal to ask where a vessel is fishing and even some captains will tell you if asked. This is the best advice i can give you about this topic.
EC NEWELL MAN*
What i wanted was a current report if they made it out last weekend. One of our members on this board, posted that he was going out, and i just wanted to hear from him how he did.
Grady Sailfish, you are correct about what Richie Kessinger would say, before leaving the dock on his offshore cod trips. They would sometimes, take a look through bags and coolers as you boarded the vessel. He would also tell his customers, that he would 'stick them in the mud' for the remaining time of the trip, if someone did bring a small portable loran, or toss something into the water, if Richie saw a boat trying to run him down. I do know of one person, who did bring a loran with him on a trip, but his loran could not lock in, since he was inside the boat. DUMB to say the least.
SeaJay, this is a good question, since the TAKING of PROPERTY BY FORCE is a robbery. But on the water, a master/ Captain of a vessel has very broad powers, that are intendended to maintain the safety of the vessel, and the well being of the passengers and crew. The difference once you pass into federal waters which is from 3 miles off a states high water mark, is that you can be prosecuted in a Federal court, instead of the states court.
I do not know of any case where a loran/GPS unit was confiscated from a customer, and this issue was brought to a court. I do know that loran/GPS locations have been ruled by a Florida court a number of years ago, as intellectual property. In a particular case, a charter boats loran book was stolen, and photocopied. The individual who eventually got caught was successfully prosecuted and fined, since the captain who had his book stolen claimed, that his numbers where he fished, were gathered over many years, and was the basis for his business....thus, by having his book photocopied, it would cause harm and effect future earnings, since this privileged information would be available to others.
We do know that their are now many places to get fishing locations extremely easily. Books, charts and internet sites now give the exact locations to many spots. Use these as a basis for starting your own book. Everyone in the wreck fishing business learns from the ground up. The more you out are on the water, the more familiar you get with the bottom in your area. And with special vector/bathymetric software now available for a reasonable price, it makes finding particular areas of bottom so much easier.
I realize that this topic got skewed to the bringing of portable electronic locations devices aboard party and charter boats, but this is something, that really should be a 'no brainer' when you make a offshore wreck trip. Leave those devices at home, and if you want to know where you are fishing, become a regular on these trips, and ask the mate. It is no big deal to ask where a vessel is fishing and even some captains will tell you if asked. This is the best advice i can give you about this topic.
EC NEWELL MAN*
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Guns banned on planes. Drugs and alcohol banned on boats. It must somehow be legal to confiscate contraband. Back to the subject.
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EC Newell Man,
Are there any spots open on the trip? If so what time does the boat leave and what time does it get back. I am thinking I shall possibly go on the trip. The Royal Sunshine is a nice big boat.
Are there any spots open on the trip? If so what time does the boat leave and what time does it get back. I am thinking I shall possibly go on the trip. The Royal Sunshine is a nice big boat.
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My two cents on the topic of hand held GPS units. While I am not an expert in Maritime Law, I am an attorney. The captain of a vessel has the right to set the policy on his boat but that does not give him the right to commit crimes. He has the right to prohibit the use of such instruments and it is common knowledge that these devices are not welcome aboard party boats in this day of high competition. I see no reason why a captain cannot insist that the passenger not bring it aboard, or if already at sea, why he could not prevent its use. He cannot, however destroy someone else's property. This is a crime on land, at sea or in the air. The analogy of a firearm is not a good one under the law - way different. When I was a mate on a party boat years ago we used to have police officers come aboard straight from work. Most of them would ask the captain to safeguard there weapons while at sea, and when we got back to the dock the guns were returned. This was done as a convenience for the patron. I was aboard the Helen H last spring when I saw a passenger playing with a hand held GPS unit. Being a former mate on party boats and an avid fan of Joe's operation I told Joe about it. He handled it about as perfectly as possible. He told the passenger that he did not permit this on his boat and that he would hold the unit until they got back to the dock whereby it would be returned. Because he did it in such a gentlemanly fashion without embarrassing the patron in front of the other passengers the patron complied. Interestlingly, Joe commented that he has been withness to occassions when captains of other boats put the unit in the microwave for 3 minutes before returning it to the passenger. He of course did not do this.
The Royal Sunshines offshore SeaBass trip will leave at 11pm Saturday night and return NOV 3 Sunday night. Fare is 100 dollars. Spots are available, and i can tell you there will be a lot of room on this vessel which is 120 feet long. You can contact Joe Lind Sr. at the boat 718-945-6931. This will be a long range trip from Sheepshead Bay and i am looking forward to running this trip.
Goliath, you are correct with the taking of anyones property being a crime. Joe handled the situation correctly. I do know that this would of been handled differently by Joe years ago, especially when he was running his wreck trips out of the Bay. And i have heard stories of captains sticking these units in the microwave...and you do not need 3 minutes to fry the circuit boards inside these units. A touchy situation to say the least.
EC NEWELL MAN*
Goliath, you are correct with the taking of anyones property being a crime. Joe handled the situation correctly. I do know that this would of been handled differently by Joe years ago, especially when he was running his wreck trips out of the Bay. And i have heard stories of captains sticking these units in the microwave...and you do not need 3 minutes to fry the circuit boards inside these units. A touchy situation to say the least.
EC NEWELL MAN*
cooler pic
It was real warm last year. Fished in shirt sleeves in Feb and March. The big jamaica post reports on his web site. If there are none you can take a guess about the fishing. The fishing will be bad if the fish are moving that week from the inshore grounds to the offshore grounds. I've been on that boat in some really nasty seas and still bailed fish. Good luck to the guys with newell reels my arms aren't that strong.
It was real warm last year. Fished in shirt sleeves in Feb and March. The big jamaica post reports on his web site. If there are none you can take a guess about the fishing. The fishing will be bad if the fish are moving that week from the inshore grounds to the offshore grounds. I've been on that boat in some really nasty seas and still bailed fish. Good luck to the guys with newell reels my arms aren't that strong.
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NEWELLMAN ,Sorry to get off the subject, but just two weeks ago , while fishing a small piece to the west of Debs, I noticed a boat with 3 guys circling other boats anchored east of me, on the reef, I could,nt imagine what they were doing, till they headed straight for me. He got real close and I finally exploded "what the **** are you doing?"This guy sais you don,t own the ocean, When I realized, there wasn,t a fishing rod on the boat, he had a hand held gps. and was stealing guys spots by locking numbers when he got right next to our boat. This guy robbed from five boats, what probably took years of hard work and searching in one afternoon. So on that note I apologize for interupting your post, but could,nt agree with you more, that this is nothing less than stealing and getting a g.p.s. nuked is getting off easy, since it has no place there period, and ignorance is a pretty poor excuse!
NEWELLMAN ,Sorry to get off the subject, but just two weeks ago , while fishing a small piece to the west of Debs, I noticed a boat with 3 guys circling other boats anchored east of me, on the reef, I could,nt imagine what they were doing, till they headed straight for me. He got real close and I finally exploded "what the **** are you doing?"This guy sais you don,t own the ocean, When I realized, there wasn,t a fishing rod on the boat, he had a hand held gps. and was stealing guys spots by locking numbers when he got right next to our boat. This guy robbed from five boats, what probably took years of hard work and searching in one afternoon. So on that note I apologize for interupting your post, but could,nt agree with you more, that this is nothing less than stealing and getting a g.p.s. nuked is getting off easy, since it has no place there period, and ignorance is a pretty poor excuse!
You don't own the ocean
Newellman, There are two sides to every story. First if someone is worried about the boat sinking and being lost carry an epirb they have come way down in price. Second us three guys are divers. None of those spots are private like no clue told us. That was the Fran S. The DEC will give you gps numbers for all of those lumps and wrecks in that area. They have a list of them. The diving community also shares their numbers on the well known spots. Some of the other spots are guarded. A few in new Jersey but many of the secret spots are way offshore 30 to 40 miles out. We were not interested in diving the rock piles only the wrecks so we did not circle the other boats anchored. We only circled three areas the pipe barge, and then the Fran S then an unnamed barge. This was to let the guys who were fishing that drop know that there is an empty hole in the center that they need to fish the edge. We looked at the iberia (another one of your private numbers I suppose)and it too had a boat on it. When the party boat the ladyJ pulled off the pipe barge it was time to anchor up on the pipe barge. No hand held GPS on this boat only a mounted one. The captain use to commercial fish and knows when he is in the area by using land ranges anyway. No new wrecks were discovered that day. There are very few secret wrecks in the debs area anyway. Many reef patches and lumps yes. You don't own the ocean or those not so private private numbers and it doesn't mean that we can't circle around looking for other pieces. The boat mere bag of shells acknowledge the dive flag but dropped his anchor anyway where the divers were in the water due to the scope in the line. A few minutes later he decided to leave. As a charter captain he should know better.
Newellman, There are two sides to every story. First if someone is worried about the boat sinking and being lost carry an epirb they have come way down in price. Second us three guys are divers. None of those spots are private like no clue told us. That was the Fran S. The DEC will give you gps numbers for all of those lumps and wrecks in that area. They have a list of them. The diving community also shares their numbers on the well known spots. Some of the other spots are guarded. A few in new Jersey but many of the secret spots are way offshore 30 to 40 miles out. We were not interested in diving the rock piles only the wrecks so we did not circle the other boats anchored. We only circled three areas the pipe barge, and then the Fran S then an unnamed barge. This was to let the guys who were fishing that drop know that there is an empty hole in the center that they need to fish the edge. We looked at the iberia (another one of your private numbers I suppose)and it too had a boat on it. When the party boat the ladyJ pulled off the pipe barge it was time to anchor up on the pipe barge. No hand held GPS on this boat only a mounted one. The captain use to commercial fish and knows when he is in the area by using land ranges anyway. No new wrecks were discovered that day. There are very few secret wrecks in the debs area anyway. Many reef patches and lumps yes. You don't own the ocean or those not so private private numbers and it doesn't mean that we can't circle around looking for other pieces. The boat mere bag of shells acknowledge the dive flag but dropped his anchor anyway where the divers were in the water due to the scope in the line. A few minutes later he decided to leave. As a charter captain he should know better.
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