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Guys,
After reading your replies, I think this is a very good argument!

Now lets get down to the specifics and allow me to ask you a few questions.

1) Do you think the 36" size limit was working?
2) How do you feel about the current (28") regulation?
3) What would you like to see changed?
4) Do you think every state should have the same size laws?

"Crazy" Alberto
 

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Good questions Al.

I believe the 36" limit killed to many female bass and caused an over abundance of smaller fish.
I deem the 36" limit a failure.

As far as the 28" limit goes I really cant see it helping the current situation.
But I also think it's to early to tell.

As for the other 2 questions.
I think each state NY, NJ, & CONN should have alternating limits, slots, bags.

Example Year-1

NJ 36" & up 1 fish per day
NY 28" to 36" 2 fish per day
Conn 20" to 28" 3 fish per day

Year-2
NJ 28" to 36" 2 fish per day
NY 20" to 28" 3 fish per day
Conn 36" & up 1 fish per day

And so on.

Keep Charter 2 @ 28" everywhere.

If you want to throw in a special tag for trophy fish when it's another
state's turn at the 36" and up then so be it. ( I would be against it)

Maybe this will help balance the population.
 

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"43% Of Anglers want maximum harvest of striped bass"

NO

43% of NOREAST READERS want maximum harvest. (I'll let somebody else post the demo of your readers)
100% of CCA members want maximum size
and 100% of Commercials want just to harvest.

So whats your point?
 

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Did 36" work?

Kinda, I think it preserved a large amount of breeders each season. Did this damage the rest of the stock by removing the big girls and leaving the immature fish. Thats the million dollar question. But IF the big girl wern't removed at all, we wouldn't be fighting over this.

BUT when the limit was 36" you heard of TONS of 30-40" fish being caught.

What do I think about 28"?

Well once it was lowered to 28" it took, what, a year for the tons of 30-40" fish to be replaced by tons of 24-32" fish. Think there is a coincidence?

What would I like to see? Do you really want to know?

Closed spawning seasons

A true slot, 36-40"

ONE FISH A DAY FOR EVERYBODY

Gamefish Status

east coast wide regulations (that answers your last question)
 

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I would favor 1 @ 36" coastwide. Better yet just a tag that would permit 4 or 5 per year over 36". Let them eat some other fish. I guess Im just a selfish elitist striper fisherman. I did keep 3 this year, one of which was deep hooked from an eel, so Im not a complete C&R fannatic. Unfortunatly I fear anglers, states, and all the various interests involved will never be able come to a consensus an this issue.


After reading Crash's post above (posting at same time) I like his suggestions better.


This message was edited by NJSurf on 12-3-01 @ 4:15 PM
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Mike P.

Our Online Poll is written so each browser can vote just once. Sure there?s a way around it, but my experience tells me that a small percentage of our users would have the ability to do so.

Crash,

Correct me if I?m wrong, but I am under the impression that our visitors are in fact recreational anglers. They?re not all members of recreational organizations or even conservationists, but they are by a vast majority, recreational anglers. Commercial fisherman have little reason to visit our website other than to start a good debate on our boards very once in a while. So even though you may disagree with the outcome of the poll, I believe it really should be taken seriously as a gauge for what people are thinking. In fact our polls have been taken into account in both the legislative and regulatory processes in the past, and if it?s good enough for them it?s good enough for me.

And while I agree with you that many CCA members would like to see a historical age structure, unfortunately there are only one thousand people in that organization here in NY, and fewer in NJ and CT, and with over 1,300,000 saltwater recreational anglers in the NY tri-state area, that is a very small sampling of what the majority wants. You may also be surprised to know that CCA can?t even get it?s member states to agree on how to get to where they want to be, similar to what were witnessing in this discussion.

I?m personally surprised by the results of the poll and that?s why I started this thread, but like it or not, I?m sure the data shows an accurate sampling of how people want the striped bass to be managed in the future.

Respectfully,
George R. Scocca
Publisher, Nor'east Saltwater
 

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I better watch my back after I say this, but I voted in favor of a maximum harvest. However, I must say that it should have read "Maximum SUSTAINABLE Harvest." A resource is not to be reserved for a limited number of elite anglers, but should made available for all those that chose to utilize it. We must remember that not all anglers fish 75 or more days a year and are not as skilled as those that do. As a matter of fact, this represents the vast majority of anglers. Why should the majority be shut out so that the elite minority can catch larger fish?(it's not even proven if 36" limit will allow this to happen anyway)

If we do go to a 36" limit, they should prohibit the use of line under 12 pound test. A 34" bass caught on line under 10 pound test will be burned out and stand little chance of survival after is is released. Why should a light tackle angler have the privilege of killing and wasting smaller fish, when others can not even eat them?

Gamakatsu
 

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Hi Al,

-I am against the 36 inch limit. It targets larger females while promoting genetically smaller fish.

-I like the 28 inch limit better because it distributes pressure to the males.

-I would like to see a slot limit similar to what is described above.

-I think that individual states should be able to manage fish species independant of each other, but under the guidance of NMFS. Atlantic fish species migrate between many states and face different pressures between them. I beleive that individual states can address these pressures better than the broad brush approach of federal regulation.

KNOTME,

I never understood why the DEC gave the charter industry a two fish limit. I guess that the charter industry just has a better political lobby. From you response, I guess you are a charter boat captain. How can you honestly beleive that keeping the charter industry at two fish per angler is the best way to "help balance the population"?

As a group, charter boat captains (theoretically) have the highest percentage of skilled anglers and spend the most amount of time out on the water. The group with the best skill, takes out multiple fares (1-40), on multiple trips per day, on multiple days of the week and gets to keep the most fish!!!!!! If charters were only allowed ONE fish per day, that would help the fish populations tremendously. You also suggest that the private fisherman deal with confusing and constantly changing regulations, while the charter industry enjoys a nice steady size and take limit. COME ON!!!!!! This regulation is the DEC's greatest failing.

I would like to know the charter industry's resoning behind this regulation. THEY WOULDN'T GET ENOUGH FARES???? There are many charter fisheries throughout the country who make a living on trips that are catch and release. Look at tarpon or snook fishing in Florida or trout fishing in the midwest. Besides, cash in your pocket should not be a factor in the management of a public resource.
 

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George, I'm not saying the numbers are wrong. they are probally very accurate.

But its like asking in a NRA mag if making a law to ban a sub machine gun is a good law. Alot of different people are looking at the same thing and seeing something different. Some are going to fight more for the principle then the gun.

Although you may find your poll numbers surprising, I don't at all.

Yes it would be the greatest accomplishment ever if one day we could take any size of bass responsibly because the stock was healthy enough to sustain it. Unfortunatly, right now there is NO debate that something is still not right with bass management and its role in our ocean. If I had all (heck just one even) of the answers, I'd be a very rich man. One thing we do know is that big fish are lacking in number and that roaming ranges have been reduced.

But hey, they're not disease ridden, or on the endanger species list so we've got to be doing something right.
 

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I think the 36" limit would be helpful.

I already play that on my boat now. If I keep any fish it has to be over 36".

When I see a 28" fish it just seems small to me when these fish grow to be so much larger.

All have their own opinions and that is great but I would like to see this fishery sustained for all others to come. "My kids".

Good luck to all Tarheel
 

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How would you all feel about a slot, I "keeper" and 1 trophy? Does Jersey do this already. Also, how many of us fish JUST for sport, I do, and I dont eat fish, cant stand the taste no matter what fish, or what preparation. How many others here "sport" fish and release. I have nothing against the taking of legal fish, I just dont need to. Anyone else???

ML
 

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I am with you on that end Mike. I also have no taste for fish and release everything I can. The only time I keep a fish is when it is legal size and obviously going to die anyway. In that situation I have many friends who want the fish.

I would also never begrudge another fisherman his right to keep fish for the table. I only question those who have to keep their limits all the time (50 porgies, 10 blues, 6 weakies) That is a lot of meat to clean and eat.

I also don't brag about releasing fish in my reports. On the other end, why is it necessary for anyone to brag about keeping their limit? It is not necessary either way.

Good luck to everyone, it looks like the game is back on out east.
 

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Doughboy

I understand you don't like the fact that charter boats can keep 2 bass per angler @ 28" but they were awarded that privilege.
This is not a hobby for them it's a livelihood.
They bass population as far as numbers of bass go is doing very well, It's the size distribution that is suffering.
If the D.E.C. and the N.M.F.S. thought the limit was to high I'm sure it would be different.

As far as your comment about comparing Florida charters to NY charters it's not the same.
Most of the patrons in Fla. are tourists while most of the patrons in the NY area are for the most part locals.
People who fish on charter boats in the NY area want to go home with fish to eat.
It's not likely you'll find tourist's in Fla dragging a 20 pound grouper back to their hotel room.

Bass are still a population of fish like many others every spring and fall anglers in our area fill coolers to the top with mackerel yet I don't hear any complaints about a possible over harvest. Mackerel are also still commercially netted. These fish are very important to the entire cycle of northeast fishing.

If you look at limits as a whole bass limits are very low.
 

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Fishing is their CHOSEN profession. That doesn't mean charter fisherman should get any special privelages. From the reports of charter captains I read here and on other sites, their fares catch and keep many 30 and 40 pound plus fish a year. Just through probability, with the amount of fishing man hours combined in the charter industry and the amount of fish caught, a lot of big fish are being elimated by charter boats.

One fish per man still provides plenty of meat. That one fish limit drives thousands of NY fisherman to spend millions on tackle and boats every year. I am sure that the charter industry would not be severley affected with the same limits.

Like you said "...they were awarded that privilage", and I congratulate them on having a better lobby than I do. Maybe next time around it will be different.
 

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knotme,

what are some good reasons for local sportfishing hobbyists to hire a charter/party/open boat for stripers?

1) they need or want to learn more about how to catch stripers.

2} they want to learn how to efficiently fish a
new area.

3) they don't have or don't want to have a suitable boat for the area the hired captain fishes.

4) they want to fish with more people than their own boat can safely handle.

5) they want to maximize the probability that they will catch a trophy striper, or at least a keeper.

what is a bad reason for local sportfishing hobbyists to hire a charter/party/open boat for stripers?

1) they want to be able to take two fish.

if a captain can't get fare paying customers for good reasons like the ones mentioned, and can only get fares because they can keep an extra fish, then that captain either needs better advertising or is simply not worth his salt.

set,
opinari
 

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Leaning toward slot limits - but still keeping the "take ratio" to 1 per day - per angler. Let's face it - most of us fish at least once a week(many of us much more then that).

A fish in the 30 inch plus range is more thn sufficent to feed the average family of 4 at least once or twice a week. The following week - you catch another.

As I have seen news articles that claim it is not safe to consume more then a 1/2 pound of bass per month out of the LI Sound west of Rocky Point due to high levels of PCB contamination. (Newsday article - there's a discussion somewhere in the archives in here on this) I don't know that you would want to consume large amounts of bass in the first place.

So if 1 30"er feeds a family of 4 at least once a week & DEC recommends not eating more then a 1/2 pound a month (# could be wrong - but close) why would you need to harvest more then 1 per day?

Me - if I've already got fish in the freezer - whatever I catch goes back regardless of the size.



This message was edited by wader on 12-4-01 @ 1:05 PM
 

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Doughboy maybe you don't understand the role of the charter boat.
Many boat anglers utilize the local charter boats to learn good fishing spots and techniques.
How many people do you know that learned to fish or started fishing on a party boat?
That would be a good pole for the Noreast front page.
"How many people learned to fish or started fishing on a party boat"?

As far as the big fish go I will not deny the fact that charter boats catch big fish but it's not always the case.
Some times a party boat will go out twice a day and have no keepers or very few.

How many recreational anglers catch fish over 30 lbs that you didn't hear about?
Does this mean they didn't get caught?

Plenty of Rec. fishermen catch big fish don't kid yourself.
There just good at keeping it under there hat.

Here's a good example I know of more than a few giants that were caught in the mud hole this year
how many pictures or posts did you see of those fish.
They bag plenty of giants in the hole every year but you rarely hear of those catches.

Oh by the way the next time you bump into a charter captain who's been chartering for
30 plus years you tell him to find a new job because he catches to many fish.

I'm glad to see you take conservation very seriously but charter captains are not the bad guys.
 

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What does learning the fishing spots and techniques have anything to do with keeping two fish? Fares would learn just as much by releasing the extra fish. They still saw what caught the fish and where. And you are right, that there are a lot of recreational fisherman out there who catch big fish also, but my point is, as a group the percentage is probably smaller and they can only keep the one for the day as opposed to two, which the charter boats can and do keep.

I don't fault the charter industry for this regulation. They are trying to protect their best interests. I blame the DEC for caving to their lobbiests, in lieu of sound management. I also don't blame charter captains for catching too many fish. Anyone who chooses to work in a job that is subject to government regulation has to accept the goverment regulations. In this case, they are. I feel the regualtions are wrong and I have already stated why.
 

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The fact of the matter is the additional fish is beneficial to the charter boat industry. A lot of people would choose not to patronize these boats knowing that they can only keep one fish. Due to financial reasons, most people are not lucky enough to be able to charter a boat week after week. By being able to keep two fish, they are able to put some additional fish in the freezer until the next time they go. In the grand scheme of striped bass consvervation, the additional fish does not amount to much at all, but it does help the charter fleet to make a living.

Regarding Flordia laws, take a look at the snapper/grouper laws and you will see an interesting exception there. Patrons of boats for hire, with bunks, that stay out more than 24 hours are permitted a multi day bag limit in their possession. This exception was rightfully created to protect the multi day party boats that fish the Dry Tortugas and the Gulf of Mexico.

Gamakatsu
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I would like to straighten out what I believe to be a misconception about the second fish that charter and party boat fares are now allowed to keep. That second fish was made available to ALL New Yorkers under the current Striped Bass Management Plan, as well as to every angler fishing the coastal striped bass stock. In fact, recreational anglers in every other state are fishing at a ?conservation equivalency? of two bass at 28-inches (that?s how other states implemented slot limits), and the only anglers not taking the second fish are New York private recreational anglers.

It was the choice of the New York recreational sector to keep it at one fish per angler per day, which I really don?t have a problem with, but what troubles me is that people somehow think that the same rule should apply to the charter and party boat industry which wanted the second fish. If the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission approved it, and every other state on the coast is fishing it?s maximum harvest, why single out the New York charter and party boat industry for doing the same thing and fishing well within the guidelines of the plan? Heck, NJ is fishing three fish per angler for everyone!

I should also point out that the NY charter and party boat industry is fishing at an even more restrictive measure than the rest of the coast in that they cannot posses any fish for the mate and captain. So a trip with 4 anglers and a captain and mate can now take eight fish, but the rest of the coast would have an equivalency of 12!

I?m sure some of you are thinking ?protect your advertisers,? but the numbers don?t lie and that second fish is having little if any negative effect on the overall fishery. Also remember this industry is nothing more than a taxi cab taking ?recreational anglers? to the fishing grounds ? the captains aren?t catching them - they aren?t even allowed to take a fish for themselves.

I think we should be looking at the gillnet by-catch in Maryland and the threat of the opening of the Hudson River spawning grounds, or the threat of the opening of the EEZ to netting again, not hook and line anglers fishing from a party or charter boat.

Respectfully,
George R. Scocca
Publisher, Nor'east Saltwater
 
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