[chinacat]

I'm planning on getting 2 new batteries and keep going back and forth on what type to get. I run a 200HP Yamaha and Combo GPS/FF and VHF. Some days I run the livewell or the washdown pump or pump out the fish boxes or all 3. I have a standard 3way battery switch and it's worked fine for 6yrs so I'm not looking to change. Every trip I alternate batteries. The 2 original batteries I have are marine cranking batteries rated @ 625 MCA. I put about 100hrs. I was all set to go back with 2 Deep cycle Batteries.

West Marine has Dual Purpose Batteries.
Anybody familiar with them?
Any advantage of them over Deep cycles?

You out there Capt Brad?????

 

[Bigkeepers]

The important thing with batteries is the amp hours. To run a lot of electronics and pumps on and off while fishing for a few hours you need amp hours. Looking at West Marine's site the Group 24 Dual Purpose has 65Ah and 650 MCA. Group 27 is a bit bigger in size and has 80Ah and 745 MCA. You need the cranking amps to spin that starter. But they don't have a lot of amp hours behind them. Even their website says a battery for frequent starts and light demands while at anchor. So like Capt. Ed said if you run on both batteries at the same time you should be able to handle the load of all your accessories. If you're only running a few things like the VHF and GPS, the bow lights and stuff, using one battery or the other will be fine.

Amp hours is the amount of amps a battery can put out for 20 hours and still have a voltage of 10.5V or 1.75V per cell (6 cells x 2V per cell = 12 volts.) So a 100Ah battery can put out 5 amps continuously for 20 hours.

You need to see what the deep cycles can do and what the dual purpose ones can do. It's all right there on the labels.

 

[loonzter]

650 MCA sounds very low for a 200 HP, I know this is what you've been using but I just got a Merc 115 and was told by the installer that the manufacturer recommends 1000 MCA. I have a starting battery and a dual purpose battery (deep cycle), the starting battery, I'm told should be used for starting not to run all your electrical components while at anchor. I'm not sure how I feel about leaving the switch in the 'both' position all the time. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a 2nd battery in case the 1st one goes south? In 'both' mode if one battery isn't functioning properly it will drain both of them, if you try to start the motor and it won't crank over then what do you do?? (Sea Tow).

 

[chinacat]

My Yamaha manual says minimimum MCA is 325.
Like I said, the 2 original ones are 625 MCA.
I never ran them on "both", only 1 or the other,& would leave it on all day quite often while drifting for fluke in the ocean or wherever to run the VHF and GPS/FF. I also would run the livewell, washdown, pump out the in deck fish boxes etc whenever necessary with NO PROBLEMS!! I got 5 full seasons like that and now I'm 1/2 way through a 6th so I'm confident the size of the batteries and the system itself are just fine.
I'm looking for specific info on Starting vs. Deep Cycle vs. Dual Purpose and makes.

At this point I'm leaning towards Interstate Deep Cycle's that have an MCA rating of 675.

 

[Musella]

Take a llok at costco.. they have a few marine batteries (not on costco.com) I got mine there and saved a bundle

 

[Fishbust]

Interstates are great...

chinacat wrote:
My Yamaha manual says minimimum MCA is 325.
Like I said, the 2 original ones are 625 MCA.
I never ran them on "both", only 1 or the other,& would leave it on all day quite often while drifting for fluke in the ocean or wherever to run the VHF and GPS/FF. I also would run the livewell, washdown, pump out the in deck fish boxes etc whenever necessary with NO PROBLEMS!! I got 5 full seasons like that and now I'm 1/2 way through a 6th so I'm confident the size of the batteries and the system itself are just fine.
I'm looking for specific info on Starting vs. Deep Cycle vs. Dual Purpose and makes.

At this point I'm leaning towards Interstate Deep Cycle's that have an MCA rating of 675.

It is the newer motors that are 'cranking amp hungry'.

Dual voltage are probably like a sailboat that planes and tows a waterskiier.....not very good at either.

Crankers are that, crankers with less reserve capacity.

I use all deep cycles. Longest reserve capacity. Group 27 tons of cranking amps and reserve. I use 27's out of habit from being use to the old outboards with charge coils. Todays outboards, like my new EFI's, have 40 amps alternators, grp 24's would likely do fine if the cranking amps were there.

Sounds like you have a handle on how to use your batts and batt switches, so I would say stick with what you have been using and what you have been doing.

 

[chinacat]

THANKS!!

Thanks Guys!!
Those are the kind of helpful, informative answers I was looking for!!!!

 

[Cmonsters]

Just let a little common sense apply. Electricity isnt really all that complicated.

UNLESS you have a huge amount of electronics and accessories that you will be using WHILE RUNNING: Think this way...

While running, your engine should be putting out around 14.4 volts or so (with no load-no electronics, no accessories-not to say run with no electronics, just saying thats the voltage with nothing on).

What I do is: while RUNNING always have my battery switch to BOTH. This ensures both batteries are brought up to full charge. Once I reach my destination I shut down and switch to one battery, and there it stays, my electronics and accessories running on that one battery- I will occasionally re-start the engine every so often(without switching back to both) to bring that battery charge back up. This leaves me with the other battery being still FULLY charged and ready for a nice ballsy start should I need one. Every trip I'll alternate which battery is stand by and which is active so as to not degrade one or the other too fast.

This post edited by Cmonsters 08:32 AM 07/28/2008

 

[MakoMike]

Just to complicate things even more, have you considered gel cells or AGM batteries? They both have significant advantages over tradional lead/acid wet cells.

 

[chinacat]

YIKES!!!

MakoMike wrote:
Just to complicate things even more, have you considered gel cells or AGM batteries? They both have significant advantages over tradional lead/acid wet cells.

I haven't even thought about that route yet Mike.
My gut feeling is that those would be more costly and I'm not sure that the cost would outweigh the fact that I've gotten almost 6 years out of the standard ones I use.

How do you re-charge those types of batteries after the season when you remove them from the boat? Do they even need to be re-charged? Would I also need to invest in a different type of charger????

 

[fishie1]

Here is a great link that contains most of what you'll want to know about batteries . . . .

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

 

[MakoMike]

chinacat wrote:
MakoMike wrote:
Just to complicate things even more, have you considered gel cells or AGM batteries? They both have significant advantages over tradional lead/acid wet cells.


I haven't even thought about that route yet Mike.
My gut feeling is that those would be more costly and I'm not sure that the cost would outweigh the fact that I've gotten almost 6 years out of the standard ones I use.

How do you re-charge those types of batteries after the season when you remove them from the boat? Do they even need to be re-charged? Would I also need to invest in a different type of charger????

Most chargers, especially the newer ones can accomodate both Gel Cells and AGM batteries. Both offer "mount anywhere" ability and significantly higher CCA ratings for the same size battery.

 

[Mad Mahi]

If you are going to invest in the 'newer' technology, AGM is the way to go.

They do not require a special charger as GEL cells do.

They can withstand an overcharge that would fry a regular lead acid and severely reduce the service life of a gel. If drawn completely down, they will recharge quicker as they can be 'juiced'. They also recover much quicker than lead or gel in normal crank/charge cyles. And they can be drawn down as often if not more, than a deep cycle. Most have higher CCA Ratings than Deep Cycles.

They discharge at rates much slower than lead acid or gel, and hardly ever need maintenance charges in winter storage or if not used for weeks. They can withstand shock and vibration well above what a lead acid can tolerate. If cracked they do not leak, and actually could be mounted upside down (why would any one do that?).

The negatives are cost and weight.

If considering switching to AGM, buy rectangular shaped ones and not the "6 pack" shaped ones. The rectangular ones have been proven to contain more surface area of glass matting (more storage reserve) and draw more evenly across the "cells".

In CHINACAT's situation, based on his experience, I would venture to say that AGM might be a rare case of overkill.Getting a good 5+ years of trouble free service based on his use and habits will be REAL hard to improve on.

As far as 2 battery installation goes, it is always better to run on one and alternate. Either switch batteries every other trip or use the inbound/outbound rotation.

If spiking is a concern on startup, invest in a 'power conditioner" that will supplement the low voltage spike during motor start up, to prevent electronics from rebooting or going dead. One such device which works well is NEWMAR's STARTGUARD. Better to have that, than to ruin a perfectly good battery by running it in tandem with a bad one. Particualrly if you are far from home!

This post edited by Mad Mahi 05:46 PM 07/28/2008

 

[Bigkeepers]

You never stated what year your Yami is Chinacat. If its an older two stroke model don't bother with AGM or Gel. You won't need them.

 

[chinacat]

Bigkeepers wrote:
You never stated what year your Yami is Chinacat. If its an older two stroke model don't bother with AGM or Gel. You won't need them.

Yep, I didn't. It's an '03.

 

[Bigkeepers]

If it is an EFI motor with a computer and stuff make sure you take those wing nuts and wing them in the garbage. Replace them with the proper size hex nuts and lock washers. One thing to consider when buying batteries from Sears or Costco or someplace else that sells a "marine" battery, those batteries are not always made with the same quality internal construction as batteries that you buy from Marinas or West Marine or where ever. Marine batteries are supposed to be built strong enough to withstand the bouncing and pounding they take from being installed in a boat. Car batteries won't be able to handle that and the plates inside can be damaged and short out the entire thing. So the Interstate battery that Sears buys is probably not as good as the one a marina buys. Home Crapo does the same thing with everything they sell, especially their power tools.

 

[639722]

Capt Ed III wrote:
chinacat wrote:
My Yamaha manual says minimimum MCA is 325.
Like I said, the 2 original ones are 625 MCA.
I never ran them on "both", only 1 or the other,& would leave it on all day quite often while drifting for fluke in the ocean or wherever to run the VHF and GPS/FF. I also would run the livewell, washdown, pump out the in deck fish boxes etc whenever necessary with NO PROBLEMS!! I got 5 full seasons like that and now I'm 1/2 way through a 6th so I'm confident the size of the batteries and the system itself are just fine.
I'm looking for specific info on Starting vs. Deep Cycle vs. Dual Purpose and makes.

At this point I'm leaning towards Interstate Deep Cycle's that have an MCA rating of 675.

interstate is a good brand, also, delco & exide, with delco getting my nod. i recommend to leave switch on "both" batteries always so not to damage electronics. my gps & radar systems were quite expensive & that keeps them safe.
if you're worried about one bad battery ruining your dual charging system, just keep your eye on the ammeter. you should always be checking all the gauges anyway. when 2 batteries are normal, the gauge will indicate a certain charge spec. when one battery goes bad, there will be a slightly different(lower voltage) ammeter reading from normal operation. also, you should be able to tell if one battery is weakening by the sound of the starter. the engine will not turn with the same speed as normal. it is noticeable, you just need to listen & notice the signs of your boat. the majority of the time you will "hear" the bad battery on the initial start when you first arrive at your boat.
you don't need to be an engineer to figure this out. just look & listen to the normal signs of your own boat.

-ken



Then why on earth would you have 2 batteries if you are going to leave the switch on both?

The proper answer is to buy a combiner for $50 so both batteries charge while engine is running OR being charged by a charger, then seperates the batteries while no charge present.

If you must use a switch (and I do not), then by all means only keep it on 1 battery or a time.

Leaving it to both to "protect" your electronics is absurd.

In my single O/B setup, I have a starting battery which ONLY the engine is connected to and a group 27 Interstate Deep cycle battery which powers EVERYTHING else. I have a Yadina C100 combiner.

Even if I run my deep cycle house battery down (which I haven't yet), I still have a fully charged starting battery to start my engine and the charging process for the deep cycle.

 

[DarthBaiter]

mikeyboyw wrote:
Capt Ed III wrote:
chinacat wrote:
My Yamaha manual says minimimum MCA is 325.
Like I said, the 2 original ones are 625 MCA.
I never ran them on "both", only 1 or the other,& would leave it on all day quite often while drifting for fluke in the ocean or wherever to run the VHF and GPS/FF. I also would run the livewell, washdown, pump out the in deck fish boxes etc whenever necessary with NO PROBLEMS!! I got 5 full seasons like that and now I'm 1/2 way through a 6th so I'm confident the size of the batteries and the system itself are just fine.
I'm looking for specific info on Starting vs. Deep Cycle vs. Dual Purpose and makes.

At this point I'm leaning towards Interstate Deep Cycle's that have an MCA rating of 675.

interstate is a good brand, also, delco & exide, with delco getting my nod. i recommend to leave switch on "both" batteries always so not to damage electronics. my gps & radar systems were quite expensive & that keeps them safe.
if you're worried about one bad battery ruining your dual charging system, just keep your eye on the ammeter. you should always be checking all the gauges anyway. when 2 batteries are normal, the gauge will indicate a certain charge spec. when one battery goes bad, there will be a slightly different(lower voltage) ammeter reading from normal operation. also, you should be able to tell if one battery is weakening by the sound of the starter. the engine will not turn with the same speed as normal. it is noticeable, you just need to listen & notice the signs of your boat. the majority of the time you will "hear" the bad battery on the initial start when you first arrive at your boat.
you don't need to be an engineer to figure this out. just look & listen to the normal signs of your own boat.

-ken

Then why on earth would you have 2 batteries if you are going to leave the switch on both?

The proper answer is to buy a combiner for $50 so both batteries charge while engine is running OR being charged by a charger, then seperates the batteries while no charge present.

If you must use a switch (and I do not), then by all means only keep it on 1 battery or a time.

Leaving it to both to "protect" your electronics is absurd.

In my single O/B setup, I have a starting battery which ONLY the engine is connected to and a group 27 Interstate Deep cycle battery which powers EVERYTHING else. I have a Yadina C100 combiner.

Even if I run my deep cycle house battery down (which I haven't yet), I still have a fully charged starting battery to start my engine and the charging process for the deep cycle.

I'd still get a switch if i were you. What happens if your starter battery goes dead? Do you re-wire so you can start from the house battery?

On my single O/B, I have 3 batteries, on 2 three way switches all combined with 2 Yandia combiners. I also have a shore charger that is connectged to the starter battery as is the alt lead from the motor. The Yandia distributes the charge forom the shore charger and the motor.

It's not fool proof, but pretty darn close.

 

[jbukie]

Is it bad that the elctronics reboot when starting the engine?

 

[DarthBaiter]

jbukie wrote:
Is it bad that the elctronics reboot when starting the engine?
Yes...